Entering into the BP world - Page 2

Doc Hoy · January 26, 2014, 07:59 AM

To B.L.E.,

I think the organizations are wise to set the rules as they do. Three reasons:

1. More safety in some instances is better and this is true almost without regard to the additional time or inconvenience created by the rule. (Two people shooting together is more than twice as dangerous as one shooting alone.)

2. At such events, there is no way to be certain that all of those present have the same attitude toward safety and so to reduce the situation to what one might call the lowest common denominator is (IMO) about the only smart way to do business.

3. These organization are not prepared to handle the fall-out of an accident. Someone gets hurt at one of the events, and the liberal press attention and potential litigation could destroy not only the sanctioning organization but could harm the shooting world as a whole.

I don't like these rules (So I don't go to such events, nor do I shoot at established ranges of any kind.) but I do acknowledge that in some instances we can't operate without them.

To Chestnut Forge,

Mykeal has a very good response regarding the accurate measurement of powder including the different weight to volume of the different powders we might use. It is very interesting. Hope he is reading this and perhaps he will respond. I have come to the conclusion that the best way to look at accuracy of the firearm is consistency of the charge. Some years ago I developed a little telescopic measure for CVA 1400 flask. I troubled myself to no end trying the mark the measure with the weights it was throwing until I finally gave up marking it with specific weights and just allowed the marking rings to speak for themselves. So, for example, my Walker shoots best when the measure is set to one ring, and my Remington shoots best at another ring and so forth.

Back to B.L.E.,

Good points and your post goes to where I was going based upon Mykeal's standard response when addressing different weights to volume of different powders. Most measures are volumetric which means they are almost always wrong as regards the weights of charge they throw. I have never found, for example, a 30 grain spout for a CVA 1400 that actually throws 30 grains of anything. But as your post implies, I like the .30 grain spout using Pyrodex in my .36 caliber brass pistols.

Chestnut Forge · January 26, 2014, 08:19 AM

I shoot plain old Goex, 2f in the rifles, 3f in my revolvers.

Doc Hoy · January 26, 2014, 08:31 AM

So CF's challenge is much simplified because he shoots only one powder. Makes the process of knowing where to set a telescopic measure or which of the fixed volume spouts to use.

I am a little more careful in my cartridge BP loads but when shooting cap and ball revolvers, I shoot what I can get.

Recently went to an auction in FL on 301 south of Zephyrhills. They always have a bunch of firearms and stuff there. One of the items was a tool box full of BP stuff. I gave 29.00 almost sight unseen.

Had about twenty pounds of bullets, some of which I traded to a LGS employee for some brass, and some of which I just melted down. Had some loading stuff, two flasks measures, bullet starters. I sold a bunch of that stuff on the evil bay for 31.00. But most importantly it had over five pounds of powder, all of it still loose. Pyrodex P and R and Goex.

Bill Akins....This place is about forty miles from you. Wednesday nights at 7:00 is when the firearms start to go.

Pahoo · January 26, 2014, 11:46 AM

Okay, let's be honest with each other. No, for now, I'll only speak for myself. I mostly shoot M/L rlfles during classes or in a group, I always teach and use a precision powder measure. However, there are times when I load directly from a flask, with the use of a calibrated spout. My flasks either have the PB or Gate valve. Regardless of how I load, I always take precautions prior to pouring down the barrel and "NO," Blowing down the barrel is not one of them. ...

Be Safe !!!

Hawg · January 26, 2014, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Blowing down the barrel is not one of them.

Why is that a problem? Its already been fired. Its not going to go off and blow out the back of your head.

B.L.E. · January 26, 2014, 01:52 PM

I guess it may be possible that blowing down a barrel will fan an ember and keep it alive. Anyway, it's another NMLRA rule.

Cannon crews are required to plug the vent when swabbing the barrel so that air can't go in and out potentially fanning an ember in the barrel.

I'll admit that I often charge revolver cylinders from the flask when I'm shooting by myself on the farm. The chances of there being a live ember in one of the chambers is about the same as being struck by lightning. However, when you are by yourself out in the woods and you do have a mishap, consider the fact that there will be nobody there to take you to the emergency room.
When you have an accident at a club during a big shoot, there's a good chance that one of the competitors there will be a doctor.

Doc Hoy · January 26, 2014, 02:04 PM

If you put a little tongue into it, it tastes pretty good.

Pahoo · January 26, 2014, 03:24 PM

Quote:

I guess it may be possible that blowing down a barrel will fan an ember and keep it alive. Anyway, it's another NMLRA rule.

Not only that, but it's the most stupid and potentially dangerous practice, that I learned, during my BuckSkinner days. ....

Actually saw it happen, many years ago, at Friendship ....

Be Safe !!!

Hawg · January 26, 2014, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Actually saw it happen

Saw what happen?

B.L.E. · January 26, 2014, 04:12 PM

Allegedly, the moisture from your breath keeps the fouling soft. Some black powder cartridge shooters use a blow tube to blow through the barrel from the breech end after a shot.

Me, I'll just run a wet patch through the bore between shots, does the same thing and puts out any embers that might be down bore.
Not a dripping wet patch, mind you, but a kind of damp patch followed by a dry patch. Last shot's dry patch becomes this shot's wet patch so I'm using only one cleaning patch per shot on average.

