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Old July 26, 2019, 05:10 PM   #26
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Nope, the fact that you don't have to thumb cock a revolver makes the semi easier to shoot.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.

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5 shots 10 second with one hand is harder to do with the revolver than the semi.
if that's your standard, fine. It may be easier with a semi, but its not impossible with a revolver. Depending on WHICH semi and which revolver you're talking about, and who the shooter is.

there are a lot of generalities being slung about, with a handful of people providing their personal experience. Blanket statements such as "this is easier to shoot than that" are pretty meaningless.

Compare different specific guns, and calibers and then compare different people's abilities with each, THEN you might have something relevant, but only to those guns and those people.

Here's a point to consider regarding the generally higher ammunition capacity of semis, You, personally, and your wallet, are responsible for every round you fire, and what it does.

Police officers have their department, lawyers, union reps, and tax dollars behind them. You, and I, don't.

The TV and movie action hero blazes away, provides his own cover fire, and also never seems to be bothered by the noise, either. (the point here is that it is entertainment, and not meant to be realistic or taken seriously)

The problem isn't so much people having more rounds in the gun and fast reloads, as it is people using those rounds when they don't need to, just because they have them, and because that's what the movie and video screen has been teaching them, their entire lives.

I'm not trying to talk you in to, or out of any particular choice, but remember that advantages playing various games may not be equally advantageous in other situations.

So, go ahead and float blanket statements as trial balloons, and I'll play FlaK gun and see if I can shoot them down. If I can't, you might have something worthwhile...
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Old July 26, 2019, 05:54 PM   #27
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I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.
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if that's your standard, fine.
I believe this poster is referring to the comment about not seeing many revolvers used in bullseye ( post #18), and that having to cock a revolver in the ten second time limit for rapid fire stage each time for five shots is why revolvers are not so commonly used in the sport of "precision shooting" any longer.

Post 18 comment:
Quote:
One other thought, a semi auto is easier to shoot accurately than a revolver. That's the reason semis are used in Bullseye pistol competition.
I shot some of my best long line (50 yard) scores with a revolver, but admit that trying to get five well aimed shots and cocking the revolver for single action was no easy feat shooting a 625 in competition!
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Old July 26, 2019, 08:37 PM   #28
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I shoot a 4” K 38 in bullseye occasionally. Rapid fire I shoot DA and score well, like in the 90s. With one hand. It takes practice.

I carry a 637 with no reloads at times. I am comfortable.

David
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Old July 26, 2019, 09:40 PM   #29
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My EDC is a Ruger LCR357...I practice diligently and can shoot it accurately out to 10 yards. I've put a lot of rounds thru it to get to that point. Any short barrel revolver is going involve a learning curve.
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Old July 26, 2019, 10:49 PM   #30
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I believe this poster is referring to the comment about not seeing many revolvers used in bullseye ( post #18), and that having to cock a revolver in the ten second time limit for rapid fire stage each time for five shots is why revolvers are not so commonly used in the sport of "precision shooting" any longer.
I had not thought of it in terms of NRA bullseye competition, as I've never competed in that field.

I did, however place 3rd in a bowling pin shoot, Single action category ("Crank and Yank" ) Shooting a 7.5" Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt using my "standard" load of a 250gr LSWC over 10.0gr Unique. This is NOT a target load, not a cowboy action load, and is above standard "full house" factory, delivering almost 1100fps from my gun.

My time to clear 5 pins (with 5 shots) was 7.02 seconds. AND, it only got me 3rd place. This was a local fun match, not any kind of high level national competition or anything like that.

SO, since I've done 5 aimed shots with a single action revolver, in well under 10 seconds, and seen people do it even faster than I could, I KNOW it can be done, and done well.

Competition is always about not just what works, but what works, for you, enough better than what works for everyone else to give you an advantage. At top levels where speed matters, tiny fractions of a second count more than in other games where time is not as big a factor.

And they are ALL quite a bit different than an SD situation. Some things translate about straight across, some things,...not so much.

