45-70 load data???

[30cal_or_higher]

Hi gents!

I have a Katahadin barrel in 45-70 for my TC Pro Hunter and I need to start rolling my own for it...I spent enough money on boxes of Hornady lever Revolution, but it puts out great groups at 100 for a 20" barrel...oh yeah its only a 20" barrel so the recoil is fantastic! thank God for a Flex Tech Stock huh.

I have Lee Dies and a RCBS Rockchucker press and I would love some info on powders, bullets etc. I love this gun for woods carry and I would love to send some of my own through it, but after reading a few other posts I am a bit nervous and minor confusion has set in over the sheer number of powders I have heard working in this cartridge.

If any of you out there has any advice or criticism of my stubby barrel choice, then I am ready for it and thank you all in advance for the info.

A final note I think it only weighs around 5 pounds and my cousin thinks I am crazy for shooting it but I love it so much, its just getting a bit expensive to keep on buyin boxes of rounds you know!

Thanks again and I will be around.

[crimsondave]

Your really gonna have to just load a few and try it. I'd start with a fast burning powder with that short of a pipe. Reloader #7 is a good place to start. You can buy the leverevolution bullets to reload with. I have some, I just haven't loaded any yet.

Just bear in mind, there are 3 levels of load in 45-70. This is because trap door rifles will not stand up to heavier loads that modern firearms will withstand. ALSO, Ruger #1 rilfes have their own reloading data. DO NOT load with this data without consulting the firearms manufacturer. In fact, I'd contact them and ask them which level of reloading they recommend.

H&R told me I could reload my buffalo rifle to the 1895 Marlin data, but not the Ruger #1 level.

P.S.: Good luck with your future shoulder replacement surgery. A five pound 45-70 has GOT to be nasty.

[30cal_or_higher]

Thanks Dave!

Its not so bad with the stock type. I shoot it mostly off hand the bench is kinda tough on your elbows and cheek when it hops a bit. I have found shooting sticks to be an excellent way to fire accurately. It just fits so nice at only 34 inches total length...its kinda a cute little thing actually, but Nasty is a good way to put it.

I was kinda thinkin about some 400+ grain bullets I know there are a bunch of different kinds out there and the cast ones are looking pretty good to me...cheap and fairly reliable.

Thanks again and I will let you guys know of progress

[B78-22250]

I am shooting a NEF 45/70 I have two loads that are sub moa.
Starline brass,CCI br2 primers, 50gr reloader 7, 300gr. Sierra hp.
The next load is the same but uses 400gr Speer fn. Work your loads up
and watch for pressure signs. This is a level 2 load for the 1895 guide gun.
This load comes from an article by Col.Craig Boddington. Yes it is painful off the bench. Hope this helps.

[fineredmist]

What are you useing this .45-70 for, target of hunting? If you are target shooting you really don't need 1800 +/- fps loads and if you are hunting you still don't need that much gun. Remember the original .45-70 load only gave you 1300 +/- fps and it effectively did it's job.
Check the Alliant powder site and load according to their recommdations for the trapdoor loads. 5744 powder will give you what you need and not beat your brains out. Heavy recoiling guns have a tendency to bring on flinching and other bad habits.

[Christchild]

I used Accurate Arms Powder, AA1680 (as per the Barnes #4 Manual, for Barnes 250 gr. bullets) when I loaded for my Dad's .45/70. You can download the Accurate Arms Load Data in a PDF at their website here, and the Barnes .458" load data here.

I also bought for my Dad, 5 boxes of 20 bullets per box, of Barnes TSX 250 grain in .458". Me personally, I'd stay with bullets 300 grain and under, for velocity and recoil reasons, and You still have PLENTY killing power.

As others have posted, check with the manufacturer of Your rifle, and make sure You get the correct load data that rifle needs.

Congrat's on Your .45/70!!!

[Al57]

30 cal, I feed my NEF Handi rifle a 405 gr. Rem JSP on top of 32 grs. of IMR 4198. It runs about 1350 FPS and approximates original trapdoor ballistics. It's clean, mild shooting, accurate and a proven quick whitetail stopper. If you are looking for an effective load that can be shot all day comfortably in your light rifle, you may want to give this load a try .

[Ivan]

Lee 459-450 or Lyman 500 grain Schmitzer with IMR 3031. I get around 1450 fps out of a 28 (?) inch barrel. I was getting accuracy around 1.5 inch 5 shot groups with micrometer sights. Perhaps it would do better with a scoped rifle, but never tested with one.

I also tried AA 2495 but sometimes the rounds did not go off even though the primer did. It just burned a hole through the middle of the powder charge and fused it into a nice crumbly mass.

I believe I also tried IMR 4198, but the velocity variation was way too high and varied significantly depending on whether the powder was forward or aft in the case.

My best results have been with the Lee bullet, but have not shot enough of the others to be sure it is really the bullet. I have also tried the Lyman 535 grain Postell bullet, but don't have any memory of the results.

Bullets are cast of pure wheel weights and weigh 460 grains or so. Anything that is 1.5 grains higher or lower than the average weight is culled and that still leaves a LOT of bullets to shoot. I believe the I used was Alox with a heated sizer down to .458 inch. Liquid Alox also worked but not as well because the grooves were not filled.

