S&W J Frame Cartridges BUMP the stop?

SgtLumpy · May 19, 2013, 04:50 PM

SW J frame Chief's special circa 1956.

Ejector unscrews with LEFT hand threads, IE turn RIGHT to unscrew, LEFT to tighten. Some say that's backwards for that year model J frame, but mine is that way and I'm just real sure it's OEM.

With cylinder open, cartridges (or dummys) in the cyl, the edges of the cartridge RIM strike the little frame stop on the left side, that thing that keeps the cylinder from falling off the back of the pistol. I don't know the appropriate term for that little piece. I hope my description makes sense.

It's as if the cylinder was too close to the frame.

Tried the obvious. Cleaned everything.

Ejector rod appears straight. I chucked it in a drill press and I can measure about .010 inch runout. Some of that is surely in the drill press. I don't have a lathe.

Adjusting the tight/looseness of the ejector rod is a little wierd. Everyone says it should be really tight. But when I do that, it's too short. Makes it difficult (or impossible) to open and close the crane/cylinder. Unscrew it a bit and it's a little longer, than I can open and close the thing ok.

Am I missing anything obvious here?

TIA -

Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke

www.n0eq.com

James K · May 19, 2013, 10:16 PM

S&W didn't make the ejector rod change all at once; they phased it in by model. It should be impossible to screw the rod in too far. But 1956 would be too early for the change so, IMHO, the fact that your gun has left hand threads indicates at least the ejector and ejector rod have been replaced, possibly by a gunsmith who was not fully aware of all that had to be done. I strongly suggest contacting S&W and ask about returning it for a checkup.

Jim

kraigwy · May 21, 2013, 12:51 PM

I second that, send it to S&W, outstanding customer service.

Except: I sent my 642 in for repair. The couldn't fix it so gave me a new one, the new one cost me $670......while I was filing out the paper work my wife found a 637 she just had to have.

The free replacement is a ploy to get you in the store to buy more S&W's.

g.willikers · May 21, 2013, 10:46 PM

Maybe someone decided the cylinder to barrel gap was too small and shimmed the cylinder rearward too much.

g.willikers · May 22, 2013, 07:30 AM

Had another thought - (look out).
If the ejector rod, center pin and/or ejector has been replaced, maybe with the wrong one for the cylinder.
Is the ejector fitting flush against the rear of the cylinder or sticking up some?

James K · May 22, 2013, 01:53 PM

"Maybe someone decided the cylinder to barrel gap was too small and shimmed the cylinder rearward too much."

That would not cause the case rims to hit the cylinder stop stud; only the wrong cylinder or a cylinder mis-alignment would do that.

Jim

rmbrad · July 27, 2013, 02:04 PM

Could it be a bent or sprung crane/yoke?

1911Tuner · July 27, 2013, 02:14 PM

Could be that somebody had the sideplate off and put the screws back into the wrong holes. I've run into this a couple times.

The forwardmost screw is the one that retains the crane and yoke. It's shaped differently on the end than the one straight back from it...which will physically fit the hole, but its more squarish end will pull the cylinder in one direction or the other...but usually backward. Loosen that screw 2 turns. If your problem goes away, switch it with the other one.

Dixie Gunsmithing · July 27, 2013, 03:01 PM

It almost sounds to me like someone has replaced the cylinder, crane, and all. It would be hard to tell if they did, providing the finish was equal between the two, until you find a problem like you're having. A gunsmith should have caught this, so that makes me wonder if it could have been a gun trader, etc., who likes to tinker, that did it, if it was, in fact, replaced.

If the crane was replaced, I would almost bet there would be a slight mis-match in the metal , gap or height, where it was polished, between the frame, and the crane, on the front of the gun.

1911Tuner · July 27, 2013, 04:20 PM

Before ya go chasin' Zebras...check that screw.

