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August 19, 2019, 09:07 AM | #51 |
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I wouldn't buy anything I'm using for home defense from ebay. Too many variables there. I'd stick with a reputable dealer for anything firearms related. Just my two cents.
And for home defense nothing beats a good red dot (in my opinion). To me, for close quarters, there is no downside to using a red dot. Even for distances out to 100 yards, the red dot does the job. The Aimpoint PRO is one of the best optics for the price point. I also like the Inforce WML for my light. |
August 19, 2019, 10:39 AM | #52 |
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If you foresee the possibility of having to use your AR at short range for self-defense, you should train to deal with the large sight axis to bore axis offset that is inherent in the AR platform. This will require you to hold over your intended point of impact at short range, for any realistic zero range you choose for your optic.
I am not great at estimating range but am working at getting better. I zero my red dots at 50 yards for my AR rifles and carbines. My rule of thumb is to aim 2" high for a range of less than 20 yards, 1" high for ranges of 20-40 yards, and dead-on for ranges of 40-80 yards. This will place my point of impact within about 1/2" of my desired POI. |
August 20, 2019, 07:30 AM | #53 | |
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Quote:
-Unless you go the NFA route, an AR-15 can be legally be made shorter than a shotgun. -An AR will have much less recoil. -Engaging multiple targets is faster and easier with an AR. -Follow-up shots are much faster and easier with an AR. -With proper defensive ammo, an AR will penetrate FAR less through walls than almost any defensive shotgun or handgun load. -The AR has a much higher capacity. -The AR is much easier and faster to reload. -The average AR is more reliable than the average semi-auto shotgun. And the AR will usually be more reliable than even a pump shotgun unless the shooter is well-trained and pumps the shotgun properly each time (I'm fairly proficient with the 870 and 590A1, but I've owned both and I've had more stoppages with those two than I've ever had with any AR I've owned).
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August 29, 2019, 12:26 PM | #54 |
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All the talk of shotgun/rifle/pistol doesn't matter. Pick one and learn it and practice with it until you know it like the back of your hand. I'd suggest the Romeo 5 for a red-dot. I've had one for over a year now and it has been a great sight. I especially like the auto on and the great battery life. That being said, for HD I use a Para P14 and an AR. Options are always better. I run an EOtech on my rifle because it is simply the fastest sight on target, period. 14.5 lightweight barrel with permanently attached FH. It makes getting around just a little easier. I do have MI BUIS on the rifle just in case, and a Streamlight gun light to identify targets in the dark, but i am very judicious in the use of a light as it makes you pretty much an an easy target. Once again, it is of the utmost importance, whatever weapon you choose, to learn how and when you can use that weapon properly.
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August 29, 2019, 01:02 PM | #55 |
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Home defense it most likely gonna be a point and shoot situation at very close range, most likely inside 20 feet. handgun or shotgun is gonna be the faster gun. As far as the 2" high hold or 1" low ain't really part of the self defense situation. Too mush thinking and figuring out hold point. Plus or minus 2" while holding center mass don't matter. It'll do the job. Self defense at long range ain't likely unless it's THE MAN coming for your guns. If that's the case the battle zero will do the job.
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August 29, 2019, 01:14 PM | #56 | |
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Quote:
Relatively unlikely scenarios for home defense, but definitely possible. |
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August 29, 2019, 03:16 PM | #57 | |
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August 29, 2019, 03:51 PM | #58 | ||||
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August 29, 2019, 04:27 PM | #59 |
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MTT TL, you’ve been here for a decade now. So this can’t be your first “5.56 for HD” rodeo. What part are you skeptical about? The “FAR less?”
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August 29, 2019, 09:18 PM | #60 |
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Yep. Don't get me wrong I prefer the AR15 for HD, I just don't give it powers it doesn't have.
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August 30, 2019, 08:06 AM | #61 |
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OK, maybe “FAR less” is an overstatement in some of the tests I’ve seen. But it’s established fact by now: A .223 hollow-point will usually penetrate less through building materials than a centerfire pistol round or a buckshot load, even #4. It’s because the small bullet is traveling fast enough that it usually breaks up and the pieces tend lose energy sooner. That’s one of the reasons why the AR-15 has pretty much replaced the shotgun in police cars around the country. The FBI had a good analysis of this a while back.
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August 30, 2019, 08:23 AM | #62 |
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Fair enough; I’ll agree that the AR is not a magical HD gun of perfection. But I think that the shotgun’s reputation among the general gun-owning public as being the ideal HD firearm is undeserved. I think the shotgun is overrated for HD, and the AR is underrated.
