Leaving magazines loaded, weaken spring tension???

[JohnKSa]

And yes, I would know if any of my springs has degraded. The auto knife collector community is a relatively small one and I am in contact with many of my customers.

I understand that you would know if they failed to function. That is quite different from being able to prove that none of them have weakened. As I mentioned in an earlier post, all of the magazine springs that I left fully compressed for long periods (by leaving the mags fully loaded) weakened, but so far none of them have weakened enough to affect function.

I have a hard time believing that all of your customers actually quantified the strength of the spring when it was new and then did similar measurements later to verify no strength was lost. In fact, I would have a hard time believing that even one of them did so. That said, if you have the numbers, I would be very interested to see them.

I also think that most of us are actually in agreement, but that our understandings of terminology make it look like we aren't.

We're probably pretty close in terms of practical recommendations, but as long as anyone is going to say that springs don't weaken from being left compressed, that's going to be a problem in terms of full agreement. I can easily do (and have done) the measurements to prove that statement isn't true.

[Bill DeShivs]

John,
Springs may weaken when compressed to their elastic limit, but if not compressed that far, there should be no practical loss. If there were, all of our cars would sit just a little bit lower each day.
As far as my customers-no they don't measure the spring strength, but if the springs were getting noticeably weaker, I'll guarantee they would be bitching at my repair rates!

And, everyone please note: I'm only speaking of high carbon steel springs. Springs made from work-hardened 17PH stainless and other materials are thing I have no knowledge of.

[Walt Sherrill]

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

Springs may weaken when compressed to their elastic limit, but if not compressed that far, there should be no practical loss.

I don't think anyone has ever claimed otherwise. SOME designs do that routinely to make a gun perform as needed. This is true with some hi-cap mags, and some recoil springs in small guns.

On other forums where I participate, some of the shooters use suppressed or silenced handguns. When first using the new barrels or attachments, they find that the gun won't cycle properly -- because the recoil springs are too stout and won't let the gun cycle with the reduced recoil that comes from a suppressed or silenced barrel. For some of these guns (FNX 45s) there are no lighter recoil springs available. What do they do? They leave the gun stored with the slide locked back for a week or two. The recoil spring eventually degrades (weakens) just enough to allow the gun to cycle properly.

In some cases, over-stressing a spring is done by DESIGN -- it's intentional. It's something that many gun buyers know and accept -- doing so gives them (in a few cases) a gun that holds more rounds or functions properly despite a very small size. They just have to change out springs more frequently.

Springs lose their ability to function from more than just cycling -- and leaving a spring compressed to its elastic limit (or beyond) will degrade the spring's material/internal structure. Happily, most spring applications don't do that and when it happens, it mostly happens by design. There are also inferior springs -- poorly designed or made with inferior materials. Some of us have had experience with a brand or two of after-market mags that are made with inferior materials...

Cycling a well-made spring generally won't cause enough wear or degrade enough to make the spring non-functional UNLESS cycling compresses or stretches the spring to or beyond it's elastic limit. For most applications, the SPRING CYCLE never pushes a coil spring that far. That's why valve springs in autos almost never fail -- despite many-million of cycles during the engine's working life. Those valve springs are designed and installed so that they CAN'T be pushed beyond their elastic limits. Long life is important for that spring use/application, and there's no reason to build and install them any other way.

In magazine springs, there will be some loss of function due to long-term cycling, but the magazine will typically still work. (This is what JohnKSa's tests -- which continue -- show us. Those springs may never wear enough that they won't continue to function.

To claim that ONLY CYCLING will degrade a spring is both silly and uninformed -- The springs in JohnKSa's tests aren't being cycled! What, then, is causing the springs to degrade?
,

[DPris]

This is an often-argued subject.

I know (KNOW) it at least used to cause spring weakening in Glock mags several years ago.
Our department armorer would replace shortened mag springs when he found 'em during annual inspections.
He showed me the difference in mine vs new ones when he replaced two on my last inspection.

And I can assure you that those springs did not shorten because of repeated compression.
I didn't shoot my issued Glock unless I had to at qualifiers.
Neither did most of the other guys.


The only failure I ever had in that 17 was a mag-induced failure to feed, and that involved a round jamming inside a mag that had sat fully loaded for a year or three.
Toward the end of my career with that Glock, I defied department policy & carried my mags loaded one less.
I'd heard scuttlebutt about the springs.
Took no chances.

I don't know if Glock springs still do this today, but they definitely did then.
Denis

[Cheapshooter]

This zombie thread from ten and a half years ago pops up again. I'll bet if the OP loaded a couple mags the day they made the first post they would work perfectly today.

[Ibmikey]

Cheapshooter— Ha Ha. You just have to be right!!