James K · July 27, 2013, 08:03 PM

Regardless of the cause, moving the cylinder back or forward will not change the sideways relationship between the rear of the cylinder and the stop stud. But it may help to know that the stop stud on the older guns was adjusted with a file as part of the cylinder fitting, so it is entirely possible that a very slightly different cylinder would have that problem. That is more of a possibility since the cylinder does not appear to be original to the gun (newer model extractor rod, for example).

Jim

1911Tuner · July 27, 2013, 09:06 PM

Check the screw anyway. It's the simplest. If that's not it, check to see if the yoke is bent. If that's not it, then start looking at the possibility that the gun isn't wearing its original yoke, crane, or cylinder...or all three.

**4V50 Gary** · July 27, 2013, 09:43 PM

I thought the condition described was normal for the smaller J frame revolvers. Let me check.

James K · July 27, 2013, 10:56 PM

That stud has to be just right; there is not a lot of leeway because it has to catch the cylinder but not interfere with the rims. I suppose the rims could be oversize to cause that problem, but I have never seen that happen. In the newer J-frames, there is no cylinder stop stud. Instead, its function is taken over by a boss on the frame which has to be less expensive than the old stud, which was inserted in a drilled hole and riveted in place. That did have the advantage that it could be replaced if for some reason it was too short and allowed the cylinder to come out. AFAIK, it was considered part of a permanent assembly, was never sold by S&W and was replaced only by the factory.

Jim

SgtLumpy · July 29, 2013, 06:57 PM

Whatever it was, a tuneup at my gunsmith brought it back into spec. Now this little chief shoots and operates smoother than it ever did.

Sgt Lumpy

1911Tuner · July 30, 2013, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Whatever it was, a tuneup at my gunsmith brought it back into spec. Now this little chief shoots and operates smoother than it ever did.

That suggests that it was somethin' simple. Either somebody switched the screws or the yoke wasn't straight...or maybe both. The screw can not only pull the cylinder back and cause interference between the rear face and the stop stud, it can also kick it just a little cattywampus...and in the J-frames, it doesn't take much.

I ran into that once with an old Chief's Special. Switched the screws and it was good to go. The only thing I can figure is that whoever had the gun apart didn't shoot it again, or he'd have realized that he'd some somethin' wrong. Either that or...on realizing that it was wrong...ran out and traded the gun.

May 19, 2013, 04:50 PM	#1
SgtLumpy Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2013 Posts: 779	S&W J Frame Cartridges BUMP the stop? SW J frame Chief's special circa 1956. Ejector unscrews with LEFT hand threads, IE turn RIGHT to unscrew, LEFT to tighten. Some say that's backwards for that year model J frame, but mine is that way and I'm just real sure it's OEM. With cylinder open, cartridges (or dummys) in the cyl, the edges of the cartridge RIM strike the little frame stop on the left side, that thing that keeps the cylinder from falling off the back of the pistol. I don't know the appropriate term for that little piece. I hope my description makes sense. It's as if the cylinder was too close to the frame. Tried the obvious. Cleaned everything. Ejector rod appears straight. I chucked it in a drill press and I can measure about .010 inch runout. Some of that is surely in the drill press. I don't have a lathe. Adjusting the tight/looseness of the ejector rod is a little wierd. Everyone says it should be really tight. But when I do that, it's too short. Makes it difficult (or impossible) to open and close the crane/cylinder. Unscrew it a bit and it's a little longer, than I can open and close the thing ok. Am I missing anything obvious here? TIA - Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke www.n0eq.com

May 21, 2013, 12:51 PM	#3
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	I second that, send it to S&W, outstanding customer service. Except: I sent my 642 in for repair. The couldn't fix it so gave me a new one, the new one cost me $670......while I was filing out the paper work my wife found a 637 she just had to have. The free replacement is a ploy to get you in the store to buy more S&W's. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

May 21, 2013, 10:46 PM	#4
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Maybe someone decided the cylinder to barrel gap was too small and shimmed the cylinder rearward too much. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

May 22, 2013, 07:30 AM	#5
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Had another thought - (look out). If the ejector rod, center pin and/or ejector has been replaced, maybe with the wrong one for the cylinder. Is the ejector fitting flush against the rear of the cylinder or sticking up some? __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

