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Old June 9, 2013, 01:58 AM   #26
black mamba
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I'd give you a 100% profit on the nickel 57 right now. Just a PM away.
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Old June 9, 2013, 05:28 AM   #27
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The other primary reason why the round failed to gain popularity with LE was that the initially available guns were all expensive and heavy large-frame revolvers.
I seem to remember that the cost of a M57 had the same list price as a M29...but could be wrong. In any event the price did no keep me from buying a M58 and a M57.
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Old June 9, 2013, 05:40 AM   #28
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Forty One

Another die-hard .41 Magnum fan here. I consider it to be overall the best heavy revolver round to come down the pike.

I've never thought that the old "Police Load" brought too much recoil to the table, being pretty much equivalent to a 158-grain loading in a K-Frame .357 revolver...but it's no powder puff.

A lot of the reason that it never caught on with its intended LEO market was that it's only chambered in large-framed revolvers. It's big and it's heavy. For some officers with smaller hands, it was hard to manage. For some of smaller stature, it was hard to carry for an entire shift, and even the big guys complained of its weight.
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Old June 9, 2013, 06:03 AM   #29
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I've never thought that the old "Police Load" brought too much recoil to the table, being pretty much equivalent to a 158-grain loading in a K-Frame .357 revolver...but it's no powder puff.
Nevertheless, I remember articles over the years in the gun rags that stated just that. They maintained that, what was needed to enable the .41 M58's to do the job that they were designed for, was an even milder load than the "police load". Elmer Keith would not have likely agreed with that though.
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Old June 9, 2013, 10:19 PM   #30
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I guess that I am just not all that recoil sensitive, I think that my M29 with a 4" barrel is just fine with 240 grain loads. I just recently acquired a M57 and so far I really like it. I am still in the process of finding the load that I like the best in my gun, but what kind of wimp thinks that the .41 mag kicks too hard?

BTW I am 61 years old and I do have some arthritis in my hands and wrists.
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Old June 10, 2013, 07:57 AM   #31
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...but what kind of wimp thinks that the .41 mag kicks too hard?
The kind who evaluates from the perspective of a gun intended for police use. You know, where one shoots double-action and has to recover from the recoil and get back on target. Shooting for fun, shooting single-action, hunting deer, etc., then the .41's recoil is not much of a concern.

This is not to disparage the .41's, I have had three and the .41 is my most favorite cartridge. I have used a .41 for local bowling pin competitions and have taken a large White Tail doe shooting double-action. I shot the deer with a moderately heavy load of Blue Dot (before the warning not to use B.D.), under a Lyman 212 gas checked cast bullet. All other shooting, a very light cast bullet load (240 grain, round nose plain base, Saeco mould, over only 6.5 Unique).

I found that due to my experience shooting so much double action, than I could get back on track and hit the deer three times more as she ran. Nevertheless, the key word is "experience". I shot that .41 constantly and had years of practice with it, where as the policemen I have know, and observed shooting were not "shooters", despite their occupations. That is the central issue with the .41 comes...did it recoil too much for rapid-fire use by the average policeman? And to that, the gun writers who wrote about why the .41 did not catch on as a police weapon stated, that it recoiled too much to be controlled in rapid fire...even with the police load.
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Old June 10, 2013, 08:31 AM   #32
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It is an inbetweener round that has rounds above and below it that can do any job better. It really does not fill a need better handled by something else.
Marketing gimmik that failed.
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Old June 10, 2013, 10:52 AM   #33
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I think the real reason it didn't take is because both the other magnum rounds were based on a shorter established round, eg the .357 was based on the .38 spl., and the .44 magnum was based on the .44 spl.
This has other advantages, like using .38 spl for practice in a .357 magnum, etc.
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Old June 10, 2013, 12:14 PM   #34
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caz and Rifleman took the words from my mouth for the most part.

Why is the Chevy 350 the most popular small-block V8 engine in the world? Because it has the best bone-stock mix of power and economy of any GM engine ever made for full-size cars and light trucks. The 350 is flat-out the cheapest engine to buy and build fast, partly due to its' being produced by the millions since the late 60s. EVERYONE makes go-fast parts for the 350 and it is NEVER going to go away.

