What do you think of the 458 Win Mag

howiej · December 6, 2011, 10:25 PM

I had a custom one built a few years ago by a gunsmith in Sweet Home Oregon. I wanted a long range elk hammer. [I know you are already laughing] After a lot of research I came across the Barnes 350 Grain speer point bullet. Only 458 sp on the market. This gives the 458 a very long range with a lot of power. This gives 458 world a hole new look. See what you think. I love big bores.

kraigwy · December 6, 2011, 10:57 PM

It kicks but you can down load it with cast bullets and its pretty dern accurate. Or it is in my Ruger 77 in 458 WM

natman · December 7, 2011, 04:54 AM

The words "458 Win Mag" and "Long Range" don't belong together at all. The 458 is designed as a short range hammer for hunting BIG, dangerous game. The velocity is too low and the bullets too big for anything resembling long range work. Long range with 500 grain RN bullets is 100 yards.

A 350 grain spitzer will make it a longer range proposition than 500 grain round noses, but a MV of 2400 fps and modest BC will put it in a class with such "very long range" cartridges as the 180 grain 30/40 Krag and the 150 grain 30-30.

With a BC of .278 and a MV of 2400 and a 100 yard zero, the bullet will have dropped a manageable 6 inches at 200 yards and an not-so-manageable 23 inches (almost two feet) at 300. By 350 yards it's dropped a full yard. You won't want for power, but you'll want to keep the distances moderate.

Plug the numbers in here and you'll get the picture.

I used to hunt a bit with a 458 WM using a 350 grain RN before spitzers were available. It dropped a deer and a pig with authority, but I suspect you'll find that a 458 Mag rifle gets a bit heavy to drag up mountainsides in elk country. At least I did.

taylorce1 · December 7, 2011, 09:03 AM

If you know your rifle and load it should work very well for long range. Heck the .45-70 is still used as a long range rifle in BP matches and it doesn't push bullets as fast as a .458 Win Mag. If you purpose build your rifle with the right componets there is no reason you shouldn't be able to use it as a long range rifle.

natman · December 7, 2011, 12:47 PM

Quote:

If you know your rifle and load it should work very well for long range. Heck the .45-70 is still used as a long range rifle in BP matches and it doesn't push bullets as fast as a .458 Win Mag. If you purpose build your rifle with the right componets there is no reason you shouldn't be able to use it as a long range rifle.

It would work fine as long as the elk are accommodating enough to stand at a known distance. Otherwise, not so great.

If you really want to do this 458 long distance thing, try a 460 Weatherby. You can't do much about the BC limitations of the bullet, but it will flatten trajectories a bit when you launch it at 2900 fps. Don't ask me to sight it in for you. Ouch!

tim s · December 7, 2011, 01:20 PM

There's a reason most effective calibers for medium/large game have similar designs including effecient sharp shoulder cases, mid sectional density high BC slugs going at faster veloctiies insuring reliable terminal ballistics with good medium/long range ability to place bullets in vitals. Sorry..... this is really none of those things.

You can kill an elk with a truck but it ain't my first choice.

FrankenMauser · December 7, 2011, 01:41 PM

I agree. "Long Range" and ".458 Win Mag" don't belong in the same sentence.

If a long range "hammer" is the goal, .416 Rigby and .404 Jeffery is where I would start my search.

That being said... .458 Win Mag is a fine cartridge. It's very tame for a big bore, even with 'nasty' loads. It's such a pleasure to shoot, that I've hunted squirrels with a .458 WM Ruger M77.

JerryM · December 7, 2011, 03:07 PM

Don't know why anyone not hunting in Africa would want one. A .338 would be a better long range gun for elk or go to a .375. But a .458? I would not want it.
To each his own.
Jerry

csmsss · December 7, 2011, 05:45 PM

Oh, I don't know. Some of jus ust like rifles that make a big honking concussion.

Slamfire · December 7, 2011, 06:08 PM

About 20 years ago I got to fire a Ruger #1 in 458 Win Mag. I shot it from the sitting position because I figured shooting such a rifle from a rest would be suicidal.

