does it get any better than this in 9mm?

[cajun47]

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=177391

147 gr @ 1175 fps and 451 foot pounds.

the reviews are great and they say it uses a gold dot bullet. i would use this in my glock 19.

or this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...ductTabReviews

115 gr Muzzle Velocity: 1400 fps
Muzzle Energy: 500 ft. lbs.

i practice with 115 gr 9mm so maybe the +p+ 115 gr is better for me? but i don't see any reviews of the expansion or bullet brand.

also, which one might over penetrate more? or maybe not much difference between the two rounds?

[Willie Lowman]

Yep. That's pretty hot. Looks like that load is into .40 territory.

[Dashunde]

Yep, thats getting well into the energy of a good 40S&W, but take a look at a apple-to-apple Buffalo Bore comparison, the 9mm starts to pale:
9mm
40S&W
Just a quick study says the 40 has a large performance edge - 20% more muzzle energy punching a notably larger hole. But since a lot of 40's are built on 9mm frames I wonder how many of us would shoot more than a mag or two of that stuff.

[bossman]

To rich for my blood . But I bet they would be a fun round to shoot.

[lcpiper]

Look like they would do a great job of blowing your gun apart if it wasn't up to it too.

[THplanes]

the reviews are great and they say it uses a gold dot bullet.

None of the small manufacturers can get gold dot bullets at the moment. He's using montana gold which is a poor choice for self defense. If you go to the BB website, you can see it does not mention what HP he's using at the moment. There was a lot of bitching and complaining because the site use to say gold dot and people started getting ammo with MG bullets.

[TylerD45ACP]

lcpiper-- Look like they would do a great job of blowing your gun apart if it wasn't up to it too. HAHAHA. That was funny but my 5906 could eat those all day even though I wouldnt beat on my gun like that. Id keep this for specialized home defense In 1-2 mags at most. I would also shoot it at the range (500+ rounds) to make sure I was accurate with it.

[AK103K]

These are what I use in my 9mm's. Seems to be the choice with many of the departments that still use 9mm. 50 rounds a box for about the same money too.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/winche...t-series-ra9ta

[Boncrayon]

I'd rather penetration first rather than upping the energy. I stick with a Hornady Critical Defense in my LC9. Different approach to ballistics. Hornady and CIA collaboration.

[TylerD45ACP]

Nice rounds AK130K. Those are pretty much Black Talons without the "SCARY" black that made everyone want them outlawed. Also they thought the hooks could rip out all your guts. It does to some degree but not what 'They' say. When they expand the 6 hooks are there right? 127gr is a good weight too. I prefer 115 to 124 so 127 would be in their for me an extra 3gr's. I used 147gr. rarley but do like them for flavor and believe that they are making better loads for that weight.

[Coltman 77]

What handgun are you running these through cajun47?

[Don Glock]

don't get hung up on energy. it makes no difference in 9mm when it comes to wound ballistics. penetration, weight retention, and expansion are the most important attributes.

147gr gold dots are solid performers, 147gr HST are even better and retain more weight through hard barriers such as auto glass according to ATK's own LE website

[C0untZer0]

Just thought I'd re-post this from Winchester's site:

http://www.winchester.com/SiteCollec...law_bullit.swf

[orionengnr]

Yes. Placing a bunch of powder under a marginal bullet results in impressive numbers, but poor actual performance. Montana Gold bullets are nearly universally panned--do a search.

A well-designed bullet (such as a Gold Dot or a Barnes DPX) in a well-thought-out loading will get full expansion and penetration at a moderate speed and power level.

You want a Crown Vic with a supercharged 460 crate motor... or a box-stock Mustang GT?

[KyJim]

As THplanes said, Buffalo Bore is no longer using Gold Dots. Instead, they are using Montana Gold bonded hollow points. I've never seen any good test data on these bullets.

BB stopped using Gold Dots during the Great Ammo Shortage of '09, presumably because they couldn't get the Gold Dots from Speer.

[Don Glock]

both double tap and buffalo bore dropped gold dots for montana gold garge about two years ago. also, they both were still listing the bullets as gold dots for the longest time on the boxes and on their website after the change.

montana gold hollowpoints are not designed to expand, and they do so poorly. they're design for steel shoots as a bullet that won't fragment much and send metal back at the shooter.

another point, despite switching to the much cheap MG jhp's, both BB and DT kept their prices the same as they were when they loaded gold dots.

i buy my 10mm from mike at swampfox. he uses gold dots, and they meet their claimed velocities, unlike DT. it is still hard for mike to procure gold dots, especially at a price that he can make a little profit on. however, if he's out of gold dots on his website, he also offers hornady XTP's which are also great for 10mm. he offers golden saber, silvertips, and noslers as well, if you like those. he doesn't bother with MG because he knows what a quality bullet is.

