.303 British Reduced Loads

MilSurp-Enfield · January 16, 2011, 08:57 PM

Hey everyone, I'm pretty new here but I'm hoping that there are some here who will have some advice from personal experience. As we all know, rifle ammo is expensive and any means for loading your own on the cheap is quickly picked up. Sometimes this can be done at the expense of safety, which is my major reason for consulting with people of more experience first.

My quandary involves a reduced .303 British load. I have noticed that .32 ACP bullets (Magtech) have a .311 diameter (same as the .303 rifle bullets) and are under half the weight. They are also about 1/3 the cost. I realize that seating depth would be very shallow and the bullet would hit the lands at a pretty good speed (give the distance from the ogive to the lands).

The idea, obviously, is to crank out cheap plinking rounds. Given the data above, is there a load that most people would recommend which would be safe? I have heard that 25 grains of IMR 4198 would do quite well on a 150 gr. bullet and increase case life. My concern, since I'm not familiar with 4198, is that it would not have the volume to fill the case enough to prevent an overpressure situation.

Kiwi Hunter · January 17, 2011, 02:30 AM

You need to get some experience first before stepping in the deep end with reduce loads, odd projectiles etc.

Just shop around on your projectiles, there will be good deals to be found. Another option is cast lead projectiles which are really cheap, but once again not quite as straight forward to load for.

Get (quite) a few hundred rounds loaded and shot before getting off the beaten track and then you will be able to see where you are making mistakes if any and see problems as they arise not be asking "why did my rifle blow up" on here in a few weeks...

mattamuskeet · January 17, 2011, 06:05 AM

Look at 4759 powder. I have used it in .308 and 300 win reduced loads. The old speer manual has reduced loads using this powder for many cartridges

Sport45 · January 17, 2011, 06:28 AM

Welcome to the Forum!

One answer is IMR's Trail Boss.

Follow the directions they give and you'll be safe.

SwampYankee · January 17, 2011, 07:49 AM

They actually make an insert for the .303 chamber that will allow you to shoot .32 ACP as manufactured. If I were you, I would buy an insert, buy some .32 ACP an try it. If you are happy with it, you can just reload .32 ACP's.

PawPaw · January 17, 2011, 08:49 AM

If I were reloading for the .303 British, I'd probably use Lyman's 311299 as a plinking load. Of course, you'd probably have to cast the bullet for yourself, but many of us find that an enjoyable, relaxing hobby.

Buy a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and read it through. You'll gain a wealth of knowledge about cast bullets and reloading for them. It's a whole 'nuther way of looking at your rifle.

There's loads of information over at the Cast Boolits Forum about loading reduced loads in rifle cases. From the time firearms were invented until the end of the 19th century, everyone used cast bullets for everything. A properly cast, sized, lubed cast bullet can be just as accurate as a jacketed bullet, but it takes some specialized knowledge. It's not more difficult, just different.

jaguarxk120 · January 17, 2011, 09:05 AM

Another web site to try is www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/index.php they have a section just for very light loads and light bullets called plinkers hollow.

MilSurp-Enfield · January 17, 2011, 12:02 PM

Thank you all for your responses and kind reception on this forum!

SwampYankee: I had considered going with an insert. In fact, I had used an insert chambered in 7.62 Tokarev but had two major problems: undersized bullet and a military crimp in the ammo I was shooting (which caused the case to split from the neck down). The only reason I haven't tried an insert in .32 ACP (I reload .32, .380, and .45 ACP) is because I really wasn't sure if the case capacity would be sufficient to drive a 71 gr. bullet down the barrel. A squib would be really bad in this case. My only thought on that would be to load with .32 ACP cases with a slow-burning rifle powder but since it doesn't appear to have been done before, I'm very hesitant to do it (especially since I have no means for gauging chamber pressure and velocity).

Sport45: I've heard of TB and I've heard that it is a very good powder for this particular application and I may just use it.

KiwiHunter: Sound advice. Although I have reloaded pistol cartridges for a while, I have not reloaded rifle cartridges yet and this would be the first attempt. Conventional loadings which other people have tried would be a good idea until I got the hang of it.

PawPaw: The cast boolit route is not one I'm prepared to take. I don't have the equipment but I have loaded .45 ACP with cast and found them to be very messy (was I loading them too hot?).