The first round surprised me with the recoil. The second really hurt.

Hurt so much, I have not forgotten it.

My 375 H&H M70 is a pop gun in comparison.

I don’t like heavy recoil and a 458 has lots of heavy recoil.

Shoot one first or your rifle may end up in the Pawn Shop after the first twenty rounds.

Like all those S&W 500 Mags that end up back at the gunstore. People think having a hand cannon is fun and then they shoot it.

taylorce1 · December 7, 2011, 06:17 PM

Quote:

It would work fine as long as the elk are accommodating enough to stand at a known distance. Otherwise, not so great.

Elk are generally very accommodating at any range if they don't know you are there,unless they have been under tons of hunting pressure. I usually have time to range all the animals I take a shot at if I've done my job putting a stalk on them. I watched my mule deer buck I shot this year at less than 100 yards for about an hour before he stood up from his bed to where I had better than a head shot.

I watched as well several elk at 400 yards grazing peacefully this last season with no way to get closer without blowing them into the next unit. I could normally take that shot but I had a full value wind blowing from 9 o’clock. The shooting lanes were very tight as well, but it was mainly the wind that kept my finger off of the trigger. I watched them for several hours before I lost shooting light, left them there hoping to get the jump on them the next morning but it wasn’t to be.

My point while the .458 isn’t the most ideal it could be used. I think a Ruger #1 or other strong single shot action with a custom 30” tube with a brake on the end and canted base or 30mm tube scope with turrets could get the job done. Using a 500 grain Barnes TSX with a BC of .412 could reach out there and touch something.

Or you could set it up the same Ruger #1 with a rear Vernier tang sight and front globe like the Sharps LR rifles used in BP competition and play Quigley. If you throat the barrel long enough even with a 500 grain spitzer like the Barnes TSX you should be able to do better than 2100 fps with the powder capacity of the magnum case. That is quite a bit faster than the 1800 or so fps of the BP 45-70 with cast bullets.

pabuckslayer08 · December 7, 2011, 06:32 PM

I dont think its the choice I would choose. Much better options like the .338 and the .375. If I was wanting a 600+ yard elk gun it would be a .338 Lapua for sure. But since Im not into the long range deal I opted for even less clear down to the 30-06 shooting 180s out of it

old roper · December 7, 2011, 06:55 PM

howiej (Rick V), From both articles you have lot of experience having things build the last 30yrs. Most sites I get on they always ask question before they build vs shooting and filming what they build.

To be honest I've never shot a 458Win mag nor would I build one for elk. I know selecting a caliber is hard doesn't matter what it's for and you should build what you want.

You already shot the Barnes bullet have you used the rifle yet elk hunting?

Art Eatman · December 7, 2011, 07:11 PM

Looks like a sigline spam for the URL.

December 6, 2011, 10:57 PM	#2
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	It kicks but you can down load it with cast bullets and its pretty dern accurate. Or it is in my Ruger 77 in 458 WM __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

December 7, 2011, 04:54 AM	#3
natman Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2008 Posts: 2,606	The words "458 Win Mag" and "Long Range" don't belong together at all. The 458 is designed as a short range hammer for hunting BIG, dangerous game. The velocity is too low and the bullets too big for anything resembling long range work. Long range with 500 grain RN bullets is 100 yards. A 350 grain spitzer will make it a longer range proposition than 500 grain round noses, but a MV of 2400 fps and modest BC will put it in a class with such "very long range" cartridges as the 180 grain 30/40 Krag and the 150 grain 30-30. With a BC of .278 and a MV of 2400 and a 100 yard zero, the bullet will have dropped a manageable 6 inches at 200 yards and an not-so-manageable 23 inches (almost two feet) at 300. By 350 yards it's dropped a full yard. You won't want for power, but you'll want to keep the distances moderate. Plug the numbers in here and you'll get the picture. I used to hunt a bit with a 458 WM using a 350 grain RN before spitzers were available. It dropped a deer and a pig with authority, but I suspect you'll find that a 458 Mag rifle gets a bit heavy to drag up mountainsides in elk country. At least I did. Last edited by natman; December 7, 2011 at 08:22 AM.