[Jim243]

Ouch, pricy is not the word for it. At $1.20 per round for 9mm, it would be cheaper just to buy a bigger gun say a 357 mag, 357 Sig, 38 Super, 40 S&W or even a 45 ACP.

Also not sure how a 9mm compact pistol will hold up under +p+ ammo????

Jim

[AK103K]

Also not sure how a 9mm compact pistol will hold up under +p+ ammo????

I shoot it out of my Glock 26's on a fairly regular basis without issue. Im sure occasional use in most all the "modern" guns would not be an issue.


It would be nice if someone would take some of the more popular self defense ammo and run them side by side out of a couple of the more popular handguns and show the results, both with paper numbers and in gel or even better, living medium.

Theres just so much speculation as to whats "better", and I think a lot of it is just marketing hype swallowed eagerly and taken to heart. Do you really think those few extra fps or ft/pds between one or the other really make a difference?

[SoilworK777]

*cough*hydrostatic shock*cough*

[MikeNice81]

Those +P+ rounds are going to tear up most guns in a hurry. Most manufacturers recomend not going above SAAMI specs for a reason. Anything putting out that much energy is slamming your frame and springs pretty hard.

124gr+P or 147gr is the common issue ammo in 9mm now. My department issues the 124gr+P Federal HST to officers that choose 9mm. From every OIS report I've read it does the job.

If you want extra oomph from a bullet buy a rifle. In the real world, with modern bullets, you aren't going to see huge gains by going +p+ or even stepping up to .40S&W.

Save the extra money and invest in training. From my research that is the difference between a trip home and a trip to the hospital.

[precision_shooter]

does it get any better than this in 9mm?

In a word, Yes...

1,310fps, 437ft. lbs.
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...roducts_id=495

1,275fps, 445ft. lbs.
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...roducts_id=393

1,415fps, 511ft. lbs.
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...roducts_id=129

Still technically 9mm bullet.... .357 sig

1,450fps, 584ft. lbs.
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...roducts_id=395

1,550 fps, 614ft. lbs.
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...roducts_id=474

[Smaug]

AK103K: Did you see that disclaimer: "For use only in firearms rated for +P+"

As far as I know, there's no official SAAMI pressure spec for +P+. Therefore, there's no GUN rated for +P+, therefore, they are not taking any responsibility.

I'd stick with +P in a mid-weight, proven bullet. Gold Dot, Hydra Shok, XTP, Ranger, etc.

[NWCP]

Just a quick study says the 40 has a large performance edge - 20% more muzzle energy punching a notably larger hole. But since a lot of 40's are built on 9mm frames I wonder how many of us would shoot more than a mag or two of that stuff.

The HK USP was purpose built for the 40 cal. That being said the USP40 can certainly handle most any 40 cal load without suffering. As with any pistol when shooting hot loads the recoil spring may wear more rapidly with +P+ than with a +P, or standard load. As a result of the USPs original design purpose the HK USP9mm is overbuilt and will give the owner tremendous service life when properly maintained regardless the ammunition it's fed. While it will run 147gr ammo all day long I find the 124gr to be the most accurate out of the 9mm. JMHO

[AK103K]

AK103K: Did you see that disclaimer: "For use only in firearms rated for +P+"

Yup. I saw it. Ive shot a bunch of it and other +P+ out of a number of guns, and so far, not a hint of troubles. If anything, my Glock 31 shooting the standard 357SIG it was made to shoot, showed more wear on it than my 17's and 26's have shooting the +P+, and they have more rounds through them to boot. +P+ 9mm is basically equal to standard 357SIG by the way.

I dont shoot it in "older" guns, but the modern guns shouldnt have a problem. The warnings are just the lawyers covering their butts.

I still have some "hot" surplus SMG 9mm around here from back in the 80's. Now that stuff is "hot", and +P+ has nothing on it.

[cajun47]

"What handgun are you running these through cajun47?"

glock 19
------------------------------------------

http://www.sgammo.com/product/winche...p-ra9124n-ammo

that seems like a good deal i could bet my life on?