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[10 Spot Terminator]

ITS GETTING OUT OF HAND FOLKS ! It's getting so I can't keep up with my shooting habit on a turret press . There are so many choices and so much hype from the press manufacturers , I wanted to get the best reviews from those qualified to give them and that it seems would be from you . You guys use the products and know the good as well as the bad, which ones are a more of a pain to switch between calibres , are prone to problems, and the list goes on . If you have one you feel strongly enough about to call it a definite keeper let me hear from you. I am hoping to get it right the first time . That old saying "you always get what you pay for" doesnt always mean the most exspensive is the best . Thanks for your help. 10 Spot

[kgpcr]

Hornady LNL!! Cheaper than a 550 Dillon. it has 5 stations vs 4, it is auto indexing. easier to change calibers by far, cheaper to change calibers by alot and is a high quality press backed by a life time no hassle warranty.

[cnjaxx]

The LNL is probably the best deal going right now, and I'm sure that it's one outstanding press. But I feel that the 550 Dillon is the finest press that was ever built. I have a 550, 650, and a square deal, and I love them all. But the 550 is simple, easy to operate and maintain, and will do just about any metalic cartrige.

[Robert M Boren Sr]

I use a Dillon 550B press, I love it. I load everything we have from 9mm up to 338 ultra mag.

[4sarge]

LNL other points:
Plus:
1. Powder Measure is vastly superior to Dillon's
2. Ability to "pop" a single die out to clean/service
3. 1000 bullet offer is worth $$
Negative:
1. The ejector wire sucks!

I'd give my LNL a 8.5 out of 10. Had a dillon 450b.

[73-Captain]

Well here we go again with another chance for the internet want to be experts making false claims about their toys...

I don't have the cheapest prices in front of me, I'm just using the first prices I found, FULL Dillon retail prices vs. a discount price for Hornady...

1 - Don't be misled by the claimed price, compare the TOTAL PRICE with both presses set up the SAME!

2 - The Hornady LnL is NOT necessarily cheaper than a Dillon 550, in fact, for you it might be virtually the SAME PRICE as a Dillon XL650!!!

Using the prices I have, the LnL is only $125 LESS than a XL650.

The Casefeeder with one shell plate for the LnL is $114 MORE than for the XL650.

This means the TOTAL PRICE for the Dillon XL650 with a Casefeeder is JUST $9 more!!!

3 - Yes, the 550 has 4 stations and the LnL has 5 stations but as you can see in #2 above for JUST $9 more we can compare the XL650 to the LnL so the advantage is moot since both now have 5 stations.

4 - Easier to change calibers? I don't know how to change the shell plate or priming systems on the LnL so I can't say.

When it comes to changing dies using the same primer size and shell plate, Wouldn't you think disconnecting the rod to the powder measure and pulling 2 pins to remove all the dies at once in a single toolhead on the XL650 would be MUCH EASIER than disconnecting the powder measure and removing the 5 seperate dies/die bushings individually?

But then the internet "experts" will say the XL650 uses a $23 toolhead and the LnL doesn't. This is true but only a half-truth and they are only going to tell you the half they want to tell you!

What they don't tell you is instead of needing a $23 toolhead, the LnL needs FIVE $4 "die bushings" for a cost of $20 per cartridge change.

For $3 more I'll take the convience of removing all the dies at once.

5 - Cheaper to change calibers by alot. I don't have the Hornady info. in front of me so I can't dispute this "expert claim". Just make sure when you are comparing prices you are comparing the same thing for each. Don't compare the price of the Dillon "Caliber Conversion KIT" to just a Hornady "shell plate". Compare shell plate costs to shell plate cost for each.

6 - "A high quality press backed by a life time no hassle warranty". Is our "internet expert" implying that the LnL is higher quality? Is he implying the LnL has a better warranty? If so, who is he kidding other than himself?

The Hornady LnL might be as high of a quality as a Dillon but definitely NOT better!

