Reloading Lead Bullets

[tfn41]

I'm reloading 38 special and 41 magnum using a Lee Load-Master press with carbide dies. Load data is below. I'm fairly new at this, and I have a question about the little metal shavings that seem to accumulate, particularly when loading 41. The lead bullets are from Missouri Bullet Company; their Hi-Tek coated .411 trooper. The shavings seem to be coming from pressing the bullet into the cartridge in stage 4 of the press. Should I be expanding the case mouth in stage 3? I'm not because the expanded rim of the case is catching the press die in stage 4. Do I need to tinker with it until I expand the case mouth in stage 3 just large enough to accept the bullet without shaving a tiny bit of lead off the side, but small enough that it will fit the bullet seat and feed die in station 4?

I'm not talking about a huge amount of lead being shaved off. Thicker than a hair, but not by much. Is this significant?

38 special
Federal brass (this is brass I saved from factory rounds I shot)
CCI #500 primers
Hornady 158gr. LRN bullets
3.8 - 4.0 gr. Unique

41 magnum
Starline brass (new brass, or shot once by me)
CCI #300 or Remington 2 1/2 primers
Missouri 215 Gr. Hi-Tek bullets
7.7 - 8.0 gr. Unique

[Snyper]

The case mouth should be flared just enough to allow the bullet to start without shaving anything off

[Nick_C_S]

The case mouth should be flared just enough to allow the bullet to start without shaving anything off.

This is true. ^^

However, with lead, coated, or even plated, that may be more flair than most realize.

I've been loading for a few decades now. And through that time, I've played with the entire spectrum of flair that is reasonable. Now the conventional wisdom is to only flair enough to just barely get the bullet started. The "logic" being that it imparts minimal metal fatigue and preserves the brass. But I happen to be of the mindset that brass is very flexible and can be flaired more than many realize, without fatigue. I'm not a metallurgist; but experience tells me this.

The net result is that when I flair my brass, it is very discernible and I can start a bullet atop with ease. I believe I flair more that most loaders and it has caused no problems. I tried to take pics for show n tell, but they just didn't come out well enough to capture the actual amount of flair.

Anyway, I would try more flair. And you might need to seat and crimp in separate steps.

[condor bravo]

The above two posts pretty much say it all. On occasions it may even be necessary to flare for jacketed bullets should they tend to crush the case mouth during seating. Some routinely flare for jacketed bullets anyway.

[tfn41]

Thanks fellas. I'll work on putting a little flare in the case mouth.

Yes, I seat and crimp in different steps. The factory crimp die is in the last station, #5.

Thanks again!

[stubbicatt]

I had a LoadMaster in the early 90s. It had issues with proper alignment of the dies with the cartridges. That rod gizmo assured really positive indexing for sure, but the cartridges did not line up with the dies due to a misalignment of the press. I no longer remember what I did to correct the issue, but it was an adjustment of some sort.

I wonder if OP's issue is a die issue or an alignment issue in the press itself.

To check this perhaps apply an adequate flare to your case mouth, remove the seater die, and see if the flared case readily enters the die opening. If it does when it is in your hand, but doesn't when it is in the press, perhaps your issue is other than the flare.

HTH

[mikld]

For a newish reloader having "shaving problems" I'd say put as much flare in the case mouths as you need to get a cleanly seated bullet. Most of the time a flared case that rubs the inside of the seating die causes no problems, as long as it goes in the die. Get food straight bullet seating now and worry about case life later (how many more reloadings can you get with minimal vs. enough flare? 5?, 8?) as brass is still readily available especially those two cartridges you mention. One caution I have; ferget a Lee factory crimp die for any revolver round, and use a plain old roll crimp die. BTDT and ruined a bunch of my lovingly sized lead bullets with the "post seating sizing feature" of the FCD...

[rclark]

My flair is just enough so that when I hand seat the bullet on top I can move it to the press (yes, I am still using a single stage after 35 years) without fear of it falling off. Another words it has started into the case. Any more than that is unnecessary. All I load is lead, not a jacketed handgun bullet in sight.

