The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 20, 2018, 09:54 AM   #1
rebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 3,809
looking to buy a new rifle ?

Looking for a rifle in 223 for informal benchrest shooting between 100 and 300 yds. maybe a savage 12 fv from cabelas or a precision rifle in savage or rugar. Help me decide ?
rebs is offline  
Old December 20, 2018, 12:31 PM   #2
hounddog409
Member
 
Join Date: July 9, 2015
Posts: 43
of those listed, I would recommend the Ruger.

Always been a fan of Ruger, and own or have owned a bunch with out issue.

I am not a fan of Savage, but this is not saying they are not good rifles.

Actually a Ruger Precision is on my short list for next purchase.
hounddog409 is offline  
Old December 20, 2018, 01:33 PM   #3
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 10,939
What's your budget?
"...Savage or RugEr..." Six of this, half dozen of that. You can buy strictly on the price but try 'em both on for size if you can.
Cabela's shows there is a decided difference in price between a 12 FV and the Ruger. A 20" .223 Ruger runs roughly a grand. $379.97(currently on sale) for a 12 FV, that is a varmint hunting rifle, not a target rifle.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old December 20, 2018, 02:46 PM   #4
MarkCO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 1998
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 2,677
If you want a disposable, meaning when you shoot out the barrel in say 8K rounds, you sell it and buy another, the Ruger American Predator with AR15 mags. $500ish.

In the middle, maybe a Tikka T3 Varmint.

If you want something more refined that will be about $500 to rebarrel, then a Bergara HMR-Pro. $1500ish
__________________
Good Shooting, MarkCO
www.CarbonArms.us
MarkCO is offline  
Old December 21, 2018, 01:22 AM   #5
taylorce1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 7,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO
If you want a disposable, meaning when you shoot out the barrel in say 8K rounds, you sell it and buy another, the Ruger American Predator with AR15 mags. $500ish.
Why disposable? The Ruger is as easy to swap a roached out barrel on as a Savage for around $350. You can always upgrade the stock to a chassis as well and I imagine you'll eventually see a McMillan or Manners. B&C already has a Medalist for the rotary mag rifles.
__________________
NRA Life Member
taylorce1 is offline  
Old December 21, 2018, 07:11 AM   #6
kilotanker22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Location: North Central, PA
Posts: 1,011
There are tons of excellent options in your category. I would venture to say that you couldnt go wrong with any option from Savage, Remington, Ruger, Winchester, Bergara,CZ or Tikka. The list goes on and on. My personal preferences lie with Savage, Winchester and Remington. Price wise Savage, Ruger and Remington all have similarly price budget lines. That all shoot sub 1 moa with some care. You will find far more after market parts and upgrades for a Savage 110 or Remington 700. Than probably any other make and models.

My recommendation? Savage 110 tactical, Varmint. Or Remington 700 SPS Varmint, VTR or SPS Tactical.
kilotanker22 is offline  
Old December 21, 2018, 08:32 AM   #7
taylorce1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 7,115
Winchester hasn't made a .223 for several years, and they had a 1:12 twist barrel better suited to 55 grain bullets or less. With the bullet options today I'd try and find a 1:8 twist rifle, the Ruger American rifles offer that. Savage and Remington use 1:9 twist which would my second choice.
__________________
NRA Life Member
taylorce1 is offline  
Old December 21, 2018, 10:40 AM   #8
MarkCO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 1998
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 2,677
Quote:
Originally Posted by taylorce1 View Post
Why disposable? The Ruger is as easy to swap a roached out barrel on as a Savage for around $350. You can always upgrade the stock to a chassis as well and I imagine you'll eventually see a McMillan or Manners. B&C already has a Medalist for the rotary mag rifles.
Because they are cheap. When you go to start rebarreling them, you want to clean up the machining and true things and pretty soon you have spent $500 on a $400 rifle. Better to shoot them for about 1/2 to 3/4 of their life and sell it.
__________________
Good Shooting, MarkCO
www.CarbonArms.us
MarkCO is offline  
Old December 21, 2018, 10:52 AM   #9
Sharkbite
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2013
Location: Western slope of Colorado
Posts: 3,170
Id vote Ruger as well, but id opt for the Ruger Precision rifle