The best warranty? You have to be kidding, NOBODY beats Dillon.



Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with the LnL, I looked at the LnL very closely years ago before I went with the XL650. The LnL really is a very good copy of a Dillon 450 with a 5th station added.

The free bullet deal is great but remember... After the bullets are gone you are stuck with a press that is THREE GENERATIONS behind the XL650!!!

C.

[73-Captain]

Another supposed advantage of the LnL?

"2. Ability to "pop" a single die out to clean/service"


The Dillon dies are made very differently, they are made for progressive presses.

ALL those I have can be cleaned without removing the entire die. I prefer this to "popping" out a die.

C.

[45Dave]

I have owned Hornaday shotgun reloader (apex) and a dillion 650 for metalic reloading. My apex had many problems and trying to deal with Hornaday was a nightmare, the reloader never ran to it's potential because the faulty design had so many glitches. I was never so happy to get rid of a reloader and a company.
I have had two Dillion, a square B and 650 and can not say enouph good things about the service from the company.
The square B a friend found in a garage sale in terrible shape. Dillion took it back, rebuilt it I mean all new guts including a new powder measure for the grand cost of shipping...30 dollars. I offered to pay as I was not the original owner..their comment, dillion takes care of there own.
My second reolader..a 650 had been used as a clothing hanger by someone for 11 years after reloading a few rounds. ( the guy is a collector not user) It was missing some parts and after talking to the dillion reps on the phone they said, ship it back, we will upgrade it to some new improvments. Guess what, new stage, new primer stataion (old owner has messed it up), new powder station, and many changes they did over the past 11 years. Runs excellent.

I know there are camps out there backing a horse but one way to really find out about quality is how they take care of you after the sale for the long haul.

Oh..fella at work wore a dillion out after 10 years of reloading for rifle competition, he fires more in one year .223 or .308 than I would in a life time. Sent it back, two weeks later it came back 100 percent rebuilt.

So the question is..how much is good service and reliablity worth? And yes, like any mechanical devise all will break down or need work now and then.

[jmorris]

For progressive presses I’ve got 2 SD’s, 2 650’s and a 1050 so I don’t need to rant about my thoughts on Dillon products. I too have noticed the rising costs of reloading components and looked at the Hornady “get loaded” promotion (who doesn’t need more stuff). For 308, for example, you get 1000 rounds saving $297.30 at full retail or $209.90 with Midways current (non dealer) price. Midsouth has the LNL AP for $344, so you’ve only got $135 in your press + shipping. I’d be you could unload one for that, if you didn’t like it. I think they would be much better off (getting more potential customers) offering the case feeder instead of the free bullets. As it stands you’ll spend another $300 by the time it gets to your door to add that feature. There are also accessories available for the 650 that you simply can’t get for the LNL, http://www.gsiinternational.com/ , for example.

[CPTMurdoc30]

I went with the Dillon 550b. It loads just about the most different cartridges of any progressive. I like because it is a manual index to me it allows me to have a little more control over the speed and what is going on.

The hornady LNL is another good press for the price of a 550 you get the features of the Dillon XL650.

[DaveInGA]

I owned a 550 and now own a LnL. I also reload regularly on the 650 a buddy owns. You're not going to do badly with any of the three presses.

People get very emotional about the things and I used to, but have realized over time it's simply a waste of energy. Each press has it's good and bad points and any one will give you trouble if it isn't setup, adjusted right and kept cleaned & lubed properly.

My suggestion to you is to pretty much ignore the highly negative posts both ways and go look at the features of each press and decide what you like.