In all, I think I may try the .32 ACP route with conventional pistol loadings first, as this is certainly the cheapest option. If I get squibs, I'll be back to see if anyone has advice for increasing the load either with pistol powder or a slower-burning rifle powder. I'm not sure how much one can increase pressure in .32 ACP cases in this situation but I imagine that being in a rifle would allow for higher pressures and the ceiling would be determined by case strength itself (watching out for the usual pressure signs such as primer flow, bulging, and difficulty of extraction).

Sport45 · January 17, 2011, 08:34 PM

I have one of thoes chamber adapters to shoot .32auto in my 7.7jap Arisaka. They're okay, but not great. The short bullet doesn't shoot well and it's something of a pain to take the the adapter out of the rifle and reload it each time between shots. If you're going to reload anyway, it's much easier to reload for the rifle round than to reload for a pistol round that has to be used in an adapter.

The advantage the .303 has over the 7.7jap is the rimmed case won't shorten every time you fire it with reduced loads.

wogpotter · January 18, 2011, 09:26 AM

Digging into my reloading manual here's a couple of loads I've found for you to work with. None of them use 4198 unfortunately, most reduced loads work best with a pistol powder.

11 Grains of Unique behind a 151 Gr hard cast bullet.
21 Gr of 2400 behind an 80 grain cast bullet.
You can probably substitute a 32 pistol bullet of the correct weight directly as these loads will be running wayyy under pressures where you'd need to be concerned with over pressurizing the round by a bullet substitution. Both of these are very mild "gallery loads" but you should read up on using a Dacron style filler for reduced loads for the sake of safety.

You could also use bullets designed for the AK 47/SKS rifles which have the right bore diameter but are lighter & use light loads for bullets of that weight as well.

MilSurp-Enfield · January 19, 2011, 11:02 AM

Sport45: The worst part of the adapter thing is extracting the case from the adapter. Obviously, the sooner you do it, the easier it is due to the thermal expansion of the adapter. Low rate of fire is not a big deal as I intend it to be a training round. Accuracy is a bigger deal but at 25 yards, I wouldn't think that the bullet would have too much room for deviation, especially if it fits the bore of the rifle.

wogpotter: I had noticed a couple of bullets that might work: the 123 gr. AK bullet which you mentioned (diameter is .310....which might be an issue) and the 100 gr. .32 S&W pistol bullet (.312), which is longer than the ACP bullet but lighter than the AK bullet.

The use of fillers in a rifle case has a reputation which recommends a liberal application of caution. I would prefer a high-volume, low-power powder, and for that, I may just go with TrailBoss.

Sport45 · January 19, 2011, 11:34 AM

I'll bet these .313 120gr bullets from Missouri Bullet would be the cat's meow for plinking with your .303 Brit.

My Arisaka feeds spire point bullets best when they're on the heavy side, but if they are short enough it doesn't seem to matter.

I said I had an adapter. I didn't say I used it any more.

You're right about it being a pain.

I'd rather form brass from '06 and throw them away when they get headspace issues than use the adapter. I have to keep the gallery brass separate from the stuff I use for full pressure because of the shoulder getting bumped back with each firing of the reduced loads.

MilSurp-Enfield · January 20, 2011, 05:37 PM

Sport45: Looking at those bullets, the price is definitely right! I would need to know what velocity would work best to minimize leading and what load of TrailBoss would get me in that vicinity.

Since I've never loaded reduced loads in rifle cases before, I'm not familiar with the "shifting shoulder" issue. Since I would not be using ammo in any other gun, I would definitely tend only to neck-size the brass (not sure if that would affect the shoulder one way or another). The question, then, is "what causes the shoulder to shift when using reduced loads?"

FrankenMauser · January 21, 2011, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Looking at those bullets, the price is definitely right! I would need to know what velocity would work best to minimize leading and what load of TrailBoss would get me in that vicinity.

TB will probably push you to about 1,200-1,400 fps with an average load. At BnH 18, the bullets should be able to handle those velocities just fine. Just use standard development procedures, and check for leading as you fire the progressively increasing powder charges.

