Receiver Group From Destroyed USGI M14

Max McCord · May 22, 2008, 06:08 PM

I have an acquaintance who found (I don't know when) the largely intact receiver group from a destroyed military-issue M14. The rifle had obviously been sawn into at least three pieces. The barrel, stock, gas operating connections and everything else just in front of the receiver group were cut and the stock was cut through just behind the receiver. The overall condition seems quite good, and the mechanism operates smoothly manually. He has offered it to me. Obviously the action, without gas-operation capability is capable of neither full- nor semi-automatic operation. The selector seems to also be non-functional. I would like, assuming it is feasible, to use the receiver group as the basis for a "bolt-action" sporter. I have the impression that a complete restoration would not be an option. I would like to find replacement parts to built a semi-auto version, but it seems likely I couldn't do that either. Assuming that to be the case, is there any legal or practical reason why I could not build a magazine-fed, manually operated "bolt-action" sporter using the receiver group as the basis? Assuming it to be possible, what hurdles would need to be overcome? Also, is there any way to investigate the history of the original rifle?

Note: Second submission accidental.

thallub · May 22, 2008, 06:26 PM

Don't get caught with that receiver.

B. Lahey · May 22, 2008, 06:39 PM

I think you would end up with the first bolt action machine gun in history if you did that (according to the feds, anyway).

Max McCord · May 22, 2008, 06:53 PM

Hey, Thallub,

Thanks for your input. I Take it you think there isn't anyway to use it. I have no interest in breaking any laws, but it would be a shame to have to destroy something like this. My friend can't use it at all, regardless of its history. He is German and their laws are extremely hard.

I don't know if I made it clear, but there is no way to make this equipment fire automatically. It will not even fire semi-automatically. There are none of the necessary parts present for any kind of gas operation. Each round would have to be manually chambered. That is why I called it a "bolt Action".

If the device is not being used in any illegal way and is not capable of being used in any specifically legally-proscribed manner, it makes no sense that I couldn't make use of it. This is particularly true when it is considered that the government rejected ownership by destroying the rifle and discarding the residue. I would be willling to meet, or try to meet, any legal requirements for legal ownership and use. I'm a law-abiding person, but sometimes it seems that the people who make the laws are most notable for their lack of intelligence. Assuming that you are correct, would the only use I could make of the receiver be to salvage the parts legally usable in another rifle such as the trigger assembly?

Max

PTK · May 22, 2008, 07:12 PM

In the USA, the receiver itself is the prohibited item, along with certain firearm parts. I don't know the specifics of the M14, but the receiver alone, even completely stripped down, is considered a machinegun by the BATFE.

bushidomosquito · May 22, 2008, 07:16 PM

The feds only care what the parts were designed to do, not what they can and cannot do. Spirit of the law is not in the BATFE vocabulary. You could be using an unregistered full auto reciever as a door stop, paperweight or trailer hitch cover and they will still bust you if they can. Because they can.

James K · May 22, 2008, 10:32 PM

There are specific rules about how that receiver should have been destroyed (made not a machinegun), including torch cut and complete removal of the center section. If those rules were not followed, the gun is still a machinegun under federal law, and illegal because it is not registered. His only legal option is to surrender it to the police or BATFE and hope they don't decide to make brownie points by arresting him. Some folks might say to dump it in a deep lake or "unfind" it wherever he found it. Some folks might also suggest you have nothing to do with it and wipe off your fingerprints.

BTW, Bushido, BATFE is not violating the "spirit" of the law; that "designed to" phrase IS the exact wording of the law.

Jim

freakshow10mm · May 22, 2008, 10:35 PM

Remember the OP is in Germany. USA law does not apply. Let's talk Germany laws, not USA laws as that will not do the OP any good.

James K · May 22, 2008, 10:39 PM

Ooops! Sorry, I usually look at the location on those questions, but failed to do so this time. I have no idea what German law is.

Jim

B. Lahey · May 23, 2008, 12:59 AM

He already told us what the German law is:

Quote:

My friend can't use it at all, regardless of its history. He is German and their laws are extremely hard.

As I understand it he is looking for the American law on the subject for his eventual return to the US.

Max McCord · May 23, 2008, 06:19 AM

Well, I think I have a good understanding of the situation. I'll let my friend know what is what. I will get the salvageable and legally-usable parts (trigger group, rear sight, etc.) from him and he'll cut the remainder apart with his cutting torch. It is a shame.

I appreciate your assistance.