For example, pluses and minuses for each:

The 550:
Fairly simple, reliable operation
slightly simpler setup relative to the others.
only 4 stations, no powder check die position for pistol
good reloader for pistol calibers
powder measure not as accurate with extruded powders unless it's been modified
has a toolhead and this makes it fairly simple to change setups
the primer system can sometimes be problematic if not setup right
casefeeder available, but only get a 25% gain in production over the stock unit due to manual operation of the press
manual operation is simpler for some folks than automatic indexing, allowing more control

LnL:
5 stations
automatic indexing
powder check die available
powder measure excellent for pistol and rifle, but must be cleaned thoroughly
powder die under powder measure while simple, seems to be problematic for non-mechanical folks to adjust
very fast press
strong linkage/large opening for hands
ejector wire has been problematic for some folks, but recent posts indicate that polishing the wire along with the shellplates eliminates most all issues
very similar, dependable primer feed system to the 1050
primer system can be problematic if not setup right
abilitity to change any single die or plate a single die in the press without other dies is a big advantage, especially when loading for rifle (FL vs neck sizing, FL sizing, then trimming when not using an X-die, etc.)
responds well to casefeeder addition
casefeeder pretty much same as 650 casefeeder in operation, same faults as 650 casefeeder

650:
5 stations
speed w/casefeeder, like the LnL, is very fast
slower and more complex to change calibers
caliber conversions more expensive than LnL
powder measure very accurate with pistol powders, but not as accurate with extruded rifle powders
powder measure slower to setup, but seems to be simpler for some folks to setup
primer system can be problematic if not setup right
responds well to casefeeder addition
powder funnels easier to setup for some folks than LnL powder measure
lacks the ability to change out a single die at a time or use only one die at a time without buying additional tool head (single LnL bushings are less expensive than a toolhead and depending on caliber, a set for a die set is less expensive than toolhead)

Some other notes:

Buddy and I have both used Hornady and Dillon warranties and both have had negative and positive experiences. Both have been overwhelmingly positive. Both companies generally do a better job than other companies with their tech support. RCBS, whom I haven't mentioned until now, actually does better than both of them when it comes to sending replacement parts for failed items.

In conclusion, I think it's probably more about which features you think you need rather than which press has this issue or that issue. They're all mechanical and they'll all have issues at one time or another. If you don't have some mechanical aptitude, you probably won't be able to run any of them effectively without some help.

I suggest you go to each company's website, learn about the available features of each press and make your decision based on which features are important to you.

After all, any of the above mentioned presses are good ones and they all load great ammo.

I didn't mention the RCBS press because I don't own one and RCBS has recently made upgrades I'm not familiar with. You might want to look at them as well. The Lee progressive, I'll leave to the Lee progressive guys but will mention I have one of their Classic turret presses and it's far superior to any standard turret press and is capable of 200-300 rounds per hour without any drama and the caliber changes are way cheaper than any other company's progressive.

Regards,

Dave

[angeldeville]

Hornady LNL is pretty neat, BUT how many other presses has Hornady discontinued over the years

Dillon's 550 has been around for a while, and the 450 was upgradeable to a 550.


But you do get a whole mess of bullets when you buy the Hornady....

[Shoney]

I own the Dillon 550 and the Hornady LNL Auto. I used to be a member of the blue buffoon battalion, who, because of blind loyalty, use to dishonestly spew the “lots of BS” blue bullroar (like a lot of posters above who have never loaded on the LNL Auto). The Hornady LNL Auto is the winner hands down, both in quality and price.

Wish I had more time to extole the LNL Auto virtues, but other honest people will.

[snuffy]

Better do a search or two here and on other boards before jumping on the Hornady bandwagon.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=342827

I'm sure there's a lot of other threads out there about bad experiences with the L-N-L and it's problems. But then I'm prejudiced, I own a dillon 650 that has given me 0 problems.

As far as the Hornady apex shotshell loader, I was working at a gunshop that was factory direct with Hornady, when the apex came out. Simply, it was released to the public before it was tested to any length. It was full of cheap clear plastic parts, where metal parts would have worked well. The plastic shell guides would break if they got any side pressure on them at all. If set up perfectly, it would run quite well. But the ham-handed public that has never loaded shotshells before is not capable of being careful. Even being factory direct, we had problems with service for our customers. They eventually dropped the whole concept.

