stuck cases 308

[towman32]

So I have been reloading 308 for over two years and have had this problem on multiple occasions. my rcbs and lee full length sizing\decap dies will jam. I have tried various amounts of lube. one day it will work just fine and the next "wham" a stuck case. I have cleaned the die using compressed air and looked inside to find no visible issues. what am I doing wrong? also most of the cases are once fired military. I have a neck sizing die for everything I have already shot. the lube I use is in a aerosol can and works great on my 223 progressive press.

[Lucas McCain]

What brand of resizing lube are you using? There has been posts about One Shot and they are having the same problem with stuck cases. I use the RCBS lube that comes in a tube and I lube my cases on a pad. I also have Forester brush set-up and the neck gets dipped in white graphite and the neck gets wiped out by the brush. This process also is supposed to stop any corrosion that would cause increased neck tension if the cartridges, perhaps sat around to long before they get fired.

A couple things should be looked at here;
Check the wall thickness of your necks, if they are to thick they may cause a problem.

Measure the case just above the rim. you may have chamber on the high side, dimensionally, and if the brass is hardened from being fired to many times. its not resizing properly. The fix is throw them away. I don't know if its a good idea to anneal them that far down on the case.

After you have removed the stuck case can you see on the case where it was stuck?

[JeepHammer]

Hornady One Shot works fine on my .223 cases, even in the Dillon progressive.

I don't have much luck with it on .308 cases either.
Don't ask me why.

I use a pump spray lube on .308 cases, RCBS Case Slick, and it seems to work OK, they still get plenty tight, but they do move if you don't leave the case at the top of the stroke...

The other thing I recommend HIGHLY is,
Open up the vent hole in your case sizing die a little more.
Both Lee and RCBS dies *SEEM* to have a hole that is too small, gets plugged up pretty easily...

When mine plugs, it's dented shoulders and then a stuck case, you only get one dented case to warn you the next one is going to stick...

I opened the vent hole up a little,

The next time I have the die out of the tool head, I'm going to drill a second vent on the other side and see if that helps...

--------

What I *Think* sometimes happens with lube,
And I could certianly be all wet on my observations and the conclusions I jumped to, it wouldn't be the first time...

The case is being FULLY resized, that's a BUNCH of surface area being formed at once,
Virtually no room in the die that IS NOT in contact with the case.

The air inside the die is being compressed inside the case,
Cases without primers resize better on my hand press than ones with primers in place is how I arrived at that conclusion.

As long as you are compressing, there is still a lubricant layer between case and die.

Stop at the top to reverse direction of the ram,
The lubricant gets a chance to get out from between case and die,
And you get a jammed case.

While at the top, Full Compression, every part of the case in contact with the die, every imperfection in the die is in contact with the case,
Scratches grab hold as lubricant evacuates, you have a stuck case...

I notice the longer I leave my ram at the top of the stroke,
The harder it is to get moving down again is how I came to that conclusion.

When I use a dry powder (talc, soapstone) the case doesn't seem to stick no matter how long it's at the top, since dry lube doesn't migrate was my conclusion.

-----

That super slick/super thick RCBS pad lube keeps cases moving, but it makes a sticky mess it takes chemicals to get rid of. Really super sticky stuff.

I *THINK* the viscosity keeps that stuff from migrating out of the case to die friction zone and that's why it works,
But rolling each case on a pad, getting it everywhere, and trying to clean it up afterwards is just a pain in the butt.

Dry teflon mold release and lubricant from Brownells will keep ANY case from sticking,
But it's UBER EXPENSIVE.

Even super long tapered cases don't stick with this stuff...
It's going to cost you a bunch since it's mostly for getting rifle parts un-stuck from epoxy bedding,
But it gets right with it for stubborn cases that HATE to resize...

----

This will probably start an argument with the 'That's the way they made it' guys again...

My vent holes come out in the threads of the tool head,
So they get plugged up pretty easily,
And the crud collects instead of moving away from the vent.

I'm thinking of a second hole,
And I'm thinking cutting a channel up to above the locking ring so the hole can vent directly instead of into the threads.
Cutting through threads 90° to their plain of travel won't substantially weaken them, and a direct vent might be worth the trouble.

Don't know if it's going to work, but the worst that can happen is I can screw up a sizing die that becomes a close tolerance decapper/primer flash tube cleaner
(What I do with sizing dies when they get scratched/wear out of tolerance)

Just some ideas I haven't tried and had fail yet...

[towman32]

"What brand of resizing lube are you using? There has been posts about One Shot and they are having the same problem with stuck cases"

Lucas/jeep hammer

I have a good supply of one shot and have used it. that was most likely the lube I used when I got my first stuck case. yesterday I had my second and I was using a Lyman spray. after removing the case from the rcbs I ended up destroying the die due to very soft threads at the top of the decapping rod(near the adjustment side). so to finish the day I grabbed a new unused lee fl die I had sitting in a box. tried two cases and it was almost near death again!!!! and it was a completely different die!!???