TommyW · January 21, 2011, 04:40 PM

I use 150 gr. .311 Dia. Sierra Game-king bullets, Winchester large rifle primers with 25 gr. of SR 4759. Makes a great load for fun shooting. I do not hunt, so I don't know what effect reduced loads would have on game, probably OK for varmints. I think I got the info from the CH free side. Just do a Google search and type "reduced recoil for .303 British ammo" and see what you get...My 2 cents.

silverrado58 · January 26, 2011, 01:22 PM

Bullets of that size won't feed from the magazine all that well, your probably gonna have to single feed the rounds into the chamber. I once tried to use some 123 grain fmj .310 dia, designed to be used in 7.62X39 rounds they shot pretty good, just didn't feed well, in my No.4 Mk.1 SMLE also they were a little loose in bullet cannelure. I swapped out the expander to .308 So now I can use .308 dia. bullets which I have allot more choices in that dia.
Have fun, but take it slow.

MilSurp-Enfield · March 11, 2011, 06:07 PM

Cat's meow indeed! I just got back from the range and my load of 10 gr. of TB with a 120 gr. cast bullet seems pretty good. I have shot enough to judge the accuracy and I haven't had a chance yet to clean the rifle but it is very easy on the shoulder. Noise and recoil are only a bit more than .22 LR. I can say I really enjoyed shooting this round and will make more when I have time.

res45 · March 11, 2011, 08:15 PM

I like 16.0 grs. of Alliant 2400 (Universal Load) or 13.0 grs. of Red Dot The Load) behind a 170 gr. cast gas checked bullet in my Russian 54r and Long Branch 303. No felt recoil MV around 1600 fps. and accuracy is good enough for small to med. game hunting.

Clark · March 12, 2011, 12:14 AM

I have a 303 Brit rifle with .318" grooves that will keyhole military 303 Brit ammo with .310 bullets.

January 16, 2011, 08:57 PM	#1
MilSurp-Enfield Junior Member Join Date: July 27, 2010 Posts: 5	.303 British Reduced Loads Hey everyone, I'm pretty new here but I'm hoping that there are some here who will have some advice from personal experience. As we all know, rifle ammo is expensive and any means for loading your own on the cheap is quickly picked up. Sometimes this can be done at the expense of safety, which is my major reason for consulting with people of more experience first. My quandary involves a reduced .303 British load. I have noticed that .32 ACP bullets (Magtech) have a .311 diameter (same as the .303 rifle bullets) and are under half the weight. They are also about 1/3 the cost. I realize that seating depth would be very shallow and the bullet would hit the lands at a pretty good speed (give the distance from the ogive to the lands). The idea, obviously, is to crank out cheap plinking rounds. Given the data above, is there a load that most people would recommend which would be safe? I have heard that 25 grains of IMR 4198 would do quite well on a 150 gr. bullet and increase case life. My concern, since I'm not familiar with 4198, is that it would not have the volume to fill the case enough to prevent an overpressure situation.

January 17, 2011, 06:28 AM	#4
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	Welcome to the Forum! One answer is IMR's Trail Boss. Follow the directions they give and you'll be safe. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

January 17, 2011, 08:49 AM	#6
PawPaw Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Location: Central Louisiana Posts: 3,137	If I were reloading for the .303 British, I'd probably use Lyman's 311299 as a plinking load. Of course, you'd probably have to cast the bullet for yourself, but many of us find that an enjoyable, relaxing hobby. Buy a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and read it through. You'll gain a wealth of knowledge about cast bullets and reloading for them. It's a whole 'nuther way of looking at your rifle. There's loads of information over at the Cast Boolits Forum about loading reduced loads in rifle cases. From the time firearms were invented until the end of the 19th century, everyone used cast bullets for everything. A properly cast, sized, lubed cast bullet can be just as accurate as a jacketed bullet, but it takes some specialized knowledge. It's not more difficult, just different. __________________ Dennis Dezendorf http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com