[Waldog]

73-Captain, (THE Expert) states: "Well here we go again with another chance for the internet want to be experts making false claims about their toys..."

It's funny he didn't mention his VAST experience with the LNL.

Read this, http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillon...Comparison.pdf

It's a pretty good comparison of the press' available. If you want the real SCOOP, pay attention to SHONEY and DaveinGA. They have both the Dillon and LNL and have a lot of experience with each. They helped me decide on the LNL and I am very satisfied.

Contrary to what Captain-"Expert" has to say, in my experience, Hornady's service has been exemplary.

The Dillon, Hornady and RCBS are ALL good products.

[ForneyRider]

I have the Lee Pro 1000 that I bought as a kit with 41 magnum dies.

I like it. But I wish I had gotten a press with more stations, like the Hornady LnL or the Lee Load Master.

[TexasSeaRay]

If Lee ever comes out with a "Classic Cast Pro1000," I'm set for life.

Got a (Dillon 550B) that I'm thinking about springing for a case feeder to put on--but I'm not crazy about manual indexing. Just me, but I don't like it. Could explain why the 550B is boxed up and stored away. Maybe with a case feeder, I'll get along with indexing and bullet seating. Don't mind doing two things, but don't want to do "three" things on a supposedly "progressive" press.

I've been loading on a (Lee) Pro1000 for over twenty years and have been NOTHING BUT SATISFIED. Three stations is more than enough for me--I don't use FCDs for any of my handgun rounds as I've never had an issue where I need an FCD for them.

Jury is still out on the FCD for long guns . . .

I've got my eye on a (Lee) Classic Cast single stage, although my old Challenger is still perfect.

I looked at a Hornady LNL at Cabelas the other day. That is quite a machine--built like a tank. I got to actually load on a (Dillon 650) a few weekends ago that had a case feeder, and was impressed.

Originally Posted by DaveInGA

People get very emotional about the things and I used to, but have realized over time it's simply a waste of energy. Each press has it's good and bad points and any one will give you trouble if it isn't setup, adjusted right and kept cleaned & lubed properly.

This pretty well sums it up.

Check out all of 'em and buy the one you like the most. Then learn how to set it up the way it was meant to be set up, use it the way it was designed to be use, and take care of it the way it was meant to be taken care of.

Do those three things and you'll be happy with whatever choice you make.

Jeff

[kgpcr]

i too used to own a dillon and now own a Hornady. Much better value in my mind. I wont get emotional over it like some here are with thier Blue press' as i really dont care what you buy and will not knock you if you too drink the Blue Koolaid. I love my Hornady and could care less what others think of it and if they want to blindly follow Dillon who cares!

[carprivershooter]

From what I have seen on this thread is that people all have a favorite. I will add my 2cents, 1 decide what you think you will need vs. what you think you want 2. Decide what you can afford (again need vs. want) 3.research them all. 4 purchase based on what you think is best for you at the moment. I think if you listen to others and decide based on what they say you are more likely to be unhappy with what you get. Only you know how you will use the item. Trust yourself and you will be happy.

Stated like a true gun toting liberal social worker.

[4sarge]

The Dillon dies are made very differently, they are made for progressive presses.

I don't have any Dillon dies so I didn't know this. But since I do have dies from 4 different non-Dillon companies, taking them out for service easily is a nice feature.
I put the LNL adapter in my Rockcrusher press too though it requires a height adjustment from changing from the setting on the LNL progressive.

[Waldog]

I would like to submit my apology to 73-Captain on this forum. My comments were not especially courteous. Sorry!!

I would also like to thank him for the friendly, warm and caring PM he sent me.

[Alleykat]

The Hornady powder measure works just fine on a Dillon. I use one, for bottleneck loading, on my 650. Hornady makes quality equipment, but they do need to do something about that ejector wire!

[DaveInGA]

TexasSeaRay,

If Lee ever comes out with a "Classic Cast Pro1000," I'm set for life.
I hear ya bud, except I'm hoping it will be at least a four position press, preferably a five.