Comes out of the box ready to go. Slap on some glass and get shooting. When you shoot out the barrel, its as easy to change as an AR.
Sharkbite is offline  
Old December 21, 2018, 11:41 AM   #10
Don Fischer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2017
Posts: 1,357
I've never owned a Savage CF rifle but of the two that's where I'd go. They didn't get that reputation for accuracy for nothing. I've had a couple Ruger 77's, older wood stock's. Beautiful rifle's that left a lot to be desired in the accuracy department. If I were looking into a 223 for target shooting it would be a 700 Remington. I've only even seen one Remington I couldn't make shoot, a mod 7 when they first came out. Never have another it was so bad. Have a 700 ADL I got as a gift years ago that shot about as bad as a rifle could. Pryed the stock off and completely rebedded it and found a 1/2" rifle. Today it has a wood stock! I have it stuck in my mind that if accurate is what you want you need a round action. Remington and I believe Savage have that. Look at the custom action's made for bench rest shooting, all are round actions. I think the deal is they are much easier to bed. Probably a bit stiffer too if that matter's. I have a 700 BDL long action I put one piece Leupold base on with the intention of stiffing up the action some. Don't know if it did but the rifle sure shoot's! I never tried bedding either of my Ruger's, that recoil lug has me stumped. Ruger mod 77, one of the most beautiful production rifles in my opinion but I'd never buy one looking for accuracy!
Don Fischer is offline  
Old December 21, 2018, 12:06 PM   #11
taylorce1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 7,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO
Because they are cheap. When you go to start rebarreling them, you want to clean up the machining and true things and pretty soon you have spent $500 on a $400 rifle. Better to shoot them for about 1/2 to 3/4 of their life and sell it.
How far out of true are they, have you had one apart to check? Modern machining tools usually get things pretty close the first time. I'd be willing to bet that's why most shoot well out of the box.

Yep, they are cheap I'll give you that. So are Savage Axis rifles and people screw on new tubes all the time. Just because they are cheap doesn't really equate to disposable IMO.
__________________
NRA Life Member
taylorce1 is offline  
Old December 21, 2018, 12:20 PM   #12
MarkCO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 1998
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 2,677
Disposable is probably not the best term. Use, wash, sell...repeat. I am on my 2nd RAP in .243Win and I will likely sell it this spring. About 5K on the All weather RA in .223 I use as a trainer for new shooters. My first one, it cost me $75 to put 2K through it. Sold it to a guy who is going to shoot a box a year at Deer and Pronghorn.

I have had three completely apart. One a RAP and the other a RA all weather and a RPR. What I found was consistent with what others who have trued up their RPRs. Bolt lugs and faces, some in the barrel locking lugs as well. I guess the nice thing is that they can really be squared up and polished up at home, if one wants to, since headspace is easy to reset.

From a $ per round with decent accuracy, the Rugers are, for me, a great value. Even as a high volume shooter, I have to balance the time I spend reloading, shooting and working on guns. For me, it takes about 30 minutes of time to sell one and get another. So it is 1/3rd the time and cost to sell and replace as to true up and rebarrel. I'll use that time on my higher priced rifles though, and those are what I mostly shoot in matches.
__________________
Good Shooting, MarkCO
www.CarbonArms.us
MarkCO is offline  
Old December 21, 2018, 12:22 PM   #13
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 9,491
I'm a fan of the Ruger. But I'd also call it a disposable rifle. Yes, it is possible to re-barrel one. But I don't think it is cost effective. They are plenty accurate as is and if I ever wore one out I'd probably just buy another rather than try to replace the barrel. It would cost less, and probably shoot just as well.

For what the OP wants to do he can buy 2 or 3 of the Ruger Predators for what the Precision rifle costs. Same barrel, same action, same accuracy. The stock isn't worth that much to me and the versions that take AR magazines are a bargain.

Quote:
I've never owned a Savage CF rifle but of the two that's where I'd go. They didn't get that reputation for accuracy for nothing. I've had a couple Ruger 77's, older wood stock's. Beautiful rifle's that left a lot to be desired in the accuracy department.
The 77 was never designed with accuracy in mind. It was designed with rugged reliability in mind. The new Ruger American series isn't the same rifle and incorporates a lot of design features designed to enhance accuracy. It'll shoot with anything short of a custom rig costing 10X as much.
__________________
"If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong"

Winston Churchill
jmr40 is offline  
Old December 21, 2018, 12:25 PM   #14
MarkCO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 1998
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 2,677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkbite View Post
Id vote Ruger as well, but id opt for the Ruger Precision rifle

Comes out of the box ready to go. Slap on some glass and get shooting. When you shoot out the barrel, its as easy to change as an AR.
I have had three of those too. The one I have left only has the receivers and bolt left and is a highly customized integrally suppressed .308. Not as easy to change the barrel as an AR. Some of the barrel nuts take serious breaker bars to break them loose, and you still need a barrel vice and to set the headspace.

If we are voting, I'd take a Bergara or Tikka over the RPRs everytime. Better overall fit and finish for about the same amount of coin.
__________________
Good Shooting, MarkCO
www.CarbonArms.us
MarkCO is offline  
Old December 21, 2018, 01:22 PM   #15
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 6,003
The Savage would be my choice for a keeper.

It has the acu trigger and that is a very good trigger, not quite a great one but good. The 12FV gets the varmint acu that goes down to 1.5 lbs.