May 22, 2008, 06:08 PM	#1
Max McCord Junior Member Join Date: May 22, 2008 Location: Germany (Temporary). Posts: 3	Receiver Group From Destroyed USGI M14 I have an acquaintance who found (I don't know when) the largely intact receiver group from a destroyed military-issue M14. The rifle had obviously been sawn into at least three pieces. The barrel, stock, gas operating connections and everything else just in front of the receiver group were cut and the stock was cut through just behind the receiver. The overall condition seems quite good, and the mechanism operates smoothly manually. He has offered it to me. Obviously the action, without gas-operation capability is capable of neither full- nor semi-automatic operation. The selector seems to also be non-functional. I would like, assuming it is feasible, to use the receiver group as the basis for a "bolt-action" sporter. I have the impression that a complete restoration would not be an option. I would like to find replacement parts to built a semi-auto version, but it seems likely I couldn't do that either. Assuming that to be the case, is there any legal or practical reason why I could not build a magazine-fed, manually operated "bolt-action" sporter using the receiver group as the basis? Assuming it to be possible, what hurdles would need to be overcome? Also, is there any way to investigate the history of the original rifle? Note: Second submission accidental.

May 22, 2008, 06:53 PM	#4
Max McCord Junior Member Join Date: May 22, 2008 Location: Germany (Temporary). Posts: 3	No Hope? Hey, Thallub, Thanks for your input. I Take it you think there isn't anyway to use it. I have no interest in breaking any laws, but it would be a shame to have to destroy something like this. My friend can't use it at all, regardless of its history. He is German and their laws are extremely hard. I don't know if I made it clear, but there is no way to make this equipment fire automatically. It will not even fire semi-automatically. There are none of the necessary parts present for any kind of gas operation. Each round would have to be manually chambered. That is why I called it a "bolt Action". If the device is not being used in any illegal way and is not capable of being used in any specifically legally-proscribed manner, it makes no sense that I couldn't make use of it. This is particularly true when it is considered that the government rejected ownership by destroying the rifle and discarding the residue. I would be willling to meet, or try to meet, any legal requirements for legal ownership and use. I'm a law-abiding person, but sometimes it seems that the people who make the laws are most notable for their lack of intelligence. Assuming that you are correct, would the only use I could make of the receiver be to salvage the parts legally usable in another rifle such as the trigger assembly? Max

May 22, 2008, 07:16 PM	#6
bushidomosquito Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2007 Location: Kansas City Posts: 434	The feds only care what the parts were designed to do, not what they can and cannot do. Spirit of the law is not in the BATFE vocabulary. You could be using an unregistered full auto reciever as a door stop, paperweight or trailer hitch cover and they will still bust you if they can. Because they can. __________________ "Jack Bauer sleeps with a pillow under his gun." "Bush is listening, use big words."

May 23, 2008, 06:19 AM	#11
Max McCord Junior Member Join Date: May 22, 2008 Location: Germany (Temporary). Posts: 3	Thanks Guys. Well, I think I have a good understanding of the situation. I'll let my friend know what is what. I will get the salvageable and legally-usable parts (trigger group, rear sight, etc.) from him and he'll cut the remainder apart with his cutting torch. It is a shame. I appreciate your assistance.

May 22, 2008, 06:26 PM	#2
thallub Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: South Western OK Posts: 3,112	Don't get caught with that receiver.

May 22, 2008, 06:39 PM	#3
B. Lahey Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,857	I think you would end up with the first bolt action machine gun in history if you did that (according to the feds, anyway).

May 22, 2008, 07:12 PM	#5
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 442	In the USA, the receiver itself is the prohibited item, along with certain firearm parts. I don't know the specifics of the M14, but the receiver alone, even completely stripped down, is considered a machinegun by the BATFE.

May 22, 2008, 10:32 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	There are specific rules about how that receiver should have been destroyed (made not a machinegun), including torch cut and complete removal of the center section. If those rules were not followed, the gun is still a machinegun under federal law, and illegal because it is not registered. His only legal option is to surrender it to the police or BATFE and hope they don't decide to make brownie points by arresting him. Some folks might say to dump it in a deep lake or "unfind" it wherever he found it. Some folks might also suggest you have nothing to do with it and wipe off your fingerprints. BTW, Bushido, BATFE is not violating the "spirit" of the law; that "designed to" phrase IS the exact wording of the law. Jim

May 22, 2008, 10:35 PM	#8
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	Remember the OP is in Germany. USA law does not apply. Let's talk Germany laws, not USA laws as that will not do the OP any good.

May 22, 2008, 10:39 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Ooops! Sorry, I usually look at the location on those questions, but failed to do so this time. I have no idea what German law is. Jim