I haven't used a dry lube yet, but may need to if I cant make my 10 cans of aerosol work.

"I also have Forester brush set-up and the neck gets dipped in white graphite and the neck gets wiped out by the brush. This process also is supposed to stop any corrosion that would cause increased neck tension if the cartridges, perhaps sat around to long before they get fired."

now I have been reading forums and it seems that there are many different opinions of where to lube the case and where not. some say don't lube the neck and shoulder and some say do!? is this just a personal preference?

Thanks for your help

[Smoke & Recoil]

RCBS lube, lube pad, lube inside of neck lightly. But start with CLEAN cases.

[hooligan1]

RCBS Case Lube and roll pad, never a stuck case....my stuck case remover sets on a shelf looking on, never been used....

[towman32]

Well crap, it seems like there is an overwhelmingly agreement on rcbs lube. I guess I will try it. Bummer with how many cans of one shot I have. Thanks guys I have a lot to work with so far. I will update in a couple days.

[603Country]

Yes...what hooligan said.

I use the RCBS lube and only put it on about the bottom third of the case. None on the shoulder or outside of the neck. On the inside of the neck I brush a small amount of the RCBS lube. Tried the graphite, but prefer the lube.

Never had a stuck case, but if I have a case that is resisting going into the die (which happens rarely), I'll retract it and relube.

That said, I've mostly gone to Lee Collet dies, which need no lube at all.

[cw308]

I have been using RCBS Dies & lube for years without a problem. When I changed to Redding S Type Bushing Die with RCBS lube, the first case in the die stuck, ripped the rim off the case, first time ever. Boy did I feel like a AH, Sent it back to Redding, they removed the case checked the die & I ordered a stuck case removal kit, which I hope to never use. Now when I feel a little resistance I lower the ram & apply alittle more lube.

[nemesiss45]

FWIW, i have used one shot exclusively. I think it is great because you can get the body and case neck in one shot.... no pun intended. Im not saying its the best... i picked it out of convenience (only thing the lgs had on hand), but it has never left me with a stuck case. I have had some beasty 7.62x51 that really wanted to stick, but i got them out without damaging them.

I think, like cw308 said... go slow and apply more lube when the going gets tough.

And, while it is probably not the cause, since you have more normal sizings than sticky ones, you may try dropping your expander ball a bit if you have room.... if it is right on the edge of crowding the brass, the thicker cases could be running into problems there

[condor bravo]

I have found the One Shot spray on marginal even with commercial '06 brass. Used it only because the gun shop was out of the RCBS lube. When using that type lube, only necessary to lube the bottom half or so of the case. Avoid use around or slightly below the shoulder to prevent lube dents.

[T. O'Heir]

The brand of resizing lube isn't as important as using the correct amount.
"...RCBS Case Lube and roll pad, never a stuck case..." Ditto. For about 40 years.
"...feel like a AH..." As in AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? snicker.

[Marco Califo]

Military 308 = 7.62 = fired in machine gun

They are puffed out by being fired in oversize chambers to insure full auto cycling. They are notoriously difficult to re-size. This can be accomplished successfully by breaking the process into individual baby steps, and using good lube properly. By doing each step separately (rather than combining steps or using a progressive), you will pinpoint what is going wrong. You only need to do this the first time.
1. Deprime using a depriming or decapping die. These work great for pushing out the crimped in military primer (the crimp also needs to be removed step 4).
2. Remove the decapper from your sizing die. In this step you only resize the outside case dimensions.
3. I recommend Lucas Oil White Lithium grease on a pad or paper-towel. It only takes a light application. The case should resize without a lot of resistance. Never had a lot of resistance, nor a stuck case with this lube.
4. At this point you should clean up your cases, reassemble your die and resize (again) as usual. You will need to removing the primer crimp and trim as case length will likely vary considerably.
I bought an RCBS X-Dies in small base, but have not tried it yet. The idea is to return the brass to manufacturing dimensions. This die is also supposed to eliminate trimming after the initial trim, by blocking case stretch.

[towman32]

So after enduring the flu I am back at it. I bought some rcbs-2 lube off amazon. No doubt that stuff is superior next to one shot and lyman aerosol. The problem I found is it is very sticky(goo like). As for the stuck cases the rcbs-2 put a stop to that. The other thing I noticed was my lack of good chamfering "deburring" of the case mouth after trimming. I did have some debris in the vent hole of the die which I cleaned out, however this hole is hidden behind the lock down nut when in use. Am I doing something wrong? you would think it would be closer to the top of the die?????

[Blindstitch]

RCBS lube, lube pad, lube inside of neck lightly. But start with CLEAN cases.

That's what I do. If you build up to much lube you can do as I do. Lube 1 and then run one without lube. Then lube, no lube. Seems like when you first put it on the pad to much goes on. Once a light amount is on the pad it's flawless.

[towman32]

blindstitch- I will give that a try. While im on here is there a good or common number for how far to keep the bullet from lands\grooves (bullet jump)? I once read .002 but not sure that's accurate.