You can change the barrel easily and upgrade in the process.

Bolt head floats so it has more up side in not needing to be blue printed to get accurate. Don't get me wrong, you want to shoot sub 1/4 MOA you will need a higher grade setup, but for varmint or target work its good.

Boyds makes great drop in stocks, I like the laminates for looks and they are composite so they don't move.

You will spend more on the scope than the rifle.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old December 21, 2018, 03:36 PM   #16
MarkCO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 1998
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 2,677
The reason I stay away from Savage is that it is up for sale by Vista, partly in an attempt to sanitize Vista from the scourge of selling guns. Every company that has taken that path has seen a huge increase in QC issues. Who will buy them, and will they even exist in a few years?
__________________
Good Shooting, MarkCO
www.CarbonArms.us
MarkCO is offline  
Old December 21, 2018, 07:52 PM   #17
jpx2rk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2015
Posts: 189
I have 3 FV12's, a 223, 204R & just got a 22/250. I use 'em for pdogs and punching paper. The 223 & 204R are completely stock except for the scope mounts & scope, shoot .5 to .75 moa with hand loads all day long. The 22/250 shot MOA with factory PPU 55g SP ammo on it's first trip to the range.
jpx2rk is offline  
Old December 21, 2018, 08:56 PM   #18
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 4,739
My choice would be a Savage target model. Savage target models generally shoot very well, have a pivoting bolt and easily replaceable barrels. They also have a good selection of target triggers and their own accutrigger isn’t bad.

Ruger has decent triggers, generally a bad rep on barrels and use as cast bolt raceways(Hawkeye) if that matters to you. I do believe they have improved their rep with the American series and the precision rifle series.
Nathan is offline  
Old December 23, 2018, 12:58 PM   #19
rebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 3,809
Thanks for all the replies. I have pretty much decided on the Savage 12 FV from Cabela's
rebs is offline  
Old December 24, 2018, 07:18 AM   #20
jpx2rk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2015
Posts: 189
Good choice, IMO. LOL Enjoy.
jpx2rk is offline  
Old December 24, 2018, 11:08 AM   #21
Don Fischer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2017
Posts: 1,357
Love this talk about shot out barrels on inexpensive gun's. Just what make's a barrel shot out n the first place? How do you recognize a shot out barrel? I've never shot out a barrel in my life. and of course if your a competitive or high volume shooter, what are you doing with an inexpensive rifle in the first place?
Don Fischer is offline  
Old December 24, 2018, 04:14 PM   #22
flashhole
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2005
Location: Owego, NY
Posts: 1,970
Why bring practicality into the discussion?

I went with a Kimber Longmaster Classic in 223. It's a bit finicky about bullets but the ones it likes it shoots really well.
__________________
,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals.
flashhole is offline  
Old December 24, 2018, 07:23 PM   #23
MarkCO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 1998
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 2,677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Fischer View Post
Love this talk about shot out barrels on inexpensive gun's. Just what make's a barrel shot out n the first place? How do you recognize a shot out barrel? I've never shot out a barrel in my life. and of course if your a competitive or high volume shooter, what are you doing with an inexpensive rifle in the first place?
Last question first, it is called practice. If you know the mechanical limitations of the rifle, you can get in cheaper practice than shooting out a premium barrel. Having shot out about 20 barrels, yeah, one can tell. Speed drops, groups open up. Have had it happen at a match more than once. Rebarreling one of my match rifles is $500 or more, in some cases up to $1K. So 90% of my practice gets done with less expensive rifles to preserve the life of the performance guns. I also don't mind letting new shooters shoot my practice rigs, but I don't let many people even touch my match rifles.

Of course, sometimes, it is just the throat and the barrel can be cut, set back and then rechambered if there is enough material. The .260 I shoot in matches has been cut and set back three times.
__________________
Good Shooting, MarkCO
www.CarbonArms.us
MarkCO is offline  
Old December 25, 2018, 07:58 AM   #24
rebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 3,809
Thank you guys for all the information, I appreciate it
rebs is offline  
Old December 27, 2018, 07:36 PM   #25
Longshot4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2014
Posts: 765
Savage are not much to them and yes they are the ugliest of them all. Rugers are a little better for looks but not for mechanics. But a Remington 700 is only what you want it to be. First off its a good looker. Rich finish on the materials. Stocks well Remington has what ever type of stock that is needed. Show, field, bench, you name it. The 700 never has a funky Savage finish. Ruger has been generally a troubled sporter. Savage and Ruger need to go back to school and learn how to make a clip magazine. Try to get after market parts. I believe Remington 700 is the standard. Savage and Ruger are a cheep imitation. If you buy a Savage be care full not to cut your self on the sharp edges.

Note I own all three and Remington always has me admiring.
Longshot4 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09301 seconds with 8 queries