Should you rest your hand between the fore-end and a support?

[David_S]

Long ago I was taught that when resting the fore-end of your rifle on a log or boulder you should place your hand between the support and the fore-end. I can't remember the reason, or even if one was actually given - a 10yr old kid did not question the wisdom of a retired Naval Commander in those far off days. Anyway I have always followed this practice when hunting or target shooting.

But recently I have started to wonder. My son reported that in a shootout with a mate using just the one .22 rifle his friend who rested the rifle directly on the support had the better grouping.

Questions which come to mind are:

What about a bipod? Isn't this the same as resting directly on a support? Is it Ok with a fully floating barrel but not with a bedded or partially bedded barrel? And what about rifles which like a bit of fore-end pressure such as my .243? This rifle does not shoot consistently with a bipod probably for this reason.

I am not into serious competition just hunting and the occasional family shoot-out but would be interested to hear your comments.

David

[gianelli280]

I've heard its only resting the barrel on the support that will affect accuracy, not the stock itself.. I was told placing the barrel on support will inhibit the harmonics of the barrel, since the barrel has only one free direction to flex and that is up.

I've always used the stock of the rifle to support my aim. Be careful if your barrel is floated, because the pressure of the rifle on top of the stock might cause them to make contact, which will mess up a shot too.

Also figure that your hand holding the stock is support itself, so why should that be much more different from a fixed support? A few of my shooting buddies do that anyway, just cause they're comfortable with it, and you can ball your hand into a fist to bring the rifle up to a more comfortable shot.

[davlandrum]

What I was taught (and am teaching my kids) is NEVER put the barrel on a rest, and only put the fore-end on a "soft" surface (sand bag, padded rest, hand, etc). The reason I was given is the hard surface will cause it to jump really fast, where as the padding gives some downward travel before the jump, allowing the bullet to clear.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Of course, this all could be a concocted reason so kids don't scratch dad's rifle as well....

[David_S]

Gianelli wrote

I've heard its only resting the barrel on the support that will affect accuracy, not the stock itself.. I was told placing the barrel on support will inhibit the harmonics of the barrel, since the barrel has only one free direction to flex and that is up.

Yes, that makes sense and also what davlandrum said

only put the fore-end on a "soft" surface (sand bag, padded rest, hand, etc).

A fore-end on a hard surface could push the stock against the barrel interfering with the harmonics. The .22 rifle my son was using had a heavy barrel and I think was also free-floating so there was little danger of the stock being pushed against the barrel when his friend rested it on a support. I must ask whether the rest was hard (rock or log) or soft.

As for my .243 this is a Winchester Model 70 featherweight and you can see the stock moving relative to the barrel when the shooter grips the stock behind the bipod. As this rifle seems to like a bit of fore-end pressure the bi-pod is obviously affecting accuracy. The rifle may just be too light for a bipod?

Any more comments - David

[Nnobby45]

It's been a basic, common, and correct marksmanship practice for generations to place your hand under the stock of your rifle rather than place stock or barrel on hard object.

Real simple. The hard object changes the POI--usually causing it to go high. Sometimes way high.

Under some combat conditions, there may not be a choice but to rest the barrel or fore end on a hard object. That's why it's prudent to experement and find out how much difference it makes at various ranges.

I've found that using sandbag rests from a bench make little difference, but still place my hand on the sandbag when sighting a hunting rifle, or combat rifle.

Re: Bipods in the previous post. ---Just read a Farnum quip where a student showed up in a rifle course with his newly install bipod on his AR and discovered that his previously well zeroed MOA rifle was now hitting a foot high and left and reduced to MOC (minute of country ) accuracy.

[David_S]

The .22 rifle my son was using had a heavy barrel and I think was also free-floating so there was little danger of the stock being pushed against the barrel when his friend rested it on a support. I must ask whether the rest was hard (rock or log) or soft.

My son tells me they were using an old tyre so it would probably have a bit of give unlike a rock or log. The barrel was not freefloating.

