Closing distance

cloud8a · February 4, 2012, 02:24 AM

(25 Seconds into video)
This video is interesting because one, it does not involve a human attacker, but a dog, two because the officer sees the charge but waits while pointing his finger.
The dog is appears to be at full speed and close to 6 feet away before the officer reaches for his weapon. The officer may or may not have been able to actually get his weapon out and delivers a kick. I do not know if the officer was trying to restrain from drawing his weapon or unable to extract it from his holster quick enough.
BUT, how can we use this footage to see the realities of closing distance. I know dogs can move quicker and are smaller targets but is this a valuable tool to look at for these purposes?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBQ7q...ture=endscreen

Sarge · February 4, 2012, 02:36 AM

I didn't watch it for fear of flashbacks

I had two come in from behind my left shoulder, both 100 pounds or so and both in a flat-out charge. I didn't hear 'em until they were within 30 feet and didn't see them until they were at about 20... started shooting immediately and the first one decided 'no deal' when he was about five feet out with four holes in his chest & shoulders. He was DRT before he got 15 feet into his retreat. I had hair and blood on my pants leg afterward.

If I'd have screwed around a half-second longer either me or one of the three kids standing around me would have gotten mauled.

Jeff F · February 5, 2012, 09:43 AM

That was a beautiful shot with the taser!

irish52084 · February 5, 2012, 12:04 PM

I'm telling you, it's gotta be uniforms that dogs hate. I get to deal with a lot of unfamiliar dogs daily at work, and I don't screw around. I look for signs the house may have a dog, poop, toys etc... I've had plenty of dogs come out charging and it's never any fun. I can't carry at work, not even pepper spray, so the standard M.O. is to kick the dog away or hit them with our big heavy DIAD board/dog deterrent.

Ah, the joys of being a local UPS driver.

If I'm not a work and can carry where I'm at, then I keep my eyes on unfamiliar dogs, it's kind of habit now.

In the case of the officer, I thought he did ok. He faced the dog, stepped back to buy some time and space, kicked the dog away and drew his weapon. I think the other officer did an excellent job as well, being aware enough to draw a taser and then being able to hit a moving target quickly. That taser shot might have saved someone from getting bitten and it also means no shots were fired in close proximity to other people. Especially since the shot would have been at a steep down angle into pavement in a residential area.

C0untZer0 · February 5, 2012, 12:19 PM

That was a scary situation, you have an officer back-peddaling, drawing his weapon and going in circles, with civilians and another officer nearby. If he would have drawn and shot, instead of pointing at first... he would have been sending rounds in the general direction of 4 kids.

The thing that mitigates it somewhat is that the officer is mostly pointing his weapon down.

That dog didn't react to the taser the way you see humans do.

I've seen the YouTube video of a bull tazed with the large animal version and the bull went down like you see people do.

Police carry tasers that are supposed to be capable of putting down adult human males. That Rottwieller shook it off and kept going.

Skans · February 5, 2012, 01:07 PM

I thought the first officer reacted nicely with a swift kick to the dog's neck/face - backed the dog off enough for the officer to take control. I'm going to have to remember that.

Kimbertron · February 5, 2012, 02:34 PM

I am recovering from surgery on my hand from a dog attack. I watched the video but it didn't have CC that worked so i couldn't read what was going on. Did the dog get put down or taken away from the people that obviously shouldn't own a dog?

Nitesites · February 5, 2012, 03:04 PM

The animal was returned to the owner. The Animal Control spokesman stated that since the animal did not actually harm the officer, they had no cause to remove it. I would take issue with that as did the officer involved but...

Kimbertron · February 5, 2012, 03:13 PM

Quote:

The animal was returned to the owner. The Animal Control spokesman stated that since the animal did not actually harm the officer, they had no cause to remove it. I would take issue with that as did the officer involved but...

That is terrible, so because the officer was fast enough to protect himself they are allowed to keep a dangerous animal

. It sickening that someone has to be hurt from an attack for them to do whats right. Being attacked 2 weeks ago has been one of the most painful and emotional things I have ever had to go through, it really boggles my mind how someone would want to keep the dog or purposely teach a dog to behave like that.

Anyway, I deleted half of what I wrote... had the strong urge to use profanity. I just hope no one else gets hurt.