What does a 350 have to do with this discussion? I've found that in any given hobby there's a subset of folks that like to prove conventional wisdom wrong. They like to show that their particular "favorite" is just as good, if not better than whatever is most popular. For whatever reason, they chafe at doing what everyone else is doing and insist on going their own way. Is there anything particularly wrong with that? No, but when they start beating the "mine is better, mine is better nahnahnahnahnahnah" drum, it does get a bit annoying.

Props to the guy that builds a Chevy 283 to have insane power and torque, which I can appreciate but the question remains - why? I know, I know, "because I can." Good for you dude, good for you. And how much pain and effort did you put into finding the right pistons for that? And how much more $$ did you spend per HP than the same operation on a 350? If you're happy with the results, I guess that's all that matters, but please don't pooh-pooh my mildly built 350 that lays down consistent, fast times at the local track just because it's the same size engine "everyone else" has.

I'm sure the .41 Magnum is great. If it works for you, even better. I'll stick with my 357 and 44 magnums, thank you.
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Old June 10, 2013, 07:08 PM   #35
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re:

Quote:
I'm sure the .41 Magnum is great. If it works for you, even better. I'll stick with my 357 and 44 magnums, thank you.
Love it!

More .41s for we who know it well enough to understand that it's more than just a "Big .357" or a 'little .44" especially if the revolver is a 4.62-inch Blackhawk. It strikes just the right balance of portability, power, and recoil and if loaded to its full potential, there's little that a .44 can do that a .41 can't. It's also dead simple to load accurate ammunition for it, from 700 fps plinkers to full-bore snot knockers. Use a good bullet and pick a powder.

It has a faithful following for several reasons...none of which include "Because I can" or "Mine is better than yours nanananahhhhh."

For the record, I'll never be without a .357 Magnum revolver as long as I have a say in the matter...but I don't even have a .44 after having owned more than a dozen. For some reason, they always seemed to go away, while the .41s stayed.
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Old June 10, 2013, 08:38 PM   #36
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There was no need to fill so it died on the vine. Nothing wrong with it but the .44 will do anything the .41 will do and more.
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Old June 10, 2013, 08:44 PM   #37
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More .41s for we who know it well enough to understand that it's more than just a "Big .357" or a 'little .44" especially if the revolver is a 4.62-inch Blackhawk...
Had one of those, a 3-screw Blackhawk. Always carried it when walking along the Pere Marquette River area that was across the road from my land. It was just the "right size". Sold it to a college who liked its effect on Southern Michigan deer. The barrel being the same length as the ejector housing, made it a joy to handle.
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Old June 10, 2013, 08:48 PM   #38
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I think the real reason it didn't take is because both the other magnum rounds were based on a shorter established round, eg the .357 was based on the .38 spl., and the .44 magnum was based on the .44 spl.
This has other advantages, like using .38 spl for practice in a .357 magnum, etc
And to those of us who hand load (and cast), that is a moot point. Most of the .41 Magnum ammo I shot over the years was very lightly loaded...."41 Specials", sans carbon rings in the chambers from shooting shorter rounds.
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Old June 11, 2013, 03:22 PM   #39
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Before I start I'll apologize for any typos due to being on my phone. Okay now on to the question. Most have already stated why the .41 mag never took off. But one also has to realize that Americans are all about having the biggest or fastest whatever. So to that end the .44 fans will always talk down about the .41 mag. However the reality of it is the .41 will do anything the .44 can when properly loaded.

Then you have the .357 fans who like to talk about having lighter revolvers and the ability to buy ammo for less. To that end I always reply with so what the .41 is a true big bore not a wannabe. Contrary to what some will lead others to believe ammo for the .41 is cheaper than for the .44. The components such as bullets are also cheaper. Folks like to say well the .41 can't throw heavy bullets like the .44. Who really cares? Since when did standard weight big bore bullets stop being enough for game such as deer, pig, and black bear sized game?

