|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
January 20, 2019, 01:25 AM | #26 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 5,468
|
Quote:
As far as I know the only reason for the bolt knob was to either cock or decock the weapon. Lowering the pin and carrying the weapon with the pin down wasn't exactly the plan, i don't think, but our military had spent a lot of time fighting in cold weather, and with injured hands. You had a big knob to grab. (oh, come on, leave that be. there's no other way to describe it.) Several others such as the krag, arisaka, and enfield had enhanced grabbing bolt heads. Mauser didn't seem to see a point in it. No current models seem to carry a cocking knob, the current designs all depend on manual safeties that don't allow the pin to get near the primer.
__________________
None. Last edited by briandg; January 20, 2019 at 01:40 AM. |
|
January 20, 2019, 01:24 PM | #27 | ||
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,832
|
Quote:
Quote:
"Bolt knob" is usually used referring to the knob on the end of the bolt handle, and "bolt head" is commonly used referring to the front of the bolt, where many (but not all) designs put the locking lugs. What we are talking about is the rear end of the firing pin assembly, which is usually called the "cocking piece". The design of the cocking piece on the different military bolt guns shows either the intent of the designers, or the requirements of the purchasers. One thing to keep in mind is that the designs all pre-date 1900 or are based largely on designs that pre-date 1900. An era when misfires, hangfires and ruptured cases/primers were much, much more common than today. I believe the intent of an easily grabbed cocking piece knob was so that the event of a misfire (dud) weapon could be recocked without operating the bolt. A "second strike" capability. And, it could also be used to decock the EMPTY rifle without dry firing it. I don't think any military would have had troops lowering the firing pin (decocking) with a live round in the chamber. In all the designs I'm aware of, that would put the firing pin in contact with the primer, which is not even remotely a safe way to carry the rifle, as any blow to the back of the firing pin would go straight to the primer, firing the round. The British Enfield (SMLE) has an "enhanced grabbing" cocking piece, its large, flat, and grooved for that reason, and is a carryover from the original Enfield design, which dates from 1888. The large knob at the rear of the Arisaka bolt is the safety. It is operated by pushing in and turning it, to put the safety "on". Pulling on that knob will not cock the rifle. The Moisin Nagant has a large knob at the back, which is also the safety, but can be used to cock or decock the rifle. The Mauser 98 doesn't have a cocking piece knob, though there are a pair of slots in the cocking piece where a makeshift tool could be "hooked" to pull the cocking piece back, without working the bolt. The Krag has a cocking piece knob, allowing for an easy "second strike" on a primer. The 1903 Springfield has that same knob, and I believe that it was carried over from the Krag to the Springfield at the request of the Army. (just my theory, I have no proof). I think it is a reasonable theory, because of the second feature shared by the Krag and the Springfield, the magazine cut-off. I think both these features, found on the Krag were carried over to the Springfield because the Army wanted them (at the time). Note that later (newer) designs don't have either of them. The US 1917 Enfield comes to mind. Neither a cocking piece knob or a magazine cutoff on that design. I think that after the 1903 design, it was finally recognized that neither feature was really needed, and was simply extra manufacturing expense for something that wasn't very useful. As far as I know, the US was the only nation to use the magazine cutoff, and we dropped it after the 1903 Springfield design. The idea sounds useful, allowing the solider to single load rounds for aimed fire, while keeping the loaded magazine in reserve, available at the flip of a switch for "emergencies" but in practice turned out to be of little or no practical value. Here's a little known tidbit, showing how some ideas carry on, even when they have already been largely discarded. The "second strike" capability (recocking the gun for a second strike on the primer, without working the action) can also be done with the M1 Garand and the M14 rifle! Even the M16 can be "recocked" without moving the bolt, though doing it is more awkward than doing it with the other rifles named. The 1903 Springfield is a hybrid of Krag and Mauser features, enough Mauser that a court eventually ruled that we had to pay Mauser royalties on our use of their design. And, we did, though Mauser never got a penny of them, we did pay... (the payments were held in escrow due to WW I, and after the war, seized as part of Germany's "reparation payments". Neither the German government nor Mauser ever got any of the money.)