July 27, 2013, 02:14 PM	#8
1911Tuner Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: NC Piedmont/Foothills Posts: 666	bump Could be that somebody had the sideplate off and put the screws back into the wrong holes. I've run into this a couple times. The forwardmost screw is the one that retains the crane and yoke. It's shaped differently on the end than the one straight back from it...which will physically fit the hole, but its more squarish end will pull the cylinder in one direction or the other...but usually backward. Loosen that screw 2 turns. If your problem goes away, switch it with the other one. __________________ If your front porch collapses and kills more than three dogs...You just might be a redneck

May 19, 2013, 10:16 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	S&W didn't make the ejector rod change all at once; they phased it in by model. It should be impossible to screw the rod in too far. But 1956 would be too early for the change so, IMHO, the fact that your gun has left hand threads indicates at least the ejector and ejector rod have been replaced, possibly by a gunsmith who was not fully aware of all that had to be done. I strongly suggest contacting S&W and ask about returning it for a checkup. Jim

May 22, 2013, 01:53 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	"Maybe someone decided the cylinder to barrel gap was too small and shimmed the cylinder rearward too much." That would not cause the case rims to hit the cylinder stop stud; only the wrong cylinder or a cylinder mis-alignment would do that. Jim

July 27, 2013, 02:04 PM	#7
rmbrad Junior Member Join Date: July 2, 2008 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 8	Could it be a bent or sprung crane/yoke?

July 27, 2013, 03:01 PM	#9
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	It almost sounds to me like someone has replaced the cylinder, crane, and all. It would be hard to tell if they did, providing the finish was equal between the two, until you find a problem like you're having. A gunsmith should have caught this, so that makes me wonder if it could have been a gun trader, etc., who likes to tinker, that did it, if it was, in fact, replaced. If the crane was replaced, I would almost bet there would be a slight mis-match in the metal , gap or height, where it was polished, between the frame, and the crane, on the front of the gun.

July 27, 2013, 04:20 PM	#10
1911Tuner Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: NC Piedmont/Foothills Posts: 666	re: Before ya go chasin' Zebras...check that screw. __________________ If your front porch collapses and kills more than three dogs...You just might be a redneck

July 27, 2013, 08:03 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Regardless of the cause, moving the cylinder back or forward will not change the sideways relationship between the rear of the cylinder and the stop stud. But it may help to know that the stop stud on the older guns was adjusted with a file as part of the cylinder fitting, so it is entirely possible that a very slightly different cylinder would have that problem. That is more of a possibility since the cylinder does not appear to be original to the gun (newer model extractor rod, for example). Jim

July 27, 2013, 09:06 PM	#12
1911Tuner Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: NC Piedmont/Foothills Posts: 666	Check the screw anyway. It's the simplest. If that's not it, check to see if the yoke is bent. If that's not it, then start looking at the possibility that the gun isn't wearing its original yoke, crane, or cylinder...or all three. __________________ If your front porch collapses and kills more than three dogs...You just might be a redneck

July 27, 2013, 09:43 PM	#13
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	I thought the condition described was normal for the smaller J frame revolvers. Let me check. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

July 27, 2013, 10:56 PM	#14
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	That stud has to be just right; there is not a lot of leeway because it has to catch the cylinder but not interfere with the rims. I suppose the rims could be oversize to cause that problem, but I have never seen that happen. In the newer J-frames, there is no cylinder stop stud. Instead, its function is taken over by a boss on the frame which has to be less expensive than the old stud, which was inserted in a drilled hole and riveted in place. That did have the advantage that it could be replaced if for some reason it was too short and allowed the cylinder to come out. AFAIK, it was considered part of a permanent assembly, was never sold by S&W and was replaced only by the factory. Jim

July 29, 2013, 06:57 PM	#15
SgtLumpy Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2013 Posts: 779	Whatever it was, a tuneup at my gunsmith brought it back into spec. Now this little chief shoots and operates smoother than it ever did. Sgt Lumpy