Got a (Dillon 550B) that I'm thinking about springing for a case feeder to put on--but I'm not crazy about manual indexing. Just me, but I don't like it. Could explain why the 550B is boxed up and stored away. Maybe with a case feeder, I'll get along with indexing and bullet seating. Don't mind doing two things, but don't want to do "three" things on a supposedly "progressive" press.You're definitely a candidate for a full blown progressive. I've been told by Brian Enos you only gain about 25% speed over the basic press when you add a casefeeder to a 550. If I still owned my 550, I'd sell it and get a 650 or LnL before spending money on a casefeeder for a manually indexed press. Just not enough of a production gain. In practical terms, this means 550(if you're getting that many per hour) times 1.25 equals 688 (rounding up) vs. an increase for the LnL and 650 to around 1000 per hour over the 650 they put out stock. So a 50% plus gain instead of the relatively small 25% gain. That's enough difference to make me buy the LnL or 650 over the 550 and/or get rid of my 550.

I've been loading on a (Lee) Pro1000 for over twenty years and have been NOTHING BUT SATISFIED. Three stations is more than enough for me--I don't use FCDs for any of my handgun rounds as I've never had an issue where I need an FCD for them.
I like them, but I don't use them for handgun because I want a factory cirmp, but because I'm lazy and like to separate the adjustment of the seating and crimping operation to make initial setup quicker. But that's laziness, not a need for a FCD. Have done the same thing with the Hornady taper crimp die and was just as happy.

Jury is still out on the FCD for long guns . . .
I've been real happy with the FCD with a light crimp for rifle rounds. Does seem to help gain a "bit more" from the group tightness if you've used up every other thing.

I've got my eye on a (Lee) Classic Cast single stage, although my old Challenger is still perfect.
I have one. After getting it, I got rid of my RCBS Rock Chucker as an inferior press. I have a challenger as well, but am not doing anything with it, since I installed a Hornady LnL Conversion kit, I can switch dies out so quickly on the Classic cast without any adjustment.

I looked at a Hornady LNL at Cabelas the other day. That is quite a machine--built like a tank. I got to actually load on a (Dillon 650) a few weekends ago that had a case feeder, and was impressed.
I enjoy loading on my buddy's 650 and he seems to enjoy loading on my LnL, but he refuses to admit it. He's got the Blue Koolaid blues sometimes. Whines badly when we both buy a caliber conversion and I torment him about the cost difference. (grin)

Check out all of 'em and buy the one you like the most. Then learn how to set it up the way it was meant to be set up, use it the way it was designed to be use, and take care of it the way it was meant to be taken care of.
Good advice.

Do those three things and you'll be happy with whatever choice you make.
I agree

Dave

[BigJimP]

I think one of the things that is a deal breaker on a new press - is does it have a "powder check" system. If it doesn't - then find a press that does. That powder check station gives me a lot more security that a case is not significantly off my goal drop and it will definitely tell me if there is ever an empty case or a double charged case. So I wouldn't buy a press without that option.

As for brands - I don't think any of the big names are making bad presses - Rcbs, Hornday, Dillon, etc - but personally, I have a Dillon 650 with a case feeder and I think its a great press ( and it has the powder check ) the Dillon SDB and the 550 do not have that option. I would buy the Dillon 650 again in a heartbeat - and if I really thought Hornady or RCBS made a better press, I'd buy one of them. The Dillon 650 is a little more money - but I think you get what you pay for often.

[zxcvbob]

If I was starting from scratch and didn't have any dies yet, I would seriously look at the Dillon "Square Deal".

I did have a lot of dies already, so I bought a Hornady LNL-AP. That free bullets offer is hard to pass up. (I have yet to receive the bullets though, and it's been 4 months since I sent in the paperwork.) I think the Hornady press is probably closer to a Dillon 650 than a 550. And I agree with whoever said the ejector wire sucks.