TXAZ · February 5, 2012, 03:39 PM

I was impressed with the officer's restraint and quick thinking. The foot was very quick thinking. I'm thinking next time, after the analysis from the animal control officer and the officer's comments, that he may use his service weapon instead of the taser on the next dog?

Wow.

Nanuk · February 6, 2012, 11:48 AM

The officer reacted quickly and correctly, that dog closed the gap FAST. Great dynamic fight, how the attacker (dog) circled to attack again. The lesson is that a determined attacker is going to continue to attack until you change his channel to oh crap which the Taser did. Notice really how fast the whole incident lasted? 2 seconds maybe?

The only mistake I saw was that as the cop was walking down the street he was not watching the dog and was not able to react until the dog was upon him.

Awesome shot with the Taser.

ltc444 · February 7, 2012, 03:57 AM

Response to post #4. Dogs don't hate uniforms. Mostly they hate people who they don't trust or who are in fear of them.

We had a UPS driver who delivered in our neighborhod, the dogs would jump in his truck and ride withhim when he made his deliveries. When he left the neighbor hood he would give them a treat and tell them to go home. The dogs would jump out and go back to their yards.

His relief driver showed fear and agression to those same dogs. They responded in kind. He was removed from the route at the request of the residents and never allowed to return.

I was a high mileage (75 to 100 miles per week) runner, door to door salesman and LEO. I was never attacked or bitten while engaged in those activities.

gnarSKYLER · February 8, 2012, 02:29 PM

That kick was sweet. That guy knows what's up!

Ruark · February 10, 2012, 08:45 AM

It's hard to say. It's not like the officer was just strolling past and the dog suddenly charged him out of the blue. He was walking back and forth in the middle of the street, effectively taunting the dog, which in all probability was just protecting his home and his masters from what he perceived was a danger. I work a lot with large dogs, and there are many, many good dogs out there that would have done the same thing in that situation.

Of course, that does NOT mean it's OK for the dog to attack the cop. Legally, the owner is still responsible for restraining the dog to ensure everybody's safety. I think everybody here was pretty much taken by surprise by what happened, and weren't expecting it. If the cop had been just walking along like any other pedestrian, nothing would have happened.

February 4, 2012, 02:24 AM	#1
cloud8a Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 399	Closing distance (25 Seconds into video) This video is interesting because one, it does not involve a human attacker, but a dog, two because the officer sees the charge but waits while pointing his finger. The dog is appears to be at full speed and close to 6 feet away before the officer reaches for his weapon. The officer may or may not have been able to actually get his weapon out and delivers a kick. I do not know if the officer was trying to restrain from drawing his weapon or unable to extract it from his holster quick enough. BUT, how can we use this footage to see the realities of closing distance. I know dogs can move quicker and are smaller targets but is this a valuable tool to look at for these purposes? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBQ7q...ture=endscreen

February 4, 2012, 02:36 AM	#2
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	I didn't watch it for fear of flashbacks I had two come in from behind my left shoulder, both 100 pounds or so and both in a flat-out charge. I didn't hear 'em until they were within 30 feet and didn't see them until they were at about 20... started shooting immediately and the first one decided 'no deal' when he was about five feet out with four holes in his chest & shoulders. He was DRT before he got 15 feet into his retreat. I had hair and blood on my pants leg afterward. If I'd have screwed around a half-second longer either me or one of the three kids standing around me would have gotten mauled. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

February 5, 2012, 02:34 PM	#7
Kimbertron Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2011 Location: Middle of nowhere Posts: 287	I am recovering from surgery on my hand from a dog attack. I watched the video but it didn't have CC that worked so i couldn't read what was going on. Did the dog get put down or taken away from the people that obviously shouldn't own a dog? __________________ "Having your head on a swivel does no good if it's simultaneously up your nether regions." -Pax

February 5, 2012, 03:04 PM	#8
Nitesites Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2011 Posts: 600	The animal was returned to the owner. The Animal Control spokesman stated that since the animal did not actually harm the officer, they had no cause to remove it. I would take issue with that as did the officer involved but... __________________ On Yellow

February 5, 2012, 03:39 PM	#10
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	I was impressed with the officer's restraint and quick thinking. The foot was very quick thinking. I'm thinking next time, after the analysis from the animal control officer and the officer's comments, that he may use his service weapon instead of the taser on the next dog? Wow. __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

February 5, 2012, 09:43 AM	#3
Jeff F Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2005 Location: Silver Springs NV Posts: 187	That was a beautiful shot with the taser!