[hartcreek]

RCBS lube yes lube pad no. I strisel a bit on the case where I know it will stick and then start sizeing the case but I do it in stages meaning I only shoev the case into the die part way and then remove it and again part way. It is a by feel thing. Some cases I have to do two times some three for a full sized case.

[Bart B.]

My favorite case lube was passed on to me by Sierra Bullets ballistic tech decades ago. A 40%-60% mix of Hoppe's No. 9 bore cleaner and STP engine oil treatment. Thinner than most commercial case lubes but cleans off easy.

It also ends up producing the most consistent case headspace dimension on full length sized cases. But it has to be uniformly applied to all cases. So I decap, vibrate clean fired cases, then clean them off in a sushing tube made with a terry cloth towel. Then 50 are put in a foam lined coffee can that's had several drops of that home made case lube dribbled on it. Cap the can of cases then put it on a Thumbler's Tumbler for as long as it takes me to full length size 50 other already lubed cases.

Regarding bullet jump distance for the .308, or any other cartridge for that matter. There's almost a 1/20th inch range that little difference in accuracy will be seen. If the bullet's gently jammed into the lands, that help center it in the bore; a grain or two less powder may be needed to keep pressure OK. This is popular with long range competitors' handloads. With reasonably straight ammo, up to about 1/20th inch bullet jump difference won't matter for ranges up through 600 yards. The .308 Win. throat erodes away so bullet jump (for a given COAL) increases about .001" for every few dozen or so shots; it varies a little with powder type and charge weight. (Note: For comparison, a 30 caliber throat erosion gauge advances about .001" for every shot fired in both .30-06 and .308 Win barrels, but its taper is much less than that of a bullet's ogive where it touches the rifling.) Yet the barrel will shoot good bullets properly loaded well under 1 MOA in such conditions at those ranges. So will the same lot of good commercial match ammo.

[stubbicatt]

FWIW, I will mix Lee toothpaste tube case lube in an approximate 1 to 6 ratio with Isopropyl alcohol in a spray atomizer from Walmart. Squirt about 6 pumps into a gallon sized ziplock bag. Add a few cases and roll it around between my fingers, and empty on an old biscuit pan to air dry. Air drying only takes a couple minutes if you use the higher percentage Iso from the drugstore. Results in a nice even coating and a little bit inside the case neck to ease expander ball passage.

Never stuck a case, even a MG fired surplus 308. Cleanup is easy with a moistened towel, or another short trip through the tumbler with tired media.

Inexpensive and very easy to use. I recommend it.

[trapper9260]

in the past I did got a case stuck in the die and had a gunsmith I know get it out and told me about usen Hornady Unique for the lube and ever since then did not got a case stuck after that and it is lake city brass.

[towman32]

Thanks Bart, that is helpful information. Also thank you to everyone else who contributed to my questions!

[jj320]

mink oil last you for ever or imperial wax

[F. Guffey]

My favorite case lube was passed on to me by Sierra Bullets ballistic tech decades ago. A 40%-60% mix of Hoppe's No. 9 bore cleaner and STP engine oil treatment. Thinner than most commercial case lubes but cleans off easy.

I would like to give him credit for the mixture but there is no mention. Jack O'Conner on the other hand took the time to write it down. His hands hurt most of the time, he said he got relief with Lanolin, when sizing cases he said he used extra lanolin, lanolin went from his hand to the case.

I use a no name lube that was available then, I work with a few reloaders that do increasable work, one only uses Imperial and has absolutely no interest in a no-name lube. reloaders will not believe how much work is required for me to make Imperial look good.

F. Guffey

[The Old Salt]

Recently read many old posts here about home made case lubes. Some mentioned Mink Oil. Hummm! Knew I had some somewhere for my dress shoes. Found it! Its Red Wing brand. Has both silicone and lanoline. Tried it on some 308 L.C. cases. Cases were loaded outside SAAMI specs (C.O.L. & powder charge) and fired in an experimental barrel. (This was just for testing purposes and inside the barrel MFG parameters) They had 2 or 3 firings for each case with only neck sizing between firings. Last firing had cases which were hard to rotate the bolt during extraction. So this was not anticipated to be an easy full length resize. Used RCBS full length die with the decap pin and expander ball removed. With just a touch of the Red WIng Mink oil mixture on the tips of my fingers I rubbed the case down and inserted into the die. Had to work the first case gradually a couple times then every case after that went smooth as glass. The cases were resized but the necks were now .299" I.D.. Next I ran them through my Lee neck size die to decap and expand the I.D. of the neck. To lube the inside of the neck I just rubbed a cue tip over the outside of the case to pick up a little mink and applied that to the inside of the neck. Worked out great. They are all now a very uniform 0.304" I.D. (My die mandrel has been turned down) later in the process they will take a bath in the ultrasonic cleaner. Hope that works out as well as the Red Wing Mink Oil has.

[PA-Joe]

Did you degrease the inside of the dies? You said you air cleaned them. Some are shipped with oil that has to be removed.