03 vs 98 - Page 3

**44 AMP** · June 19, 2015, 12:44 AM

Maybe you need to check those "JS" bullets???

Here is a different story, and one I have NO PROOF of accuracy, but I offer it for its seemingly sensible explanation...

It goes like this...

When the 8mm Mauser bore diameter was changed, all the rifles in service were recalled and changed. This new size was called the 8x57 I (Infantrie).

The old smaller diameter, was still used by some makers for civilian rifles, (and for some time), and so ammo for the smaller bore size was named 8x57 J (Jaeger - Hunter)

and of course the confusion with Fraktur script was inevitable...

sounds plausible, right?

mapsjanhere · June 19, 2015, 07:19 AM

The Germans never changed the bore on the existing rifles, all they did was change the transition cone to allow more room for the S bullet to prevent pressure spikes from the bullet touching the lands.

F. Guffey · June 19, 2015, 11:25 AM

Quote:

The Germans never changed the bore on the existing rifles,

The bore for both barrels is/was .311, the groove diameter was different. As I have said before, closing a bolt with slight resistance is a bad habit. I know, it can only happen to me but I have fired 8mm57 70 year old ammo that reached speeds of 2,900 fps, at the same time of firing too many cases took on the appearance of gas cutting.

For my Mauser barrels, .311" is the exception.

F. Guffey

Gunplummer · June 19, 2015, 04:05 PM

Had a .30 Mauser once. I ran .311 bullets through that. A lot of early European stuff was just plain weird.

James K · June 19, 2015, 09:25 PM

The original cartridge with its .318" bullet was called commercially the 8x57I (or J). The cartridge with the .323" bullet was called commercially the 8x57IS (or JS), the "S" standing for Spitzgeschoss, or "pointed bullet.")

I have seen several sources that say the Model 1898 rifles originally made for the older bullet were recalled and re-barrelled. The 1888 Commission Rifles were not rebarrelled, but a chambering reamer was run in to ream the chamber neck. (These are the ones marked with an "S" on the receiver ring; most were also converted to use the new charger (stripper clip) instead of the old en block clip.) But in most cases, sporting rifles made for the 8x57I were not converted or reamed, and many were brought back to the U.S. after both World Wars, causing problems and concerns for American ammo makers.

The leade was, of course, reamed at the same time as the chamber neck, but expanding the latter was necessary to allow the case neck to expand; if it could not, pressure increased drastically. The smaller groove diameter apparently gave no problems.

Jim

June 19, 2015, 12:44 AM	#51
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,791	Maybe you need to check those "JS" bullets??? Here is a different story, and one I have NO PROOF of accuracy, but I offer it for its seemingly sensible explanation... It goes like this... When the 8mm Mauser bore diameter was changed, all the rifles in service were recalled and changed. This new size was called the 8x57 I (Infantrie). The old smaller diameter, was still used by some makers for civilian rifles, (and for some time), and so ammo for the smaller bore size was named 8x57 J (Jaeger - Hunter) and of course the confusion with Fraktur script was inevitable... sounds plausible, right? __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

June 19, 2015, 07:19 AM	#52
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	The Germans never changed the bore on the existing rifles, all they did was change the transition cone to allow more room for the S bullet to prevent pressure spikes from the bullet touching the lands. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

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June 19, 2015, 04:05 PM	#54
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Had a .30 Mauser once. I ran .311 bullets through that. A lot of early European stuff was just plain weird.

June 19, 2015, 09:25 PM	#55
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The original cartridge with its .318" bullet was called commercially the 8x57I (or J). The cartridge with the .323" bullet was called commercially the 8x57IS (or JS), the "S" standing for Spitzgeschoss, or "pointed bullet.") I have seen several sources that say the Model 1898 rifles originally made for the older bullet were recalled and re-barrelled. The 1888 Commission Rifles were not rebarrelled, but a chambering reamer was run in to ream the chamber neck. (These are the ones marked with an "S" on the receiver ring; most were also converted to use the new charger (stripper clip) instead of the old en block clip.) But in most cases, sporting rifles made for the 8x57I were not converted or reamed, and many were brought back to the U.S. after both World Wars, causing problems and concerns for American ammo makers. The leade was, of course, reamed at the same time as the chamber neck, but expanding the latter was necessary to allow the case neck to expand; if it could not, pressure increased drastically. The smaller groove diameter apparently gave no problems. Jim