January 17, 2011, 12:02 PM	#8
MilSurp-Enfield Junior Member Join Date: July 27, 2010 Posts: 5	Good suggestions Thank you all for your responses and kind reception on this forum! SwampYankee: I had considered going with an insert. In fact, I had used an insert chambered in 7.62 Tokarev but had two major problems: undersized bullet and a military crimp in the ammo I was shooting (which caused the case to split from the neck down). The only reason I haven't tried an insert in .32 ACP (I reload .32, .380, and .45 ACP) is because I really wasn't sure if the case capacity would be sufficient to drive a 71 gr. bullet down the barrel. A squib would be really bad in this case. My only thought on that would be to load with .32 ACP cases with a slow-burning rifle powder but since it doesn't appear to have been done before, I'm very hesitant to do it (especially since I have no means for gauging chamber pressure and velocity). Sport45: I've heard of TB and I've heard that it is a very good powder for this particular application and I may just use it. KiwiHunter: Sound advice. Although I have reloaded pistol cartridges for a while, I have not reloaded rifle cartridges yet and this would be the first attempt. Conventional loadings which other people have tried would be a good idea until I got the hang of it. PawPaw: The cast boolit route is not one I'm prepared to take. I don't have the equipment but I have loaded .45 ACP with cast and found them to be very messy (was I loading them too hot?). In all, I think I may try the .32 ACP route with conventional pistol loadings first, as this is certainly the cheapest option. If I get squibs, I'll be back to see if anyone has advice for increasing the load either with pistol powder or a slower-burning rifle powder. I'm not sure how much one can increase pressure in .32 ACP cases in this situation but I imagine that being in a rifle would allow for higher pressures and the ceiling would be determined by case strength itself (watching out for the usual pressure signs such as primer flow, bulging, and difficulty of extraction).

January 17, 2011, 08:34 PM	#9
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	I have one of thoes chamber adapters to shoot .32auto in my 7.7jap Arisaka. They're okay, but not great. The short bullet doesn't shoot well and it's something of a pain to take the the adapter out of the rifle and reload it each time between shots. If you're going to reload anyway, it's much easier to reload for the rifle round than to reload for a pistol round that has to be used in an adapter. The advantage the .303 has over the 7.7jap is the rimmed case won't shorten every time you fire it with reduced loads. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

January 17, 2011, 02:30 AM	#2
Kiwi Hunter Member Join Date: August 13, 2009 Posts: 76	You need to get some experience first before stepping in the deep end with reduce loads, odd projectiles etc. Just shop around on your projectiles, there will be good deals to be found. Another option is cast lead projectiles which are really cheap, but once again not quite as straight forward to load for. Get (quite) a few hundred rounds loaded and shot before getting off the beaten track and then you will be able to see where you are making mistakes if any and see problems as they arise not be asking "why did my rifle blow up" on here in a few weeks...

January 17, 2011, 06:05 AM	#3
mattamuskeet Member Join Date: April 7, 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 99	Look at 4759 powder. I have used it in .308 and 300 win reduced loads. The old speer manual has reduced loads using this powder for many cartridges

January 17, 2011, 07:49 AM	#5
SwampYankee Registration in progress Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: I can be found on a number of other forums. Posts: 1,333	They actually make an insert for the .303 chamber that will allow you to shoot .32 ACP as manufactured. If I were you, I would buy an insert, buy some .32 ACP an try it. If you are happy with it, you can just reload .32 ACP's.

January 17, 2011, 09:05 AM	#7
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,619	Another web site to try is www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/index.php they have a section just for very light loads and light bullets called plinkers hollow.

January 18, 2011, 09:26 AM	#10
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Digging into my reloading manual here's a couple of loads I've found for you to work with. None of them use 4198 unfortunately, most reduced loads work best with a pistol powder. 11 Grains of Unique behind a 151 Gr hard cast bullet. 21 Gr of 2400 behind an 80 grain cast bullet. You can probably substitute a 32 pistol bullet of the correct weight directly as these loads will be running wayyy under pressures where you'd need to be concerned with over pressurizing the round by a bullet substitution. Both of these are very mild "gallery loads" but you should read up on using a Dacron style filler for reduced loads for the sake of safety. You could also use bullets designed for the AK 47/SKS rifles which have the right bore diameter but are lighter & use light loads for bullets of that weight as well. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