February 5, 2012, 12:04 PM	#4
irish52084 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2011 Location: Washington, the state, not that "other" one. Posts: 514	I'm telling you, it's gotta be uniforms that dogs hate. I get to deal with a lot of unfamiliar dogs daily at work, and I don't screw around. I look for signs the house may have a dog, poop, toys etc... I've had plenty of dogs come out charging and it's never any fun. I can't carry at work, not even pepper spray, so the standard M.O. is to kick the dog away or hit them with our big heavy DIAD board/dog deterrent. Ah, the joys of being a local UPS driver. If I'm not a work and can carry where I'm at, then I keep my eyes on unfamiliar dogs, it's kind of habit now. In the case of the officer, I thought he did ok. He faced the dog, stepped back to buy some time and space, kicked the dog away and drew his weapon. I think the other officer did an excellent job as well, being aware enough to draw a taser and then being able to hit a moving target quickly. That taser shot might have saved someone from getting bitten and it also means no shots were fired in close proximity to other people. Especially since the shot would have been at a steep down angle into pavement in a residential area.

February 5, 2012, 12:19 PM	#5
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	That was a scary situation, you have an officer back-peddaling, drawing his weapon and going in circles, with civilians and another officer nearby. If he would have drawn and shot, instead of pointing at first... he would have been sending rounds in the general direction of 4 kids. The thing that mitigates it somewhat is that the officer is mostly pointing his weapon down. That dog didn't react to the taser the way you see humans do. I've seen the YouTube video of a bull tazed with the large animal version and the bull went down like you see people do. Police carry tasers that are supposed to be capable of putting down adult human males. That Rottwieller shook it off and kept going.

February 5, 2012, 01:07 PM	#6
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	I thought the first officer reacted nicely with a swift kick to the dog's neck/face - backed the dog off enough for the officer to take control. I'm going to have to remember that.

February 6, 2012, 11:48 AM	#11
Nanuk Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2005 Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam. Posts: 3,082	The officer reacted quickly and correctly, that dog closed the gap FAST. Great dynamic fight, how the attacker (dog) circled to attack again. The lesson is that a determined attacker is going to continue to attack until you change his channel to oh crap which the Taser did. Notice really how fast the whole incident lasted? 2 seconds maybe? The only mistake I saw was that as the cop was walking down the street he was not watching the dog and was not able to react until the dog was upon him. Awesome shot with the Taser. __________________ Retired Law Enforcement U. S. Army Veteran Armorer My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

February 7, 2012, 03:57 AM	#12
ltc444 Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2011 Location: Vernon AZ Posts: 1,195	Response to post #4. Dogs don't hate uniforms. Mostly they hate people who they don't trust or who are in fear of them. We had a UPS driver who delivered in our neighborhod, the dogs would jump in his truck and ride withhim when he made his deliveries. When he left the neighbor hood he would give them a treat and tell them to go home. The dogs would jump out and go back to their yards. His relief driver showed fear and agression to those same dogs. They responded in kind. He was removed from the route at the request of the residents and never allowed to return. I was a high mileage (75 to 100 miles per week) runner, door to door salesman and LEO. I was never attacked or bitten while engaged in those activities.

February 8, 2012, 02:29 PM	#13
gnarSKYLER Member Join Date: October 30, 2011 Posts: 32	Sweet video That kick was sweet. That guy knows what's up!

February 10, 2012, 08:45 AM	#14
Ruark Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2010 Posts: 227	It's hard to say. It's not like the officer was just strolling past and the dog suddenly charged him out of the blue. He was walking back and forth in the middle of the street, effectively taunting the dog, which in all probability was just protecting his home and his masters from what he perceived was a danger. I work a lot with large dogs, and there are many, many good dogs out there that would have done the same thing in that situation. Of course, that does NOT mean it's OK for the dog to attack the cop. Legally, the owner is still responsible for restraining the dog to ensure everybody's safety. I think everybody here was pretty much taken by surprise by what happened, and weren't expecting it. If the cop had been just walking along like any other pedestrian, nothing would have happened.