Old Stony · January 26, 2014, 05:46 PM

I realize the op asked for tips toward helping him get started shooting his new acquisition, and I have a good one.....buy a book. Asking other black powder shooters their opinions ends up with everything but a fist fight over technique. I've learned, for instance, you never bring up the question of blowing down a barrel without risking the possibility of seeing blood loss along the way. And by the way....I never blow down a barrel....

January 26, 2014, 07:59 AM	#26
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Coupla responses... To B.L.E., I think the organizations are wise to set the rules as they do. Three reasons: 1. More safety in some instances is better and this is true almost without regard to the additional time or inconvenience created by the rule. (Two people shooting together is more than twice as dangerous as one shooting alone.) 2. At such events, there is no way to be certain that all of those present have the same attitude toward safety and so to reduce the situation to what one might call the lowest common denominator is (IMO) about the only smart way to do business. 3. These organization are not prepared to handle the fall-out of an accident. Someone gets hurt at one of the events, and the liberal press attention and potential litigation could destroy not only the sanctioning organization but could harm the shooting world as a whole. I don't like these rules (So I don't go to such events, nor do I shoot at established ranges of any kind.) but I do acknowledge that in some instances we can't operate without them. To Chestnut Forge, Mykeal has a very good response regarding the accurate measurement of powder including the different weight to volume of the different powders we might use. It is very interesting. Hope he is reading this and perhaps he will respond. I have come to the conclusion that the best way to look at accuracy of the firearm is consistency of the charge. Some years ago I developed a little telescopic measure for CVA 1400 flask. I troubled myself to no end trying the mark the measure with the weights it was throwing until I finally gave up marking it with specific weights and just allowed the marking rings to speak for themselves. So, for example, my Walker shoots best when the measure is set to one ring, and my Remington shoots best at another ring and so forth. Back to B.L.E., Good points and your post goes to where I was going based upon Mykeal's standard response when addressing different weights to volume of different powders. Most measures are volumetric which means they are almost always wrong as regards the weights of charge they throw. I have never found, for example, a 30 grain spout for a CVA 1400 that actually throws 30 grains of anything. But as your post implies, I like the .30 grain spout using Pyrodex in my .36 caliber brass pistols. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 26, 2014, 08:19 AM	#27
Chestnut Forge Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2013 Location: Polk, Pa Posts: 123	B.L.E. I shoot plain old Goex, 2f in the rifles, 3f in my revolvers. __________________ Every gun I've been behind can out shoot me.

January 26, 2014, 08:31 AM	#28
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	CF and B.L.E. So CF's challenge is much simplified because he shoots only one powder. Makes the process of knowing where to set a telescopic measure or which of the fixed volume spouts to use. I am a little more careful in my cartridge BP loads but when shooting cap and ball revolvers, I shoot what I can get. Recently went to an auction in FL on 301 south of Zephyrhills. They always have a bunch of firearms and stuff there. One of the items was a tool box full of BP stuff. I gave 29.00 almost sight unseen. Had about twenty pounds of bullets, some of which I traded to a LGS employee for some brass, and some of which I just melted down. Had some loading stuff, two flasks measures, bullet starters. I sold a bunch of that stuff on the evil bay for 31.00. But most importantly it had over five pounds of powder, all of it still loose. Pyrodex P and R and Goex. Bill Akins....This place is about forty miles from you. Wednesday nights at 7:00 is when the firearms start to go. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 26, 2014, 11:46 AM	#29
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	I do and I know you do too !!! Okay, let's be honest with each other. No, for now, I'll only speak for myself. I mostly shoot M/L rlfles during classes or in a group, I always teach and use a precision powder measure. However, there are times when I load directly from a flask, with the use of a calibrated spout. My flasks either have the PB or Gate valve. Regardless of how I load, I always take precautions prior to pouring down the barrel and "NO," Blowing down the barrel is not one of them. ... Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

January 26, 2014, 01:52 PM	#31
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	I guess it may be possible that blowing down a barrel will fan an ember and keep it alive. Anyway, it's another NMLRA rule. Cannon crews are required to plug the vent when swabbing the barrel so that air can't go in and out potentially fanning an ember in the barrel. I'll admit that I often charge revolver cylinders from the flask when I'm shooting by myself on the farm. The chances of there being a live ember in one of the chambers is about the same as being struck by lightning. However, when you are by yourself out in the woods and you do have a mishap, consider the fact that there will be nobody there to take you to the emergency room. When you have an accident at a club during a big shoot, there's a good chance that one of the competitors there will be a doctor. __________________ Hanlon's Razor "Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."

January 26, 2014, 02:04 PM	#32
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	And actually.... If you put a little tongue into it, it tastes pretty good. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 26, 2014, 04:12 PM	#35
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	Allegedly, the moisture from your breath keeps the fouling soft. Some black powder cartridge shooters use a blow tube to blow through the barrel from the breech end after a shot. Me, I'll just run a wet patch through the bore between shots, does the same thing and puts out any embers that might be down bore. Not a dripping wet patch, mind you, but a kind of damp patch followed by a dry patch. Last shot's dry patch becomes this shot's wet patch so I'm using only one cleaning patch per shot on average. __________________ Hanlon's Razor "Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."

January 26, 2014, 05:46 PM	#36
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	I realize the op asked for tips toward helping him get started shooting his new acquisition, and I have a good one.....buy a book. Asking other black powder shooters their opinions ends up with everything but a fist fight over technique. I've learned, for instance, you never bring up the question of blowing down a barrel without risking the possibility of seeing blood loss along the way. And by the way....I never blow down a barrel....