I often hear/see people stating the reason for choosing a particular gun or style is "because that what ____ does" now it could be the military, or the police, or a particularly successful match shooter used as the example.

Which is fine, for those things that DO apply but for me, I'm not the military, nor am I the police, and I'm never going to be one of the nation's top competition shooters, so doing what they do, because THEY do it, doesn't have a lot of applicability in my over the hill life today.

Back to general blanket statements, like this one;

Quote:
One other thought, a semi auto is easier to shoot accurately than a revolver.
This statement includes no qualifiers, no restrictions, it just flatly states an opinion and implies it is always the case.

It isn't always the case, exceptions abound and many more factors are involved than just semi auto or revolver actions.
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Old July 27, 2019, 02:02 AM   #31
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Honestly, if you do the math, the vast majority of folks, including cops, are fine with a revolver.

The odds of you needing a gun.
The odds of needing to fire it.
The odds of not being able to solve the problem with 6 rounds.

The vast majority of people blissfully wander through life without a gun. And, the vast majority get up the next day to repeat the cycle.

I (and most of the folks on a gun board) choose to carry a gun. But even in light of the recent urban youth wilding attacks, capacity is not really going to be an issue. I’m betting after the first primary aggressor gets a hole poked in him, the rest will find something more pressing to attend to. If a whole crowd seriously press the attack, you will likely be shot or disarmed before you can shoot up the third 15 round magazine.

I often carry a 3” 65 and a couple speedloaders. I don’t feel particularly vulnerable. I also don’t intentionally go places with only a handgun where an AR and hard armor plates would be required.
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Old July 27, 2019, 06:38 AM   #32
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Firing pin in the hammer in older M64's. Nice stainless 3" piece but I feel better when the hammer is down on an empty cylinder. M64 - 3 .
.02. David.
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Old July 27, 2019, 07:18 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Sgt127 View Post
Honestly, if you do the math, the vast majority of folks, including cops, are fine with a revolver.

The odds of you needing a gun.
The odds of needing to fire it.
The odds of not being able to solve the problem with 6 rounds.

The vast majority of people blissfully wander through life without a gun. And, the vast majority get up the next day to repeat the cycle.

I (and most of the folks on a gun board) choose to carry a gun. But even in light of the recent urban youth wilding attacks, capacity is not really going to be an issue. I’m betting after the first primary aggressor gets a hole poked in him, the rest will find something more pressing to attend to. If a whole crowd seriously press the attack, you will likely be shot or disarmed before you can shoot up the third 15 round magazine.

I often carry a 3” 65 and a couple speedloaders. I don’t feel particularly vulnerable. I also don’t intentionally go places with only a handgun where an AR and hard armor plates would be required.
I think your point is very well made. A lot of my early thinking when I first began carrying was probably from an instructor who taught some great classes, but did seem to view each day as a walk through a war zone, when the next roaming mob attack could be just a few feet away. I think people over-exaggerate the need to practice with ONE gun and ONE holster from ONE position ALL the time, or else muscle memory will get you killed. After all, if you've trained with a Glock, but your hand finds a Beretta when the heat is on, apparently you'll die because you won't know how to pull a slightly different trigger. (He as much as said exactly that).

Like you say, I don't go anywhere that I expect bad things to happen. It's tremendously rare that I go anywhere at night when I have to get out of the car. My odds of ever needing a firearm at all are already very near zero. The need to fire it is even lower, and to fire it more than once is lower still. So most people are probably equally armed whether it's a 10mm Glock, 5 round J-frame or a little pocket pistol.

Do you think the majority of firearms training classes are realistic at all? Most that I've seen or taken rely on putting 500 rounds downrange each day, running drills engaging multiple targets with 3-5 shots each.

Have you taken a training class with a revolver?
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Old July 27, 2019, 10:38 AM   #34
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Absolutely. I’ve taken classes and been the trainer. I shot for many years in the Glory days of IPSC. I’m a direct line student descendent of Colonel Cooper.

