The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 16, 2024, 03:14 PM   #26
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,951
Quote:
I'm guessing that's your sothern zone then since Rochester is northwest of NYC?
Southern Zone (per the game regs when I lived there) is most of the state. Look on a map, go about 50 or so miles north of Albany, and draw a kind of squiggly line across the state at that point. Everything south of that line was "Southern Zone".

I grew up about half way between Saratoga and Lake George, and hunted there and further north. Rocester is a few hundred miles west, and about a hundred miles south of there.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is online now  
Old April 16, 2024, 06:03 PM   #27
gwpercle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2012
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Posts: 1,759
The strongest would have to be a Ruger No. 1 ... it is a Lever action ...sort of ...
and that rascal would be heck for stout ... you could load it just as hot as you wanted !
Gary
gwpercle is offline  
Old April 16, 2024, 06:49 PM   #28
The Verminator
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2013
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
The strongest would have to be a Ruger No. 1 ... it is a Lever action ...sort of ...
and that rascal would be heck for stout ... you could load it just as hot as you wanted !
Gary
I passed on one of those about 15 years ago and haven't seen one since.

Still suffering non-buyer's remorse.

The Verminator is offline  
Old April 17, 2024, 04:57 AM   #29
jetinteriorguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2013
Posts: 3,207
Or, just get a Henry Long ranger in whatever flavor suits your needs.
jetinteriorguy is offline  
Old April 17, 2024, 05:01 PM   #30
Kestrel4k
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2011
Location: The Willamette Valley, in Oregon
Posts: 102
PO Ackley stated that he was able to shoot a 30-30AI chambered Win M94 /without/ the locking lugs (i.e. just the lever was holding the bolt closed), due to significantly lower bolt thrust from the AI case.

Much lower bolt thrust gives a greater variety of performance options than some have stated above.
Kestrel4k is offline  
Old April 17, 2024, 06:15 PM   #31
deadcoyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 13, 2009
Location: northern CA
Posts: 676
Not quite what you asked but I once owned a Steven’s model 325 in .30-30 with the “butter knife” bolt handle. That thing was super accurate and light and handy. Sold it to a friend for his kids first hunting rifle. Really kick myself about selling it. I can’t say if that action is stronger than a lever action.
deadcoyote is offline  
Old April 17, 2024, 06:45 PM   #32
The Verminator
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2013
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 410
Stevens 325: This is the Model 340 Savage.........a great gun sold under several names.

Speaking of the "AI" there's one on Gun Broker.

Listed as a Savage 340, it's a "Revelation" brand (still the Savage 340) and in AI with reloading equipment.
The Verminator is offline  
Old April 18, 2024, 11:48 AM   #33
1972RedNeck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 8, 2015
Posts: 214
Yeah, but I want a classic lever action in 30-30 AI...
1972RedNeck is offline  
Old April 18, 2024, 03:01 PM   #34
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,951
Quote:
Yeah, but I want a classic lever action in 30-30 AI...
So, go get a Win 94 or Marlin 336, get it rechambered, get dies load up, and go play!

What's the problem??
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is online now  
Old April 18, 2024, 04:34 PM   #35
Paul B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,808
"I don't have a 308 bolt action anymore but if I could find a 308 carbine I think I would load the case with 170gr 30-30 bullets pushed to around 2400fps for sort of a Super 30-30. And that would be how I ramped up the power in the 30-30 rifle. I already do loads like that in 30-06 cases and they are very pleasant to shoot."

Back in the late 1960s, GUNS Magazine ran an article titled, "Jacketed Dynamite" on doing that very thing, 30-30 bullets in the .308 and 30-06. IIRC, he also mentioned the .300 Savage. From 1964 to 1968 before I left California for good and forever, I hunted the extreme Northwest part of the state and used loads like that in a 1903 Springfield I'd cut the barrel back to 18.5" for hunting in that thick stuff. They did a nice job smacking deer down hard. IIRC, I mostly used the 170 gr. Speer 30-30 bullet as they had a bit more streamlined shape. Shots to 100 yards were rare and it was thick enough that most shots were at a lesser distance but there were a few open spots where shots to 150 to 200 yards were possible. My loads were similar to the ones in the magazine article.
Paul B.
__________________
COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!
Paul B. is offline  
Old April 18, 2024, 06:50 PM   #36
Pumpkin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2020
Location: Seguin Texas
Posts: 484
My M70 Lightweight is loaded with Speer (discontinued ) 165gr rnsp under IMR 4064. Although not as thin jacketed as typical 30-30 bullets it still gives very decisive results on deer and hogs. Groups really well too.
Pumpkin is offline  
Old April 18, 2024, 08:07 PM   #37
1972RedNeck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 8, 2015
Posts: 214
Quote:
So, go get a Win 94 or Marlin 336, get it rechambered, get dies load up, and go play!

What's the problem??
No problem. Just wanted to know which of the two was the stronger. I see a 336 in my future, hopefully after an 1886 in 45-90.
1972RedNeck is offline  
Old April 19, 2024, 08:55 AM   #38
The Verminator
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2013
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1972RedNeck View Post
Yeah, but I want a classic lever action in 30-30 AI...
A Model 94 carbine is very lightweight and will kick the crap out of you in that AI version..........loud, too.

Maybe the rifle version with a 24-inch barrel would be a better choice.

The Marlin rifle version is even a little bit heavier.
The Verminator is offline  
Old April 19, 2024, 02:50 PM   #39
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,596
A '94 carbine doesn't have to be "improved" to kick.

