February 19, 2018, 04:17 PM | #126 | |||
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I think French's idea of implementing more widespread use of GVRO's is a mostly good idea and one that I support. However, you mention:
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"Arms" obviously includes, swords, spears, bows, arrows, ninja stars, catapults, pointed sticks, fresh fruit, and about a million other things too, and if you like we can consider them added into my position. However the issue we are discussing is the conflicts surrounding firearms specifically, and firearms are the reason this thread was started. Quote:
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February 19, 2018, 04:29 PM | #127 | ||||
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February 19, 2018, 04:52 PM | #128 | |
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GVROs...
<deactivate lurk mode>
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One of my concerns here is that all roads potentially lead to UBCs.
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February 19, 2018, 05:04 PM | #129 |
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If laws were an effective answer to this problem, the problem would have been solved long ago.
As far as applying “science” to this problem, a good “scientific” approach would require repeated demonstrable proof that a solution works or would work. If anything, “science” would seem to say laws don't work regarding this problem (since laws haven't effectively stopped the problem). I suggest history might be better than science as a tool for finding some solutions. |
February 19, 2018, 05:28 PM | #130 |
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And a link to an interview with the police chief of a school district that decided not to wait until after it happens:
http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/19/te...-on-the-floor/ The chief missed one point, though. The news guy asked if it's wise to bring guns into a school when the threat is on the outside. Reality check, Mr. Newsman -- if you have a shooter in your school, the threat is not on the outside, it's inside. The police are on the outside -- and who knows how far away. All the guns in the world on the OUTSIDE can't help when the bad guy with a gun is already inside. |
February 19, 2018, 05:58 PM | #131 |
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Colordoredneck, are you saying that only medically trained ppl can talk about meds and effects??? Guess i can talk about guns cause I’m not a armorer, or trucks cuz I’m not a gressmonkey...
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February 19, 2018, 06:10 PM | #132 | ||
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https://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/.../a-repost.html |
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February 19, 2018, 06:12 PM | #133 | |
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February 19, 2018, 06:23 PM | #134 | |
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Last edited by Aguila Blanca; February 19, 2018 at 10:29 PM. |
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February 19, 2018, 06:29 PM | #135 |
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In my little pea brained opinion the only thing that is ever going to work is to make schools a hard target. Gun control and mental health screening has more holes in it than a colander. Now, I know parents don't like the optics of it. I don't like the optics of it. But, it is not the 50's anymore. And, it is the only solution that will actually work.
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February 19, 2018, 07:14 PM | #136 |
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I would point out there are myriad of soft targets besides schools. School shooters sometimes have some beef with the school (not always). But someone dedicating to killing can look at lots of places to carry out such an act. A better solution is for people to be able to act to defend themselves. The debate about mandatory training is complex. I would prefer highly educated voters on the issues but we went down that road of using tests to discriminate.
Morally, I think gun carriers and voters have the responsibility to get up to speed. Should we mandate it? I had no problem with the CCW experiences in TX and OR, I would support them for concealed carry. For simple ownership, no.
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February 19, 2018, 07:16 PM | #137 | |
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There are a lot of things that can only be done by a community but people don't want to do the work of taking care of their own garden. |
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February 19, 2018, 07:21 PM | #138 | ||||
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"People use guns to kill each other because they are convenient not just effective. Requiring more of a shooting education and investment in order to access firearms legally, will make them less convenient. Someone will make the argument that people are going to just kill each other anyway, even if they have to use a different method; that is besides the point. The point is that firearms will be less convenient to the unstable making mass shootings less feasible, and by making these compromises the firearms community will be protected." And: "Many mass shootings are not about the act but inflating the killer. Many tie firearms into their ego (as I believe the latest perpetrator did) and are more inclined to use a firearm to carry out the act. Another important point is that the people who carry out mass shootings would rather I'm sure be remembered as a killer or a murderer, the label the gun provides, rather than as a psychopath or terrorist, the label that bombs, trucks, machetes, etc, provides."