[Mauser69]

You are loading rimmed pistol cartridges with lead bullets - there is absolutely NO benefit to using the factory crimp die in that situation, and some potential for significant downside. It all depends on the specific dimensions of your cylinder throats and barrel grooves (along with the actual bullet size).

Lead bullets shoot best when the throats are as big or slightly bigger than the groove diameter, and the bullets sized to slightly bigger than the groove diameter (e.g., if you slug your barrel and the groove size is .357, you want to load .358 or .359 lead bullets). The factory crimp die does a post loading re-sizing of the entire round, and it often will be squeezing the lead bullets inside the case smaller than you want. It is certainly safe, but both accuracy and barrel leading can suffer dramatically in some guns.

If you are having any problem chambering loaded revolver rounds without using the FCD, then you are doing something else wrong. Typically it is caused by too much crimp, but can also easily be poor cylinder cleaning.

And you asked if the little bit of shaving was significant - YES, it is very significant. Make whatever adjustments are necessary to avoid ALL lead shaving.

[serf 'rett]

Avoid shaving the side of the bullet, especially those high priced Hi-Teks. I generally expand the case mouth enough that the bottom of the bullet will “fit” into the first 1/32” to 1/16” of the case.

Another thing to check is make sure you are not crimping the case before the bullet is fully seated. I avoid this problem by seating and crimping is separate steps.

[mehavey]

bullet ...“fit” into the first 1/32” to 1/16” of the case

^^^^^^^^ This^^^^^^^^^^
I usually say "thickness of a dime"

[stubbicatt]

Another thing to check is make sure you are not crimping the case before the bullet is fully seated. I avoid this problem by seating and crimping is separate steps.

said Serf Rett.

You know I think this is very good advice. Only thing is, I find that with revolvers and cast bullets with a crimping groove, where there is a good roll crimp in the first instance, and 45 ACP where I just barely a crimp, more an ironing out of the case mouth to be "straight" in the second instance, This isn't really necessary. Perhaps it just me, but especially with the revolvers, I think I get a more uniform crimp by seating and crimping in the same step--- but I don't crimp the daylights out of the bullets either.

I will also caution folks not to use the FCD with cast bullets, as in the resizing that happens as the case is withdrawn from the crimp die, the bullet inside runs a risk of being sized smaller than it was when seated. Worse, since the brass case has a little spring back in it, which the cast bullet doesn't, as the sizing ring passes over the outside of the case upon withdrawal from the FCD, and the bullet inside is squished smaller, not only do you end up with a bullet too small for the bore, but too small for the case, too. I have been able to sort of turn bullets inside a crimped case with thumb and finger pressure after running cast bullet cartridges through a FCD, in a 357 magnum. So there is no "neck tension" at all when I did this.

[44 AMP]

Other than their hand tools (particularly the GI decapper set) I'm NOT a fan of Lee products.

Don't have, won't have, and would never use the FCD. From what I read here, a few swear by them, the rest swear AT them.

setting your dies to properly crimp and not shave lead isn't rocket science, but it is a little more complex than "add water and stir".

Take a look at your expander. There should be two different diameters. The smaller part expands the inside of he case for proper bullet tension. The step (larger part) flares the case mouth. You should be able to expand your cases so you can set a bullet in the expanded mouth. IN, not on. In doesn't shave lead, ON does.

[Nick_C_S]

I'm NOT a fan of Lee products.

Neither am I.

Don't have, won't have, and would never use the FCD.

The Lee FCD is the exception to my above opinion.

From what I read here, a few swear by them, the rest swear AT them.

Agreed. I'm one who swears by them. I'll spare everybody the details of my opinion - as the subject has been beaten to death. Those who like them, will continue to like them. Those who don't will continue to not like them. It's all good. I know mikld's is in a landfill in southern Oregon That still cracks me up

Take a look at your expander. There should be two different diameters. The smaller part expands the inside of he case for proper bullet tension. The step (larger part) flares the case mouth. You should be able to expand your cases so you can set a bullet in the expanded mouth. IN, not on. In doesn't shave lead, ON does.

The best explanation for flairing I've ever read ^^.

Good post all round 44AMP.