My neighbor the gunsmith had a Canadian Centennial with 26" octagon barrel that was a lot more fun to shoot.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old April 19, 2024, 03:11 PM   #40
Paul B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,808
"A '94 carbine doesn't have to be "improved" to kick."

Interesting. I have a couple of m94 carbines, one from 1911 and the other sometime in the mid 70s IIRC. At a close look, other than the carbine butt plate on the 1911 gun, they look pretty much the same. Guess it would depend on body configuration but the guns are noticeably different.

Take the 1911 year rifle, look at a suitable target and snap the rifle to the shoulder as if jump shooting a deer or bear. The sights are perfectly lined up. I've taken a few deer with that rifle and like how it handles but it flat out kicks the snot out of me.

The mid 70s rifle when I snap the rifle to my shoulder does not have the sights line up as on the 1911 gun. In order for me to get the rifle to do so I had to install a receiver sight after which the sights aligned up quite well. On closer look, the post 64 version has less drop at the stock which helps lessen the stock slap on my cheek. I've noticed this on several other post 64 M94s as well so I'm thinking that was one of changes made in 1964.
Paul B.
__________________
COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!
Paul B. is offline  
Old April 19, 2024, 03:21 PM   #41
georgehwbush
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 14, 2023
Location: down town USA
Posts: 244
oddly enough Hodgdon's leverevolution will push the same pill in the same "M94" at the same speed without as much felt recoil, or push it faster with about the same felt recoil.

the thing is that the 30-30 was loaded with powder suitable for very short barrels, (fast burning) and that quick snap of energy is why they kick the snot out of you.

reloading cures that.
__________________
"if you have a good shooting stance, you are not using cover correctly" father frog
georgehwbush is offline  
Old April 19, 2024, 03:24 PM   #42
georgehwbush
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 14, 2023
Location: down town USA
Posts: 244
but yes indeed; most factory loads in win 94 30-30 do kick the snot out of you. especially if you do not hold the gun in tight against you.

that is one reason my first reply as to which classic 30-30 to make an ackly improvement to, my choice would be the marlin 336, and the ones i've had were pretty accurate anyway.
__________________
"if you have a good shooting stance, you are not using cover correctly" father frog
georgehwbush is offline  
Old April 19, 2024, 04:44 PM   #43
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,596
Well, MY .30-30 is a Remington. It is strong, but as Ken Waters said about the Winchester 54, the brass isn't. Although the .30-30 has the superior rimmed design that chambers all the way in and there is not the extractor groove hanging out in space like a lot of rimless rounds.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old April 19, 2024, 06:40 PM   #44
snoeproe
Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2023
Posts: 37
The strongest lever action in 30/30 would most definitely be a savage 99. Problem is finding a model 99 in 30/30 cal which was not that common. The 300 savage performed much better with superior ballistics.
snoeproe is offline  
Old April 20, 2024, 10:43 AM   #45
Rifletom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2011
Location: So-Cal
Posts: 792
If you want strong and heavy for the 30-30 AI, perhaps the Henry Big Boy Steel would work. Just a thought.
Rifletom is offline  
Old April 20, 2024, 11:57 AM   #46
1972RedNeck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 8, 2015
Posts: 214
Don’t necessarily want heavy, just strong.
1972RedNeck is offline  
Old April 20, 2024, 12:02 PM   #47
Rifletom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2011
Location: So-Cal
Posts: 792
The above Henry is 7 lb.
Rifletom is offline  
Old April 20, 2024, 12:14 PM   #48
105kw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2017
Location: Columbia Basin Washington
Posts: 420
I like the Savage 99, but in 30-30, they ended production in 1942. So surviving Rifles are seen as collectable rather than shooters.
If you can find a shooter grade 99, I would really hesitate to have it converted. The first problem would be to find a Gunsmith that can work on one. The rotary mag is a bear to get back together.
I think a better bet in a used rifle is the Marlin 336. Prices are not bad for a straight shooter. They are a bit heavier the a 94, and most stocks are set up better for scope use with less drop in the butt. To me they are pleasenter to shoot.
The 30-30 AI should get you at least 150fps over factory, if not more.
Good luck, have fun.
105kw is offline  
Old April 20, 2024, 10:27 PM   #49
5whiskey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2005
Location: US
Posts: 3,676
The 94 action is strong enough to hold more than what a standard 30-30 puts out. Even though the locking bolt is at the rear of the action, that locking bolt is stout. I also doubt a 336 would get indigestion with 30-30 + 10% honestly.

I would not defile a Savage 99 with reaming the chamber to AI. For one, any usable donor rifle will cost a bit. Second off, keep that rifle collector grade if you do have it.
__________________
Support the NRA-ILA Auction, ends 03/09/2018

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=593946
5whiskey is offline  
Old April 25, 2024, 05:11 AM   #50
Braddock VC
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 12, 2020
Posts: 6
PaulB, I agree,my 94 carbine is a bugger on steroids with federal 170 grn factory loads, I tamed it a wee bit by fitting a weaver side mount and scope but nowadays the factory ammo lies in my safe and I roll my own with cast boolits.
I have a BLR in 308 and load that with cast boolits as well, 177 grn gas checked and mule snotted loads that run about 2100 -2200 at the muzzle are the dogs danglies shoot fine groups at 100 yards too, after the first flyer!
https://thefiringline.com/forums/att...1&d=1714039735
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 94 scope.jpg (573.9 KB, 11 views)
Braddock VC is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.08275 seconds with 11 queries