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August 30, 2019, 12:54 PM | #63 |
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Bart, IDPA is a game. Timer is fine but for a real home defense situation, middle of the night, grab your piece off the night stand and fire. Or, get your rifle, turn on the red dot, aim and fire. I think most will make the shot faster with the hand gun. There are exceptions of course, when the home invasion gang of 6 or 8 bad guys hit you the rifle would be better, at least till you go down. I think I'll set up half a dozen Claymores and be sure.
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August 30, 2019, 12:57 PM | #64 | |
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Lots of people use birdshot at HD ranges for HD. After extensive testing, the US Army adopted it for CQB in their shotguns to cut down on penetration as well. At close ranges it is devastating and it will not go through three whole walls of dry wall of an average length house. The odds of it exiting out of your house at all and doing damage to an unintended target outside your house is very low.
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August 30, 2019, 02:27 PM | #65 |
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I prefer the AR-15 for HD, but generally limit that to stationary defense with a concrete/earthen backstop. Pistols are good for mobility and doing things with your off hand. Shotguns are more effective, per trigger pull, but suffer a bit in speed, mobility, and follow up shots. (That said, most 00 buck shells deliver the equivalent of 9x .32ACP rounds per trigger pull!)
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August 30, 2019, 02:49 PM | #66 | |
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August 31, 2019, 11:36 AM | #67 |
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It's a game and it's fun to shoot. Not realistic at all in your bed room at 3AM.
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August 31, 2019, 04:09 PM | #68 | |
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Unless I am lying in the bed when someone breaks down my bedroom door the rifle is going to be faster. And if I am lying in the bed the pistol won't be fast enough because the ninjas are coming to get me.
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August 31, 2019, 06:12 PM | #69 |
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I just built (assembled from upper assembly and stripped lower) an M4 carbine copy. Already pricing A2 parts to build a copy of an M16 Vietnam era...but boy that will be way more expensive than the one I just finished. Building is way more fun than I feel I deserve.
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September 1, 2019, 02:51 PM | #70 | |
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September 1, 2019, 04:49 PM | #71 |
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I would advise...both.
Get a Primary Arms or Holosun Red Dotsight on either a lower 1/3 cowitness mount or a direct cowitness mount. Run that when shooting close range and when stored for home defense. Dont forget that you will actually have to turn it on first in the event that you end up needing to use it. Another option is to get a Primary Arms illuminated 1-4x or 1-6x magnified optic. I still think for HD use in most homes a 1-X optic is going to be a lot slower than a red dot. It is for me anyway. I may sound like a PA saleman but really they are the only optics I've found that are reasonable in price and yet still deliver pretty darn good quality. Others will probably recommend Vortex and thats all fine and good. But I have 4 PA optics and I cant comment on their warranty because I've never needed it. All anyone ever wants to talk about with Vortex seems to be their warranty. |
September 4, 2019, 12:09 PM | #72 |
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I agree with you Pete, a rifle for home defense isn't for everyone. However, the AR-15 is a good home defense weapon choice. This article is a great read: https://thenewsrep.com/118437/home-d...-use-an-ar-15/
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September 4, 2019, 12:10 PM | #73 | |
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September 7, 2019, 11:52 AM | #74 |
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I'm running Sig Romeo4c red dot on my home defense rifle. Folding rear sight in the down position, with A2 front sight and Romeo set at absolute cowitness...works for me, is light, fast, easy, reliable.
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September 8, 2019, 01:04 AM | #75 |
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I'm currently building two AR15s, one of which will be used for hd. ..not sure if I'll like it for that role or not as I haven't even put the thing together yet. But from what I've read I figure it'll do just fine assuming it's reliable. ..nothing in my book is more important than reliability. It's gotta go bang & cycle well. I'll always have a hg available for quick access, but I'd think a long gun would be preferred if one could get to it due to its longer sight radius. HGs are just tough at hitting a moving target. ..lots of reasons for using the AR15. I think I'm gonna like it especially for the ability to easily add things like a light & red dot. The Sig Romeo 5 just sits there in what I'll call Sleep mode 'til the carbine is touched @ which time it comes to life. ..saves the battery. ..very easy to accessorize. But who knows, maybe I'll put it together & hate it. ..will find out. But my bet is I'm gonna love it. ..could always use one of my pump shotguns but dang they kick a lot more, hold fewer rounds & I fear cycling the slide under pressure could be less reliable than letting a quality AR cycle itself.
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