January 19, 2011, 11:02 AM	#11
MilSurp-Enfield Junior Member Join Date: July 27, 2010 Posts: 5	Choices, choices... Sport45: The worst part of the adapter thing is extracting the case from the adapter. Obviously, the sooner you do it, the easier it is due to the thermal expansion of the adapter. Low rate of fire is not a big deal as I intend it to be a training round. Accuracy is a bigger deal but at 25 yards, I wouldn't think that the bullet would have too much room for deviation, especially if it fits the bore of the rifle. wogpotter: I had noticed a couple of bullets that might work: the 123 gr. AK bullet which you mentioned (diameter is .310....which might be an issue) and the 100 gr. .32 S&W pistol bullet (.312), which is longer than the ACP bullet but lighter than the AK bullet. The use of fillers in a rifle case has a reputation which recommends a liberal application of caution. I would prefer a high-volume, low-power powder, and for that, I may just go with TrailBoss. Last edited by MilSurp-Enfield; January 19, 2011 at 11:03 AM. Reason: Grammar

January 19, 2011, 11:34 AM	#12
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	I'll bet these .313 120gr bullets from Missouri Bullet would be the cat's meow for plinking with your .303 Brit. My Arisaka feeds spire point bullets best when they're on the heavy side, but if they are short enough it doesn't seem to matter. I said I had an adapter. I didn't say I used it any more. You're right about it being a pain. I'd rather form brass from '06 and throw them away when they get headspace issues than use the adapter. I have to keep the gallery brass separate from the stuff I use for full pressure because of the shoulder getting bumped back with each firing of the reduced loads. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

January 20, 2011, 05:37 PM	#13
MilSurp-Enfield Junior Member Join Date: July 27, 2010 Posts: 5	Sport45: Looking at those bullets, the price is definitely right! I would need to know what velocity would work best to minimize leading and what load of TrailBoss would get me in that vicinity. Since I've never loaded reduced loads in rifle cases before, I'm not familiar with the "shifting shoulder" issue. Since I would not be using ammo in any other gun, I would definitely tend only to neck-size the brass (not sure if that would affect the shoulder one way or another). The question, then, is "what causes the shoulder to shift when using reduced loads?"

January 21, 2011, 04:40 PM	#15
TommyW Member Join Date: January 26, 2010 Location: Cary, North Carolina Posts: 33	reduced recoil, this one really works!! I use 150 gr. .311 Dia. Sierra Game-king bullets, Winchester large rifle primers with 25 gr. of SR 4759. Makes a great load for fun shooting. I do not hunt, so I don't know what effect reduced loads would have on game, probably OK for varmints. I think I got the info from the CH free side. Just do a Google search and type "reduced recoil for .303 British ammo" and see what you get...My 2 cents.

January 26, 2011, 01:22 PM	#16
silverrado58 Member Join Date: January 26, 2011 Location: West Palm Beach, FL. Posts: 25	Bullets of that size won't feed from the magazine all that well, your probably gonna have to single feed the rounds into the chamber. I once tried to use some 123 grain fmj .310 dia, designed to be used in 7.62X39 rounds they shot pretty good, just didn't feed well, in my No.4 Mk.1 SMLE also they were a little loose in bullet cannelure. I swapped out the expander to .308 So now I can use .308 dia. bullets which I have allot more choices in that dia. Have fun, but take it slow.

March 11, 2011, 06:07 PM	#17
MilSurp-Enfield Junior Member Join Date: July 27, 2010 Posts: 5	Range Report Cat's meow indeed! I just got back from the range and my load of 10 gr. of TB with a 120 gr. cast bullet seems pretty good. I have shot enough to judge the accuracy and I haven't had a chance yet to clean the rifle but it is very easy on the shoulder. Noise and recoil are only a bit more than .22 LR. I can say I really enjoyed shooting this round and will make more when I have time.

March 11, 2011, 08:15 PM	#18
res45 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 753	I like 16.0 grs. of Alliant 2400 (Universal Load) or 13.0 grs. of Red Dot The Load) behind a 170 gr. cast gas checked bullet in my Russian 54r and Long Branch 303. No felt recoil MV around 1600 fps. and accuracy is good enough for small to med. game hunting. __________________ The Reloaders Network discord Channel https://discord.gg/Nafuzht

March 12, 2011, 12:14 AM	#19
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I have a 303 Brit rifle with .318" grooves that will keyhole military 303 Brit ammo with .310 bullets.