I'm Confused

John Ciccarelli · November 4, 2012, 01:55 PM

I just loaded my first 40 cal 180 Grain Lead FP and had good results with 6.0 Grains of Unique. I then loaded some Berrys 180 Grain Copper Plated HPs. The recoil was significantly increased. I didn't expect this. This is also my first time loading the Berrys Bullets. This is also my first time shooting my new S&W SD40VE.

Should there be a significant difference in recoil. For what I have read I expected Berrys to be similar to Lead. What am I missing?

Since this is a new gun and my first time shooting a 40, I really do not know what to expect, but I was sure surprised at the difference.

Any Ideas? John

Don H · November 4, 2012, 02:43 PM

John, I'm just going off memory here since I don't currently have any Berry's bullets on hand but I think the HP bullet is longer than the FP bullet. If so, and you are seating both to the same OAL, then the HP bullet will seat further into the case, reducing volume and raising pressures, thus the higher recoil.

John Ciccarelli · November 4, 2012, 02:53 PM

You are right, but not by much. Only .003" The Lead are .628 and the Berrys are .625

I wanted to know what the recoil of a commercial round would be like. I bought a box of 180 Grain JHPs with about the same velocity as what I expected. I shot 5 rounds and the recoil was a little less then the Berrys and a lot more then the Lead.

Any other thoughts?

John Ciccarelli · November 4, 2012, 02:56 PM

I guess I got that backwards. The lead are actually seated .003 deeper.

dacaur · November 4, 2012, 03:09 PM

Copper plated bullets are harder to push down the bore than lead, so using the same load of powder, you will always have more recoil than you do with lead. From what I can see, 6gr of unique should be OK, though as you have found, its not a light recoiling load. Try 5-5.5gr and see if the recoil is manageable....

Check the diameter of the berrys vs the factory bullets, I bet the berrys are fatter, which would explain why they have heavier recoil....

John Ciccarelli · November 4, 2012, 05:07 PM

I guess that they must just be harder to push down the barrel. I measured them and the Berry is .400 and the Lead is .401. I think that I will just back the charge down a little. I actually started with a charge of 5.2 with the Lead and they wouldn't feed. I went to 6.0 and they feed well and all seemed fine. I thought that the Berrys would be about the same.

This S&W 40 is the first that I ever tried without ever firing factory ammo. That may not have been a good plan. The recoil on this gun is a little more then I thought it was going to be. Not a problem, but a little more recoil then I expected. It is very close to my 10mm Glock.

Lost Sheep · November 4, 2012, 05:25 PM

It is about time you invested in a Chronograph. You are making the kind of observations and asking the kinds of questions that indicate you would be interested in the information one can provide.

Cost is about $100 to $150 for an inexpensive one. Get one with the readout separate from the sensor unit. Then put the sensor unit behind or under a bullet shield.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/...43&m=446105658

Lost Sheep

John Ciccarelli · November 4, 2012, 06:11 PM

You may be right. I am fairly new to this, but I get very involved quickly. I have been focusing on supplies that may not be available for long. The Chronograph is on the list. Hopefully by Christmas.

primerman · November 4, 2012, 09:30 PM

What is your col of these bullets after you get them loaded? Also are you crimping your cases?

John Ciccarelli · November 5, 2012, 03:24 AM

Quote:

What is your col of these bullets after you get them loaded?

I'm not sure what this means.

I am lightly crimping these with the Lee Factory Crimp Die. The same crimp for the Berrys and the Lead

dacaur · November 5, 2012, 08:31 PM

COL or COAL = Cartridge Overall Length. The length of the completed cartridge from the base of the brass to the tip of the bullet (measured with a set of calipers, or micrometers if you are crazy)

John Ciccarelli · November 6, 2012, 07:23 AM

I never saw it in lower case and it looked funny. COL is 1.28.

I noticed a new problem. It looks like some of the cases are getting deformed. There is a chamfer in the barrel and some of the casings are bulging at this point. Is this chamfer normal? Is it a problem that the casings has bulged?

This is with 180 Grain Lead FP and 6.0 Unique. This is well within what should be acceptable.

Here are some pictures

bitttorrrent · November 6, 2012, 01:34 PM

Ok, you forgot to put your glasses on - all of the pictures are blurry.

I wanted to see the buldge because I have on my 9mm loads and am new to reloading, but I think is different problem.

I do know that after firing off my first batch, I put in some factory hollow points after and wow, it was like blasting a canon. I guess my loads are on the softer end - just rounded or mostly rounded lead. I did not realize the bullet itself had so much to do with the recoil and if it was lead or copper.

I just recieved a new batch of copper bullets so will try that next.

So many variables and I at least have to wait until I have some time and then go to the range so it is a long process. But I am happy that my first ever batch was 100% (except for my primer error on one, but that was my fault)

serf 'rett · November 6, 2012, 02:48 PM

Are you shooting a Glock? Buldge is common in 40S&W in older Glocks. Pressure expands the case into the unsupported lower feed ramp area. Inspect cases carefully for rupture.

John Ciccarelli · November 6, 2012, 03:15 PM

Sorry about the quality of the pictures, but this is the best I could do.

This is a S&W sd40VE. I have found others with this bulge. The chamfer allows the case to bulge a little.