I spent 20 years carrying a 1911. Mandatory break with Glocks when they were issued and, back to carrying a 1911. Some claim a 1911 is low on capacity. And, it is compared to what’s out there now. And, I’m actually back to carrying a 1911 as a duty gun. I can just hit with it better than any gun out there. The 2000 rounds a month I shot with one for years may have something to do with that.

But, like a lot of “old” shooters, I started with revolvers. And I still have a fondness for them.

Going to a 500 round a day shooting school is fun. The idea behind high round shooting schools is to develop skills through repetition. Transitioning between targets, learning to swap magazines, good clean draws etc. Important skills. But, not very real world applicable to most people unless one is a Tier 1 Operator. I’ve never been attacked by a row of steel plates or a dueling tree. But, it’s just shooting training. It’s ALL good.

I do agree about not switching between gun that are radically different. Example a Beretta and a 1911. One, the safety goes UP to fire, the other DOWN. When I was required to carry a Glock, I would occasionally find myself sweeping the non existent thumb safety down. No harm though. Same with any DA gun. It will still fire. But, I also wouldn’t carry a gun with a decocker unless I trained with it. A lot. I would eventually holster it cocked because pushing down on the decocker AFTER shooting is not programmed in to me.

A DA revolver is the original point and click interface.
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Old July 27, 2019, 11:49 AM   #35
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Do you think the majority of firearms training classes are realistic at all?
Not having taken the majority of firearms training classes, or knowing what they are teaching, today, I probably shouldn't comment, but from what you say, and what else I've heard, I'd think they aren't.

Quote:
Most that I've seen or taken rely on putting 500 rounds downrange each day, running drills engaging multiple targets with 3-5 shots each.
I don't consider something like that to be "firearms training" I consider those to be "combat training" and we have, over the past century+ sent literally millions of men into WAR with far, far less intensive handgun training.

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Have you taken a training class with a revolver?
No, and I'm not going to start now.

Welcome to our modern world, where no one can know anything about anything, and cannot possibly be competent without having a piece of paper (or plastic) stating they have been trained.

Doesn't matter whether the training is useful, relevant, or even correct. Doesn't matter if the instructor is a genius at what they do, or if they are the kind of moron who teaches "if you don't do what I tell you, you're going to die, die DIE!!!!"

Do remember that any "training" which is run for profit, the instructor(s) are SELLING YOU SOMETHING!

Some of them seem to be selling the idea that you must be a competent combat pistolero (which you will be by paying for, and passing their class) in order to possess the basic skills needed to defend yourself with a firearm.

This is not true, but it is good for their business.

I'm in a different place than most people today. I grew up with firearms safety being part of my life. My father was an NRA Hunter Safety instructor. From the time I was about 6, and big enough to carry a gun or a box of papers to the car, until I was 18 and joined the Army, every fall, I was part of every class he gave.

It was a different era, in many ways. There was no range, no firing at all, it was all classroom instruction, in the evenings, given in the lunchroom of the former Borden creamery building that now served as the garage for the town highway department. The NRA provided the written material, my father provided guns from his personal collection for display and examination, and us kids (my brother and I) got to lug the stuff from the house to the car, from the car to the class, sit through the whole thing until it was over, then reverse the process.
SO, I've attended at least half a dozen Hunter Safety Training classes every year for a dozen years. Now add half a century of real world firearms use, mostly hunting and other recreational sporting uses, and I'm afraid I'm just not going to pay someone younger than I am, with less experience than I have (though possibly more extensive in some specialized areas not really relevant to me) to tell me what I "need" to know.

I don't believe I need to be "trained" on how to be a gunfighter, and I'm not paying anyone to do so.

Will I die, die, DIE?? absolutely, eventually. We all do.
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Old July 27, 2019, 06:26 PM   #36
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Firing pin in the hammer in older M64's. Nice stainless 3" piece but I feel better when the hammer is down on an empty cylinder. M64 - 3 .
.02. David.
If it makes you feel better, okay...but you're shorting yourself one round for nothing.