December 7, 2011, 09:03 AM	#4
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,242	If you know your rifle and load it should work very well for long range. Heck the .45-70 is still used as a long range rifle in BP matches and it doesn't push bullets as fast as a .458 Win Mag. If you purpose build your rifle with the right componets there is no reason you shouldn't be able to use it as a long range rifle. __________________ NRA Life Member

December 7, 2011, 01:41 PM	#7
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	I agree. "Long Range" and ".458 Win Mag" don't belong in the same sentence. If a long range "hammer" is the goal, .416 Rigby and .404 Jeffery is where I would start my search. That being said... .458 Win Mag is a fine cartridge. It's very tame for a big bore, even with 'nasty' loads. It's such a pleasure to shoot, that I've hunted squirrels with a .458 WM Ruger M77. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

December 7, 2011, 03:07 PM	#8
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	Don't know why anyone not hunting in Africa would want one. A .338 would be a better long range gun for elk or go to a .375. But a .458? I would not want it. To each his own. Jerry __________________ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

December 6, 2011, 10:25 PM	#1
howiej Junior Member Join Date: December 6, 2011 Location: Creswell , Oregon Posts: 1	What do you think of the 458 Win Mag I had a custom one built a few years ago by a gunsmith in Sweet Home Oregon. I wanted a long range elk hammer. [I know you are already laughing] After a lot of research I came across the Barnes 350 Grain speer point bullet. Only 458 sp on the market. This gives the 458 a very long range with a lot of power. This gives 458 world a hole new look. See what you think. I love big bores. Last edited by Art Eatman; December 7, 2011 at 07:12 PM. Reason: Sigline spam.

December 7, 2011, 01:20 PM	#6
tim s Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2011 Posts: 223	There's a reason most effective calibers for medium/large game have similar designs including effecient sharp shoulder cases, mid sectional density high BC slugs going at faster veloctiies insuring reliable terminal ballistics with good medium/long range ability to place bullets in vitals. Sorry..... this is really none of those things. You can kill an elk with a truck but it ain't my first choice.

December 7, 2011, 05:45 PM	#9
csmsss Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Orange, TX Posts: 3,078	Oh, I don't know. Some of jus ust like rifles that make a big honking concussion. Last edited by csmsss; December 7, 2011 at 05:56 PM.

December 7, 2011, 06:08 PM	#10
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	About 20 years ago I got to fire a Ruger #1 in 458 Win Mag. I shot it from the sitting position because I figured shooting such a rifle from a rest would be suicidal. The first round surprised me with the recoil. The second really hurt. Hurt so much, I have not forgotten it. My 375 H&H M70 is a pop gun in comparison. I don’t like heavy recoil and a 458 has lots of heavy recoil. Shoot one first or your rifle may end up in the Pawn Shop after the first twenty rounds. Like all those S&W 500 Mags that end up back at the gunstore. People think having a hand cannon is fun and then they shoot it. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

December 7, 2011, 06:32 PM	#12
pabuckslayer08 Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2010 Location: South Central Pa Posts: 692	I dont think its the choice I would choose. Much better options like the .338 and the .375. If I was wanting a 600+ yard elk gun it would be a .338 Lapua for sure. But since Im not into the long range deal I opted for even less clear down to the 30-06 shooting 180s out of it

December 7, 2011, 06:55 PM	#13
old roper Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2007 Posts: 2,155	howiej (Rick V), From both articles you have lot of experience having things build the last 30yrs. Most sites I get on they always ask question before they build vs shooting and filming what they build. To be honest I've never shot a 458Win mag nor would I build one for elk. I know selecting a caliber is hard doesn't matter what it's for and you should build what you want. You already shot the Barnes bullet have you used the rifle yet elk hunting?

December 7, 2011, 07:11 PM	#14
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Looks like a sigline spam for the URL.