November 4, 2012, 01:55 PM	#1
John Ciccarelli Member Join Date: September 18, 2012 Posts: 20	I'm Confused I just loaded my first 40 cal 180 Grain Lead FP and had good results with 6.0 Grains of Unique. I then loaded some Berrys 180 Grain Copper Plated HPs. The recoil was significantly increased. I didn't expect this. This is also my first time loading the Berrys Bullets. This is also my first time shooting my new S&W SD40VE. Should there be a significant difference in recoil. For what I have read I expected Berrys to be similar to Lead. What am I missing? Since this is a new gun and my first time shooting a 40, I really do not know what to expect, but I was sure surprised at the difference. Any Ideas? John

November 4, 2012, 02:43 PM	#2
Don H Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2000 Location: SLC,Utah Posts: 2,704	John, I'm just going off memory here since I don't currently have any Berry's bullets on hand but I think the HP bullet is longer than the FP bullet. If so, and you are seating both to the same OAL, then the HP bullet will seat further into the case, reducing volume and raising pressures, thus the higher recoil. __________________ Don http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com/forum/

November 4, 2012, 05:25 PM	#7
Lost Sheep Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 3,341	A suggestion It is about time you invested in a Chronograph. You are making the kind of observations and asking the kinds of questions that indicate you would be interested in the information one can provide. Cost is about $100 to $150 for an inexpensive one. Get one with the readout separate from the sensor unit. Then put the sensor unit behind or under a bullet shield. http://forums.accuratereloading.com/...43&m=446105658 Lost Sheep

November 6, 2012, 02:48 PM	#14
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	Are you shooting a Glock? Buldge is common in 40S&W in older Glocks. Pressure expands the case into the unsupported lower feed ramp area. Inspect cases carefully for rupture. __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.

November 4, 2012, 02:53 PM	#3
John Ciccarelli Member Join Date: September 18, 2012 Posts: 20	You are right, but not by much. Only .003" The Lead are .628 and the Berrys are .625 I wanted to know what the recoil of a commercial round would be like. I bought a box of 180 Grain JHPs with about the same velocity as what I expected. I shot 5 rounds and the recoil was a little less then the Berrys and a lot more then the Lead. Any other thoughts?

November 4, 2012, 02:56 PM	#4
John Ciccarelli Member Join Date: September 18, 2012 Posts: 20	I guess I got that backwards. The lead are actually seated .003 deeper.

November 4, 2012, 03:09 PM	#5
dacaur Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Posts: 733	Copper plated bullets are harder to push down the bore than lead, so using the same load of powder, you will always have more recoil than you do with lead. From what I can see, 6gr of unique should be OK, though as you have found, its not a light recoiling load. Try 5-5.5gr and see if the recoil is manageable.... Check the diameter of the berrys vs the factory bullets, I bet the berrys are fatter, which would explain why they have heavier recoil....

November 4, 2012, 05:07 PM	#6
John Ciccarelli Member Join Date: September 18, 2012 Posts: 20	I guess that they must just be harder to push down the barrel. I measured them and the Berry is .400 and the Lead is .401. I think that I will just back the charge down a little. I actually started with a charge of 5.2 with the Lead and they wouldn't feed. I went to 6.0 and they feed well and all seemed fine. I thought that the Berrys would be about the same. This S&W 40 is the first that I ever tried without ever firing factory ammo. That may not have been a good plan. The recoil on this gun is a little more then I thought it was going to be. Not a problem, but a little more recoil then I expected. It is very close to my 10mm Glock.

November 4, 2012, 06:11 PM	#8
John Ciccarelli Member Join Date: September 18, 2012 Posts: 20	You may be right. I am fairly new to this, but I get very involved quickly. I have been focusing on supplies that may not be available for long. The Chronograph is on the list. Hopefully by Christmas.

November 4, 2012, 09:30 PM	#9
primerman Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2011 Posts: 153	What is your col of these bullets after you get them loaded? Also are you crimping your cases?

November 5, 2012, 08:31 PM	#11
dacaur Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Posts: 733	COL or COAL = Cartridge Overall Length. The length of the completed cartridge from the base of the brass to the tip of the bullet (measured with a set of calipers, or micrometers if you are crazy)

November 6, 2012, 01:34 PM	#13
bitttorrrent Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Chicago Posts: 703	Ok, you forgot to put your glasses on - all of the pictures are blurry. I wanted to see the buldge because I have on my 9mm loads and am new to reloading, but I think is different problem. I do know that after firing off my first batch, I put in some factory hollow points after and wow, it was like blasting a canon. I guess my loads are on the softer end - just rounded or mostly rounded lead. I did not realize the bullet itself had so much to do with the recoil and if it was lead or copper. I just recieved a new batch of copper bullets so will try that next. So many variables and I at least have to wait until I have some time and then go to the range so it is a long process. But I am happy that my first ever batch was 100% (except for my primer error on one, but that was my fault)

November 6, 2012, 03:15 PM	#15
John Ciccarelli Member Join Date: September 18, 2012 Posts: 20	Sorry about the quality of the pictures, but this is the best I could do. This is a S&W sd40VE. I have found others with this bulge. The chamfer allows the case to bulge a little.