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
||
January 20, 2019, 02:03 PM | #28 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,541
|
Quote:
The Ross Mk II rifle had a magazine cutoff. The difference being that the Empire carried on with the bolt action for a long time and kept updating it while we moved on to automatics. |
|
January 20, 2019, 07:02 PM | #29 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 7,014
|
briandg:
I am kind of straining my brain around this, prior to WWII what cold weather battles did the US fight? US got to WWI summer of 1918. 1903 designed before that. All fights were tropical I can think of prior. Quote:
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not |
|
January 20, 2019, 08:12 PM | #30 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,188
|
Quote:
|
|
January 20, 2019, 08:25 PM | #31 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 15, 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 278
|
Quote:
And thanks for the little primer on WW1 and 2 military bolt guns!
__________________
NRA life member. Making good people helpless doesn't make bad people harmless! |
|
January 20, 2019, 08:28 PM | #32 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 15, 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 278
|
Quote:
__________________
NRA life member. Making good people helpless doesn't make bad people harmless! |
|
January 20, 2019, 10:02 PM | #33 | |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,832
|
Quote:
I am very tempted to leave it at that, and see how many can guess, but since you asked, you do it with the trigger guard! Unlatch the trigger guard at the rear and rotate it forward like a lever gun, the same as you do to take the gun apart. This will cock the hammer. Close the guard back up and latch it and you are ready to try that "second strike" on the primer without ever needed to work the bolt at all. This will work on the M1 Garand, the M14 and the M1A. (with the standard GI trigger group) Not sure why one would want this ability, but it is there. With the M16 (and all other AR variants) push out the rear takedown pin, hinge the rifle open and recock the hammer by hand, then close and push the pin back in. Most of us would simply cycle the action and eject the unfired round loading a new round, but if for some reason you do want to recock these guns without opening the bolt at all, it can be done. Now, want to bet me I can't lower the hammer of a 1911A1 using only the hand holding the gun? one fellow actually did.... Once....
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
|
January 20, 2019, 10:23 PM | #34 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,188
|
Quote:
|
|
January 21, 2019, 12:18 AM | #35 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 15, 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 278
|
Quote:
__________________
NRA life member. Making good people helpless doesn't make bad people harmless! |
|
January 21, 2019, 12:34 AM | #36 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 15, 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 278
|
Quote:
__________________
NRA life member. Making good people helpless doesn't make bad people harmless! |
|
January 21, 2019, 08:42 AM | #37 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,188
|
It is impressive. When I first got it I sighted it in at 100 yards and once it was zeroed I couldn't see any new holes. I even went and looked at the backboard thinking I was missing the whole target. When I finally figured out they were all going thru the same hole I was like WOW!!! It was built by a master builder who is sadly no longer with us. The barrel was made by a man that built sniper rifles for the military during Vietnam. I think his name was Mike Stone but I could be mistaken. After he got out he started making his own barrels but didn't stay in business long. This one was a NOS he'd had waiting for a special project but let me have it instead.
|
January 21, 2019, 10:58 AM | #38 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 28, 2013
Posts: 3,824
|
Quote:
It is mostly wood shop talk. I'm just an amateur who happens to have dealt with a few gun stocks with warped barrel channels. -TL Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk |
|
January 21, 2019, 12:02 PM | #39 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 2, 2017
Posts: 1,868
|
Bushnell 1.75-5x32 designed for shotguns and muzzle loader's? Amazing! Where did you come up with that?
|
January 21, 2019, 01:08 PM | #40 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 15, 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 278
|
Quote:
https://www.opticsplanet.com/bushnel...pe-731500.html
__________________
NRA life member. Making good people helpless doesn't make bad people harmless! |
|
January 21, 2019, 01:23 PM | #41 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 15, 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 278
|
Quote:
__________________
NRA life member. Making good people helpless doesn't make bad people harmless! |
|
January 21, 2019, 04:33 PM | #42 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,188
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|