Dump the ammo out of your 64 and close the cylinder.

Dry fire it and hold the trigger fully rearward. Don't let go!

Turn the gun and look between the recoil shield and the back of the cylinder. You'll see the firing pin poking its nose through the frame.

Keep looking and release the trigger. You'll see the hammer retract and the firing pin will disappear. The part you won't see is the hammer block rising into a recess in the face of the hammer, imposing itself between the hammer and the frame.

In this position, you can literally beat on the hammer with a hammer and not fire the gun.

For the thread...not a thing wrong with a good revolver. I carry one my ownself...a 3-inch round butt Model 13. Been carrying it for over 35 years. When I was a younger, more able man, I spent time in the deep woods. For that, I carried a Model 58.

Crawlin' back into hibernation now.

Cheers.
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Old July 27, 2019, 06:40 PM   #37
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Firing pin in the hammer in older M64's. Nice stainless 3" piece but I feel better when the hammer is down on an empty cylinder. M64 - 3 .
.02. David.
You ever open up the side plate? S&W's hammer block safety is elegantly simple and effective.
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Old July 27, 2019, 06:41 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by 1911Tuner View Post
If it makes you feel better, okay...but you're shorting yourself one round for nothing.

Dump the ammo out of your 64 and close the cylinder.

Dry fire it and hold the trigger fully rearward. Don't let go!

Turn the gun and look between the recoil shield and the back of the cylinder. You'll see the firing pin poking its nose through the frame.

Keep looking and release the trigger. You'll see the hammer retract and the firing pin will disappear. The part you won't see is the hammer block rising into a recess in the face of the hammer, imposing itself between the hammer and the frame.

In this position, you can literally beat on the hammer with a hammer and not fire the gun.
That or a transfer bar. Been longer than my lifetime since any double action revolver made didn't have one or the other.

Quote:
I carry one my ownself...a 3-inch round butt Model 13. Been carrying it for over 35 years.
I am envious. Almost had one, 17 or 18 years ago, in trade for something. Alas, it had an expensive problem. But it was otherwise the prefect handgun. I remember picking it up and thinking "I don't need anything else."
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Old July 27, 2019, 10:53 PM   #39
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I have and have carried semi-autos with and without safetys but I always worried about having a ND where I might hurt myself or others. I now have a couple of revolvers I feel are much safer for me as I don't feel I can get a ND with a DA or DAO revolver. They are both J frame size Taurus (5 shot 605 and 6 shot 856). The 605 is DAO with no exposed hammer. I found shooting a revolver in DA is harder to shoot accurately than semi-auto so I bought a SA/DA 22 revolver for practice. I found shooting the 22 in DA has made me a better shot both with revolvers and my semi-autos (It is said if you can shoot DA accurately with a revolver, you can shoot any handgun accurately).
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Old July 28, 2019, 05:25 AM   #40
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This topic came up on another site and LEO pointed out that in all his years he does not recall working crime scenes with someone laying there clutching a empty 5 shot revolver. It's kind of tounge and cheek but sticks in my head when this topic comes up.

Carry what works for you.

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Old July 28, 2019, 04:34 PM   #41
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LOL -- I guess my Colt Walker had a major impact on just how comfortable I feel carrying the hammer down on a loaded cylinder. You few carry anyway you wish.

.02. David.
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Old July 28, 2019, 05:01 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Ben Dover View Post
Most folks don't like them because with only 6 rounds you need to learn how to shoot.
It's not about lernin' how ta choot. It's lernin' how ta reload them dern rotators at speed if'n ya need to. My name ain't Jerry but it starts wit a J.

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Old July 28, 2019, 05:35 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Ben Dover View Post
Most folks don't like them because with only 6 rounds you need to learn how to shoot.
Most people probably realise that in a stressful situation bullets coming your direction that shooting accurately could be a issue, so more rounds without the need to reload could be a advantage.
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Old July 31, 2019, 11:17 AM   #44
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Now that my Son has laid claim to the Para elite commander 1911 that I've been EDC'ing for the past couple of years I'm returning, not unhappily, to the Security-six .357. So I won't be talking you out of carrying a wheel-gun.