They were enough for Elmer and they're still enough today so that excuse doesn't hold any water. Point is the .41 is a fine cartridge but people won't give it a chance except those of us that are in the know.
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Old June 11, 2013, 05:04 PM   #40
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Wow, heated discussion. I like the 350 Chevy comparison. I have a 289, but no 41 magnum, just 44 and 357. maybe I need one? Maybe I need a 350 Chev? Maybe both!
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Old June 11, 2013, 05:39 PM   #41
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If you get a 41 mag, please don't shoot it because you may end up like me getting rid of the 44 mags.
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Old June 11, 2013, 05:55 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1911Tuner:

It's also dead simple to load accurate ammunition for it, from 700 fps plinkers to full-bore snot knockers. Use a good bullet and pick a powder.
Quote:
Originally posted by dahermit:

And to those of us who hand load (and cast), that is a moot point.
The .41 like it's siblings the .357 and .44 are all easily handloaded for and all can be loaded light or hot. Fact is tho, the majority of folks that own handguns, outside of this forum, do not handload. Those folks favor those guns that have a wide variety of ammo options available. With the increased interest in reloading, there has been an increase interest in calibers like the .41 and .45Colt where factory ammo options are limited and pricey.
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Old June 11, 2013, 06:16 PM   #43
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This has probably been pointed out already... I haven't read thru all the posts. The true diameter of a 41mag bullet is .41inch. The true diameter of a 44mag bullet is .429inch. The 44 mag lovers aren't shooting a 44.

So the difference in bullet diameter is only .19 inches, not 3/100 that might otherwise be attributed. Seems the slightly smaller diameter of the 41mag leaves a little more metal in the cylinder between charge holes making for a slightly stronger revolver especially in the S&W 57s/58s.

Count me as a big fan of the 41magnum. I own at least 6 S&Ws in that caliber.
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Old June 11, 2013, 06:26 PM   #44
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I own all three; .357, .41mag., and .44mag. I will take my .41 for accuracy any day. My .41mag using my cast target reloads will knock out the 10 ring at 25 yards with no problem, and drop a deer in it's tracks with my HP/XTP reloads.
Those never experiencing the fun of owning this fine caliber is missing out.


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Old June 11, 2013, 08:18 PM   #45
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Back before I handloaded, I owned .38, .357 and .44 revolvers.
Since I started handloading, the .44s went away. Likewise the .38s (although just recently, I bought another). I added .45LC and .41...and ever since, shoot one of those two almost exclusively when I shoot a revolver.

If I had to pick between the two, it would be very difficult. But I don't think I'd be disappointed either way.

"What happened?"

Some very knowledgeable and discerning shooters and loaders discovered the best-kept secret in revolverdom.

The great unwashed masses have yet to learn what we discovered some time ago..sorry about that.
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Old June 11, 2013, 09:07 PM   #46
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Spot on Orion



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Old June 11, 2013, 11:54 PM   #47
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I treasure my 4" M-57, may enjoyable shooting sessions with it. I think the 41 Magnum was somewhat over hyped, like the 10MM Auto, then people found it really filled no niche, some respects merely a "Junior" 44.
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Old June 12, 2013, 05:25 AM   #48
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Quote:
...the majority of folks that own handguns, outside of this forum, do not handload...
That is why handloaders are also known as "shooters", whereas those who do not handload are known as, "gun owners". Save for the wealthy, handgun owners who do not handload (and cast bullets), cannot afford to shoot much and do not actually shoot as much as they think that they do.
The .41 is an excellent vehicle for cast lead bullets, albeit the mould choices are much less than for the .44.
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Old June 12, 2013, 11:36 PM   #49
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With a .44 Magnum or a .357 Magnum you get 2, yes 2, two guns in one! You don't get that with a .41 Magnum. You only get 1 gun. A .41 Special should have been introduced at the same time as the Magnum round, and sold at a price competitive with .38 and .44 Special loads. Winchester, Marlin and Rossi should have introduced lever guns at the same time the revolvers were made. Any new caliber should be introduced as a complete package, with all the bases covered. As it is, regardless of its merits, the .41 Magnum is the answer to a question very few asked.
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Old June 13, 2013, 07:40 AM   #50
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...A .41 Special should have been introduced at the same time as the Magnum round...
It was (albeit, in the same length as the "hunting load"),...it was referred to as the "Police Load", in the posts above. The problem was (I am old enough to remember and shot the "police loads"), they still produced too much recoil.
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