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“Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".” ― --Thomas Jefferson Last edited by NateKirk; February 19, 2018 at 07:28 PM. |
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February 19, 2018, 07:32 PM | #139 | |
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P.S. Another article I think is worth mentioning is Larry Correia's thoughts on gun control. http://monsterhunternation.com/2012/...n-gun-control/ |
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February 19, 2018, 07:41 PM | #140 | |
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Now imagine a far left president, congress, and supreme court, and then combine that with another school shooting. The owner of the "cake" now has a gun put to his head and his cake taken anyway, every crumb. It's stone headed, unyielding thinking like this that makes me believe the 2nd amendment will be repealed sometime in my children's lifetime. It's just matter of the right factors lining up. Ownership rates and public opinion are not in our favor.
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February 19, 2018, 08:09 PM | #141 | ||||
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Nate, your sense that murders that don't involve firearms and rights that aren't described in the 2d Am. aren't part of this conversation is not well reasoned. It demonstrates a lack of concern with public safety or civil liberties in your analysis. When you use it as an excuse not to reason through comparable issues, you re-enforce an appearance that you are tightly focused on reducing the protection of the 2d Am.
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There is nothing in the logic of that observation that makes murder legal, and your erroneous factual assertion that the BOR made murder legal is bizarre. Your response isn't even a well turned fallacy. Your argument has problems where it lacks principle, lacks a factual basis and doesn't withstand the standards applied to other harms and other rights.
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February 19, 2018, 08:40 PM | #142 | |
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February 19, 2018, 08:42 PM | #143 | |
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February 19, 2018, 08:46 PM | #144 | ||
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February 19, 2018, 08:48 PM | #145 | ||
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Your statement that since the purpose of arms has not changed since the adoption of the bill of rights we can not use this as a reason to change the scope of the right. This would make sense in a static, theoretical, textbook environment, however, technology has changed, culture has changed, population densities have changed and these have a serious effect on the ramifications of the exercise of the right to bear arms. In the same way that paved roads were developed to accommodate faster cars, laws can be implemented to curb the side effects of changing situations. Whether these laws are constitutional is up for the supreme court to decide.
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February 19, 2018, 09:09 PM | #146 | ||||||
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If those things don't matter, what distinguishes a good argument from a poor one? Quote:
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Nate, it isn't effective to deny making an allusion you've just made. I don't doubt that you think your reasoning is sound; that's part of the problem. Quote:
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February 19, 2018, 09:22 PM | #147 | ||
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And adamBomb, it takes a lot more than control of Congress to get rid of the Second Amendment. If it were as easy as you suggest, they'd have done that before NateKirk was even born. |
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February 19, 2018, 09:42 PM | #148 |
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snooping?
What the heck are all those buildings in Utah?
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February 19, 2018, 10:22 PM | #149 | ||
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"But wait," you say, "that can't ever happen again." Well, yes, it can. There was an incident within (I think) the past year in which a student pilot flying out of Hartford, Connecticut, somehow managed to miss the entire airport he was supposed to land at and crashed just short of a Pratt & Whitney factory building across the river. I don't remember the details clearly, but my fuzzy recollection is that there was suspicion that it was an attempted terroristic act. Bottom line -- they'll use whatever they can get. Here it is: http://www.courant.com/breaking-news...011-story.html Hey, has anybody seen my pressure cooker? Quote:
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February 19, 2018, 10:57 PM | #150 |
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Incidents such as this are terrible and tragic. It's a natural reaction to want to do something to prevent it from happening again. I understand that -- I fell into that trap myself. Then, a few hours later, I woke up and realized that "doing something" just for the sake of doing something is not a useful, constructive, or effective approach. It's a knee-jerk reaction generated by a feeling of helplessness, and the helplessness is engendered by the realization that, if we're honest, we CAN'T prevent such incidents.
So it leaves us feeling like Jonathan Winters: https://youtu.be/uJPdTJ3n1RI?t=13 |
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