Personally I will stick with what the retired Naval Commander taught me and keep my hand between the stock and support. Thanks for the comments everyone.

David

[Zak Smith]

Hmm

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[David_S]

Hmmmmm! too

David

[T. O'Heir]

One should never rest the barrel, of any rifle, on anything. It'll literally push the barrel up. Even one with a pressure point.
A bipod should be attached to the forward sling swivel stud without doing anything to the barrel. Sometimes the screw goes in too far and adds a pressure point that shouldn't be there. That may be the issue with your rifle.
Barrels never get fully bedded. Bedding should only go into the barrel channel out under the chamber area and no farther.

[tackdriver]

It's been a basic, common, and correct marksmanship practice for generations to place your hand under the stock of your rifle rather than place stock or barrel on hard object.

I won't get into logical falacies here, but I was taught long ago by a very good benchrest shooter to rest the forend and take your support arm and curl it either under the rifle where it wasn't touching anything but the bench, or to curl it back so your support hand rests under the buttstock.

And let me tell you what, that won me many a Boy Scout shootin' match.

[Jim Watson]

When I was coming up, it was recommended to keep the hand between the foreend of the rifle and any artificial support for HUNTING or to sight in for HUNTING. The stated reason being that a direct support could change the point of impact and that improvised supports would have different effects from log to tree to rock to fencepost.

But for benchrest TARGET shooting, the foreend should be directly on the sandbag rest. That is steadier and more consistent.

Note that Zak's guys are shooting with ARs with tubular foreends, which is about as free floating as you can get. Hardly anything will affect that setup, within the accuracy requirements of 3-gun competition. But they are not shooting a benchrest match, either, they are shooting FAST and they will soon be moving on to their next target array.

Check out a BPCR match someday and watch the shooters with their Sharps' barrels directly in the cross sticks. The conventional wisdom would lead you to think they couldn't hit anything. That would be wrong.

[GoSlash27]

I was taught to support the buttstock with my free hand when shooting from a rest.

[zippy13]

Originally Posted by gianelli280

I was told placing the barrel on support will inhibit the harmonics of the barrel...

It doesn't inhibit the harmonics, it changes them. It's like putting your finger on a guitar fret, you don't quiet the sound of the open string, but the note's higher. Which isn't a bad thing if you can reproduce the exact same change with each shot (same location and same force), a difficult task at best. That's why barrels are floated, so you get the open string note with every shot.

since the barrel has only one free direction to flex and that is up.

Not exactly, think about it... We've all seen spellbinding demonstrations of harmonic standing waves. The deflection is equally above and below the center. Also, nothing dictates the wave be restricted to two dimensions.
You're probably thinking the force is up because of muzzle hop -- it's the Newtonian result of the recoiling barrel's eccentricity to the reaction's centroid. And, the whole gun hops, not just the barrel. Eliminate the eccentricity and you eliminate hop, but the barrel's harmonic vibrations persists.
A point to ponder: We all know about muzzle velocity -- the higher a bullet's velocity, the greater the recoil. But, what about the bullet's spin... does it cause a torque reaction at the muzzle? or along the full barrel length? if yes to either, does the torque increase with velocity? or, is it determined by bullet mass and number of twists?

Back on topic,
I was taught the old school way... arm in the sling and free hand on the stock. If you were gonna put anything on a rest, it was your elbow on your knee, or... Otherwise you got a GI boot in the butt. They were pretty inflexible back in the day, or perhaps too cheap for bipods.

[darkgael]

"I was taught long ago by a very good benchrest shooter to rest the forend and take your support arm and curl it either under the rifle where it wasn't touching anything but the bench, or to curl it back so your support hand rests under the buttstock."

Yes, that is what I was told also. It has always worked for me. The one exception is with very heavily recoiling rifles (.375/.416) which require more barrel control; then my approach is to hold the fore end and rest my hand on the support.
Pete