YMMV.
- Ivan.

[Hog Buster]

I have a H&R Buffalo Classic for which I load 55 grains of Reloader7 behind a 300grain JHP. With the long barrel it's very accurate with this combo, but it kills on one end and maims on the other.

By the way, I have never found a lead bullet that shoots satisfactorily in this rifle.

[crimsondave]

Hog Buster, I have that same rifle. I'm gonna try your load out. Are you using Remington JHPs by chance? That's what I've got.

[Hog Buster]

Yeah Dave, that's what I'm using.

How does yours do with lead bullets?

[crimsondave]

Have not tried any. I'm a little nervous about using lead in a pipe that long.

Have you shot any of the Leverevolution bullets out of it yet?

[Hog Buster]

Dave

The lead bullets I tried didn't group well. Some didn't group at all. After trying several different loads and bullet weights, I hung it up. I thought it might be kinda neat to kill 'em with a big old lead bullet, but quickly found that it would be like hunting with a smooth bore.

And yes, I tried the Hornady's, but not while hunting, a hunting buddy gave me a box. They shot OK, but are a bit pricey. He uses them with much success and claims they really knock deer on their ass.

I just use the peep sights that came on the rifle, no scope. After a few years using them in the Marine Corps on a Garand I kinda like looking thru that little hole. On a good day I'm able to keep them all in a 2 1/2 inch group at a hundred yards, plenty good enough for hunting.

Saturday is opening day for primitive weapons deer hunting here. I'll be out there with the 45/70. When I get home it may not have horns, but it'll have meat.

[30cal_or_higher]

the main reason I bought this thing was to take it to the woods. I have a very thick and heavy wooded area in western MI that I hunt and its small and compact and easy to carry when sneaking throught the woods.

I am currently sending 325gn hornady leverrevolution ammo through it and it has pretty immpressive groups off-hand at around 50 to 75 yards with open sights. I like the cleanliness of this round and would like to load similar for future hunting needs.

I then threw a cheap tasco Red Dot on it and am going ot try it out. the groups were the same and the sight seemed to keep its integrity after a few sight in rounds....it says it will handle a 357mag or a shotgun w/3"mag slugs so I figured it would be up to the task of the lightweight thumper. My longest shot would realistically be out to 150 but that is few and far between where my property is and at that time I am really picking throught the trees so a scope with some magnification would help there but I am keeping it real and looking for the 50 to 75 range and not having to go looking for the animal...I like it when they just fall over...saves time.

So to answer to Fine Red's question of hunting or target is....HUNTING definitely! I take enough punishment from my hopped up '06 while target shooting and I do not feel like I should subject my shoulder to much more abuse then that, I am not getting any younger.

Thanks again to all and I will keep ya'll posted on the future hunt!

[30cal_or_higher]

Ivan,

Do you not have any memory of the results from that 535gn Lyman because it knocked you out or was it just that punishing your sub concious mind said to forget about that round?

[Bigoledude]

A very good friend of mine just shot a young bison (about 1000 pounds) clean through and, breaking both shoulders. They never recovered the bullet. The distance was about 60 yards. His bullet is a 410 grain wide-flat-nose running 1200fps. The recoil is very acceptable. I'll surely never come across one of our Russian boars tougher than 2 1/2 feet of buffalo.

This "hunt" was on a ranch where the bison are raised like cattle. The rancher is a neighbor and he didn't care what my friend did with the buffalo he was buying for the freezer! My buddy was itching to see what his pet load in the 45-70 would do on a bison.

Maybe if I were in dangerous big-bear country, I would want a little faster bullet. But, for anything I'll ever confront, this is waaay more performance than I'll ever need! I just don't understand why anyone would WANT the recoil if they don't NEED it.

[Hog Buster]

Bigoledude

"I just don't understand why anyone would WANT the recoil if they don't NEED it."

Truer words were never spoken. It's just that to get a few days jump on the regular gun season the LDWF says you have to use a primitive weapon on their list. My 45/70's on that list and I wanted to get the extra few days of hunting.

When I touched it off this morning the earth shook, leaves, branches and squirrels fell out of nearby trees. The woods went completely silent. When I recovered I noticed that the 130 pound doe that I was aiming at looked like she had been hit with an RPG and was very dead. Oh well, I needed sausage anyway. Way too much gun for Whitetails, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

By the way, I've seen some very strange things in "Da Parish" but never buffalo, were they blown in by Katrina?

[Bigoledude]

Watcha say Hog Buster

Good to meet a "cousain" here! Actually the buffalo was shot by a friend-of-a-good-friend. My bud is Wes Daems in Montana. He is a master leather man. His work can be seen at

www.7xleather.com

We had 13 feet of slop in the house from Katrina. 4 feet in the attic! Just got back into the house last Christmas.

I certainly was not trying to discourage anyone from shooting the 45-70. My point was if a 410gr bullet @1200fps can shoot clean through a 1000 pound buffalo, with very manageable recoil, why load them any hotter? My cheap-ole H&R 45-70 is my most fun gun to use.

