July 4, 2013, 06:48 PM | #26 |
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Less blow back danger with a stream than a cone.. Fox Labs here. NO OC is always effective, anyone that says it is, is clueless. If you use it, haul fanny out of there, but, call 911 ASAP!
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July 4, 2013, 07:48 PM | #27 |
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OC sprays; chemical agents, time.....
A good point posted here is to check your chemical agent often to make sure it works correctly.
Many OC sprays & cans have the date posted on them. My Sabre Red CrossFire Mark III runs until 2014 or so but I plan to replace it sooner. It discharged when I tested it about 2mo ago so I feel safe with it. Id add that humidity, extreme temperate changes, water-moisture, etc may also damage the OC spray or gel. Some packages even state not to transport by aircraft. ClydeFrog |
July 5, 2013, 10:23 AM | #28 |
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Something to ponder, Pepper spray, mace, etc. is a controlled item in many areas. You have to know the laws where ever you go.
HOWEVER, hair spray isn't. Hair spray is quite common with many women but it is just as effective as pepper spray & mace. Many consider pepper spray/mace to be a weapon. Never heard of a local that limits hair spray.
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July 5, 2013, 09:23 PM | #29 |
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Hair care products....
Id be leery of suggesting any hair care items for personal defense.
They may be handy & "legal" but they may also be flammable, . As some older TFLers may recall, singer/entertainer Michael Jackson had a serious injury on the set of a Pepsi cola ad in the late 1980s. His excessive hair care chemicals made his hair burn. I also recall a scene in a 1970s era James Bond spy film where Roger Moore's 007 used a lighter & a spray can as a weapon. You may say; "hey, that's some Mythbusters type stuff but Id caution you. A female police officer in the Daytona Beach FL area had a event where she hit a violent subject with a Taser weapon. The darts hit a cheap lighter in a shirt pocket & caused serious burns. The man later sued the police officer, the city & the PD for a huge amount of $$$. Keep in mind, even in a use of force event, your actions & mindset will be under close scrutiny by the prosecutors & investigators. Whether its a OC spray, a Taser, a can of bug spray, or a firearm. |
July 5, 2013, 09:54 PM | #30 |
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Good discussion. One thing: there is a lot of variability in pepper sprays. Something like Fox Labs and the cheap keychain stuff next to the register at Walmart are worlds apart. A few things I've picked up over the years, in no particular order:
1. NEVER carry it on your keychain. Your keys are likely to be on the bottom of your purse or deep in your pocket. You'll fumble and stumble trying to get to it, and then if you drop it or if it's knocked out of your hand, you're stuck without your keys as well. Keep it in your purse side pocket or on your belt. 2. Never hold it out in front of you so as to say, "hey, if you mess with me I'll spray you..." That does two things. First, it lets the attacker know you have it, so he'll shield his face or be ready to turn his head quickly. Second, it makes it easy to knock it out of your hand. Keep it in your hand, but in a pocket, side pocket or at your side, so you can whip it out and spray him by surprise. 3. Remember, the INSTANT the attacker recognizes what's happening, he'll hold up his hands and twist his face away from you. You'll have just a fraction of a second to hit him. That's why I'm strongly against "stream" sprays. An attacker violently ducking and weaving and twisting is almost impossible to hit with a stream. Go with the fog/mist. Yes, blowback is an issue. Just be aware of your wind direction. 4. I haven't tested these sprays, but have researched them extensively, and for all apparent purposes, nothing comes close to Fox Labs. There are a bunch of YouTubes showing people getting sprayed by this stuff, including ex-Marines and SWATs. Try these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kAkHPuBM8U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCQRF0dko9w http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5TNzvajcVo 5. NEVER spray "just a little bit to see how it works." This can sort of break the seal and cause the pressure to leak out. Fox Labs, in fact, sells one filled with water, just for this "practice." Last edited by Ruark; July 5, 2013 at 10:12 PM. |
July 5, 2013, 10:03 PM | #31 |
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Good points/Zarc-Vexor....
Those are great points but in fairness, Zarc(the firm that produces Vexor) states that the cans are safe to carry-use & are designed to work consistently in duty conditions.
As noted, Vexor is in wide use with major LE agencies & corrections but may not be available to private citizens. |
July 5, 2013, 10:06 PM | #32 |
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Re: Pepper Spray
Ruark, some manufacturers recommend testing your spray periodically to make sure it is still operating (and not just with training canisters).
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July 5, 2013, 10:17 PM | #33 | |
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July 6, 2013, 12:45 PM | #34 |
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Deployment....
I would agree too with the advice to be discreet about deploying the chemical agent. I had a incident in 2011 with a intoxicated subject who became more aggressive when I pulled out my OC spray.
Id add that took issue with my OC/Mace class instructor(a retired cop & SE Asia combat veteran). He was a great teacher but told our class that a subject hit with OC or chemical agent will not be a threat or will comply with you & allow first aid to be used. I highly doubt any career crook or gang member hit with OC or a EDW(Taser) will suddenly become docile or compliant. If anything, the smart move would be to flee(beat cheeks) or if working as a armed professional, secure or restrain the subject. When the PD or local LE officers arrive, they can remove the restraints & apply first aid. EMTs & firefighters are trained to not provide aid until the area is safe. |
July 6, 2013, 01:39 PM | #35 |
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When deployinv the spray retreat backwards to make sure you dont catch the spray and in the event the attacker decides to counterattack.
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July 6, 2013, 04:17 PM | #36 |
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more is not always better and there are very specific reasons that half second burst is the norm in training. It has a lot to do with adrenaline and how excess OC can work against you.
free tid-bit of info: Sooner or later You WILL get cross contaminated with your own OC. Keep this in mind when you "think" you want 4million SHU. There are plenty of bursts in a 2 oz high pressure can Foam is much better in confined spaces ballistic stream is better than cone its easy to underestimate the aeration ability of OC More is not always better Hotter is not always better Non- high pressure cans don't seem to work very well high pressure cans ( concave bottoms) seem to work well.
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July 6, 2013, 08:01 PM | #37 | |||
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I can't speak for the other commenters here, but I carry OC for a living and have used it numerous times against both people and dogs. I have also had it used against me in training (and once accidentally in the field [it was of the fog variety]), and am satisfied with its effectiveness. One thing to remember, is that even if the recipient is drunk, high, or a mental (and I have used it against all of these goofs), if you use it correctly, it will at the very least blind the person, which increases your tactical options.
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July 6, 2013, 08:25 PM | #38 |
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Bear spray (30 foot) and a follow up zapper to shock the crude out of them. That works until they pull their gun while you have your hands full of spray.
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July 7, 2013, 12:51 AM | #39 | |
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