I'm perfectly comfortable with six rounds of .357 magnum, or even .38 special, in the gun. If you are too then I don't think there's any reason not to carry a revolver.

By the same token, there's nothing wrong with carrying a high cap autoloader either if that's more amenable to you.

In the end I think it comes down to personal preference.
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Old July 31, 2019, 08:22 PM   #45
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I started with a Sig P938. Carried that for a few months. Never really warmed up to it. Then I didn’t carry anything for a few months. I got a CZ PCR next and enjoyed it on the range but found I never really carried it all that much. I spent the last 8 months carrying it off an on. I never felt physically comfortable carrying it, like it never sat quite right.

Earlier this month a friend talked me into a 686 SSR and I found an enjoyment with revolvers that I wasn’t having with semi autos lately. A Model 60-4 was bought shortly after that. Steel j-frame, 3” barrel, target sights and 38 special. It has taken over the place of the PCR. The 60 fits me better when I carry it, which leads me to carrying it more often.

Yes I have a 9 rounds less with the Mode 60, but honestly I never considered it when choosing. I’d rather have a 5 shot revolver that I carry regularly, than a semi auto sitting at home.

There are fans of both options. What are you more comfortable with? I found I am more comfortable with a steel j-frame with 5 rounds of Hornady 38s.
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Old July 31, 2019, 10:43 PM   #46
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Do I feel under armed with a 5 shot revolver ? No

But .. a Glock 27 with a +1 mag loaded with 180gr HST is my primary carry piece ..

At times I carry a Charter Arms revovler 5 or 6 shot 38spl or one in 44spl ...as primary..

Im a fan of the 40S&W (23 or 27 )or 10mm (29 or 20) both loaded with 180gr projectiles
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Old July 31, 2019, 11:33 PM   #47
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Won't try to talk you out of a revolver. I've carried revolvers and semi-autos, full size and compact. My situation is that I'm no longer working in LE, or living in the big city. I used to carry full size guns on and off duty. For a time, I even carried a 4" S&W .44 concealed to determine if that was practical for me. It wasn't. In my dotage though, more often than not I am comfortable carrying a small, lightweight, S&W 38 Spcl. revolver (5+ nothing capacity) or compact 9MM. I don't have any argument with those who prefer to carry semi-autos that are more powerful and higher capacity, who carry extra magazines, etc. Were my lifestyle and location different, I might very well do the same
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Old August 1, 2019, 07:47 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Dover View Post
Most folks don't like them (sic: revolvers) because with only 6 rounds you need to learn how to shoot.
Quote:
Most people probably realise that in a stressful situation (with) bullets coming your direction,..shooting accurately could be an issue...more rounds, without the need to reload, could be an advantage.
Both statements are correct in my view...Rod (S&W M60 &/or a Sig 365 in use for EDC)
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Old August 3, 2019, 05:15 AM   #49
Mike Irwin
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I've been carrying a gun on and off for over 30 years.

My first choice for a carry gun was a Charter Arms Off Duty .38.

Carried that for quite a few years until I graduated to my current daily carry, an S&W 042 Centennial.

I've always preferred the absolute simplicity of revolvers over semi-autos; not just for carry but for every day shooting.

Over the years I have carried over revolvers and have carried semi-autos, but I've come back to my .38 Snub.

Most of that time I've not even bothered carrying a reload. I have speed loaders and speed strips, but most of the time I have the 5 in the cylinder and that's it. I don't buy the theory that I need 400 spares in case I'm attacked by a wandering tribe of Hottentots.

Recently, though, I've started looking at carrying a polymer 9mm. The current candidate is a Walter CCP that fits my hand like a dream. Had some early issues with it that required a trip back to the factory, and I've not yet finished putting it through its paces on the rebound.
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