No, we don't have any bison here in Chalmette but, we sure do have a lot of these big-ole Russian boars down here. If you'd like to make a trip, c'mon down and join me and my boys. They are tearing up the new levees as fast as the Corps of Engineers can build 'em!

We lived in Chalmette but, owned a farm in Plaucheville (Avoyells Parish) until I was 30 years old. We passed through New Roads thousands of times. I could go for summa-dat hot bread from Didier's bakery right now! You're probably too young to remember the Bakery.

Does that False River still fill-up with poule d'leau (Coot) in the winter?

PM me.

[Hog Buster]

Bigoledude

Yeah Katrina made a mess down there, I know, I was in Jefferson Parish. A couple of years later Gustav kicked a little butt here. Glad you're back in "Da Parish".

Didier's is long gone, but the poule deau are still paying visits to False River.

We're covered up in hogs here too. I been working up some loads for pistol and rifle using them as test subjects. Got 4 this morning using a 30/30. 28 grains of Reloader 7 behind 150 grain Hornady SP. Looks like it may be a fairly good load.

I think I'll load the 45/70 down a bit and try it again for whitetail cause " Po-yi dem last loads wuz jes to hot dere".

Pass a good time and keep dry........ I'll see you later.......HB

[Edward429451]

A 410 at 1200 fps broke both shoulders on a young 1K LB Bison and exited? Is that for real?

I have to tone down my Elk load of a 400 gr @ 1699 fps then.

You gents that have no confidence in lead are having predictable results with shooting factory lead bullets. I think their all undersized, have been TME. Try A fatter bullet and your 45/70 may just come alive with accuracy an no leading! Mine did. I shoot .460 bullets out of my 1895, but I reload so you may have to get with a local reloader or start yourselves!

[B78-22250]

I have shot eastern whitetails with both of my loads posted above. The 300 jhp sierra, and the 400 gr speer. The result is a dead deer lots of terminal damage. Some may call it overkill I say there is no such thing. I want to kill the animal as fast and humane as possible and these loads get the job done. For penetration I read an article where a 500gr rn solid penetrated 5' yes thats 5 feet of soaked news paper and 2 feet of earth. Thats a total of 7 feet of penetration. The beauty of this old war horse is it can be loaded from mild trapdoor loads to near 458 mag loads in the proper rifle.

I love my Nef and it is my favorite deer rifle. I have a 7-08-22-250-222.280AI.
But for brush hunting where ranges are 150 yards and less this is the ticket. With a 400 gr load I don't think I would be afraid to shoot any animal in north america.

[Ivan]

Hi 30cal or Higher,

There really isn't that much difference between a 535 grain Postell bullet and a 510 or so grain Schmitzer bullet. It is just that I did a LOT of accuracy testing with the Lee 450 on paper and with a chronograph. I did much less with the Schmitzer and hardly at all with the Postell bullet. Thus I can quote a fair amount of data with the Lee bullet and much less with the others. I also can tell you that the shot to shot variation with 4198 was way too high with the Lee bullet but didn't even TRY that powder with the others.

The recoil is fairly stiff, but the gun is also about 10 pounds or so. I also have a gun that weighs about 14 pounds but haven't shot it yet.

- Ivan.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

to the OP... if you are going to reload the Hornady brass from your LE ammo once fired, work up very slowly, those cases are shorter than SAMMI spec, to allow the longer L.E. bullets to function through the lever actions... IMO, Hornady should not be calling the cartridge 45-70 with brass that short, you could easily get excessive pressures with those short cases...

this winter I'll be doing a pretty large 45-70 load testing ( I have 4 guns I'll be developing loads for... from my 14" Contender, to my Guide Gun ) I'm trying to do at least two levels of loading... my Contender, my Remington double rifle & my Martini "safari" will get sane loads, & I've been reading of African safari loads ( for use with big bear ) for my Guide gun... all my brass will be Starline, the +P loads will be in nickel cases to further identify them as hot ( I always write the recipe on the box, & include +P on my hot loads ) I'm trying 4-5 different powders, & 4-5 different bullets, goal is to have a deer / elk type load for the 3 sane loads ( favored load & COL may very per gun, as I'm loading for each specific gun ) I'm hoping for good accuracy, both long & short distance...

I've shot a couple very hot test loads in my guide gun, & expected them to be pretty punishing, but my barrel is ported, & the gun has the stock recoil pad plus a leather butt cuff, & the gun was very easy shooting... ( at least was very comfortable to me... however my front sight fell off during initial testing... that has since been fixed ) the same loads would not be safe in my Contender, or Remington double rifle, but expect those would hurt a bit more ( I bought the Guide gun lightly used, & the ported barrel would not have ben a 1st choice, but I'm liking it right now for the +P loads )

[Ivan]

Hi Magnum Wheel Man,

What powders will be tested for your .45-70s?

- Ivan.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I load so many cartridges, that I can't remember off the top of my head, here at work what powders I chose as test powders... but I'll try to remember to look at my sheet when I get home today... even though I have quite a few powders on hand, I ordered in a couple just for these tests... one I do remember for sure was AA 2015