March 12, 2009, 11:35 AM | #51 |
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Okay, then how does one go about being able to own and compete with handguns in Oz?
Is it true that the police, as I've heard, monitor competition matches? We visited to consider emigration in 1987, but I perceive that the society has a sort of boss mentality that would affect simple individual freedoms like gun ownership so that thought has been put on hold. At the time my wife wanted a few thousand miles between her and her family as well, but that has changed. It was encouraging to meet the Aussie revolver competitors at the International Revolver Championship in Moro Bay, California, but I am curious as to what they need to go through to be able to compete. My wife is from the Malabar area, her cousin has a sheep station in the Snowy highlands and the photo on my desk was taken on one of the best days of my life--striding across the paddocks in heavy jacket with my Aussie in-laws and the stock dogs moving the sheep just outside the photo.
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March 12, 2009, 06:28 PM | #52 |
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sounds like one step from communism. I cant believe any group of people would stand for this.
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March 13, 2009, 04:22 AM | #53 | ||||
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Handgun competition in Oz...
G'Day Guy,
Quote:
Having passed that, one must be accepted at a 'recognised' pistol club. Except for police, military, large property owners, security guards and a few "dangerous business" (like crocodile keepers, for example) exemptions, no other reason to own & shoot a functioning handgun is acceptable. If one collects handguns, one must apply to the police for a permit to shoot them, usually on a specified date at a specified range location. After a six month 'probation period' with your club, you are permitted to own a handgun. It must be kept in an approved safe and transported only to and from the range, in your home state or with permission and a letter of invitation, to a match in another state. No other transportation is permitted on a target shooting permit. See the various police firearms registry websites here: http://www.ssaa.org.au/newssaa/secur...n/lawindex.htm Quote:
Quote:
There is a very different perception of individual freedom here as compared to the U.S.. I won't credit the conventional wisdom: "Australia began as a convict settlement and never quite got away from the attitude", but certainly the average Aussie accepts/expects more government intervention in his/her life than at least rural/small town Yanks. Perhaps the fact that around 85% of Australians live in or within 100km of a major city has something to do with it. Quote:
Got friends at Jindabyne we stay with. That part of Australia is very much unique - alpine habitat comprises only some 1% of the continent. Australia is an awe-inspiring, diverse, beautiful, amazing place, extremely poorly served by its politicians and political parties. Where isn't? As for camel shooting: If you're gonna sell 'em get with it. They're breeding up so fast in the central N.T. and Western Australia that habitat is being severely degraded. Camels will eat whatever is left after cattle and sheep have quit! A .45/70 with 300 grain JHP at 2,000 fps will drop a camel nicely. As the poster alluded, you gotta catch 'em first. |
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March 13, 2009, 05:43 AM | #54 |
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I am in Canberra, (A.C.T)
Yup, the gun laws stink here too. It all came about in 1996, when some military guy went to Port Arthur in Tasmania, and shot and killed 33 (mostly Asian) tourists, wearing a blonde wig to resemble a bloke they decided to frame, called Martin Bryant. The wig was found floating off the jetty at Port Arthur, but was unfortunately LOST :barf: The whole thing stinks of conspiricy, if you do a google on "Martin Bryant" or "Port Arthur Massacre" you can read all about it. He (Martin Bryant) was actually on closed circuit tv at a gas station 65 Km away from Port Arthur when the shootings occured, (but that got lost too) and the person that did the shooting did all head and neck shots (Kill shots) there were 3 people injured. Martin Bryant had only ever owned a .175 slug (BB) air rifle. He did not have the skill to shoot anyone let alone 33 head and neck shots in a row. Whoever did it was a professional. Bryant proved that when he returned to the property near Port Arthur after being lured there by the police, and funnily enough, there was an AK47 and 250 rounds of ammo in the homestead. He was surrounded by Police and he fired 250 rounds at the police and their vehicles and didnt hit anything..... nothing. So, how could he have shot 33 dead, and only injure 3? Most civillian massacres would be 33 injured, 3 dead.... not the other way round. The purpose of the setup was to initiate the gun buy back in Australia, which has cost the country Millions of dollars, and has had no impact on gun crime (in fact gun crime had quadrupled).... you see, only law abiding citizens handed in their guns, the criminals must have forgotten to.
In England, they also set up a massacre (Dun Blayne) to get their buyback, it cost the poms 80 million POUNDS, and their handgun crime has increased 5 fold and is still increasing. Their criminals must have forgotten to hand theirs in too? Guns in responsible hands are perfectly safe, guns in criminal hands will always be totally unsafe. A shame the sheeple cant distinguish between safe sporting shooters and criminals?! :barf: I posted a thread the other day outlining our gun laws in canberra, you might like to read this too. It is in the general handgun forum, I called it "Handguns Down Under, an insight" from about 2 days ago Muzza
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March 13, 2009, 08:12 AM | #55 |
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G'day, please keep this thread on topic. That is what the Australian gun laws are, and how it is affecting us now. Not who may or may not by responsible for the Port Arthur shootings.
Thank you.
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March 13, 2009, 11:46 AM | #56 |
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Sorry Skull
I just thought, as someone asked about why our laws are as tuff as they are, that some background on how the Aus Govt, organised the PAM to get their useless gun buyback, so the sheeple would accept the fruitless disarming of the responsible citizens, at majour cost to the seeple themselves, and not loose any votes in the process. My apologies, matey, I thought it was relevent and on topic.
cheers, Muzza
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March 13, 2009, 11:56 AM | #57 |
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Guy B
No, the police dont monitor competition matches as such. They ask clubs for attendance sheets to make sure shooters are attending their range and shooting their 6 comps for the year (Primary club) and 4 shoots per year (each other club) The SSAA (governing body) here in Canberra wont hand in the iformation (so I have been told) as they believe it is a privacy issue. Sometimes when putting in for a permit to aquire, the registrar will demand a letter from your clubs stating you are conforming to the legislation, If you cant give them the letters of proof, you loose your guns.
The police arent standing behind you, ready to arrest you if you flinch (fortunately) Actually, they have no right to be on or at the range unless called by someone, as the range belongs to the SSAA and is therefore private property. Muzza
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March 14, 2009, 06:15 AM | #58 | |
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Better check that one again, Muzza....
Quote:
The term,"private property" has little meaning in the ACT, especially as pertains to firearms licences. |
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March 15, 2009, 12:02 AM | #59 |
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Self Defense
Gents,
Since one cannot own a firearm for self defense in Australia I'm interested in opinions on the following: If your house was being burgled and/or you perceived the intruder to be a threat to your life or the life of your family members what would happen if you shot/killed the intruder? Has there been a case like this in Australia? Does the "no firearm for self defense" apply to other weapons such as knives/bows? I'm originally from South Africa (where violent crime is an epidemic) and my mind boggles at the "logic" that prevents a citizen from arming themselves for self defense. Cheers Rath |
March 15, 2009, 12:25 AM | #60 |
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What?? Harm a violent criminal? How uncivilized. What's it getting to in the Colonies?
Seems like we've had threads indicating that hindering criminals is not acceptable with the exception of fisticuffs.
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March 15, 2009, 12:35 AM | #61 |
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G'day. I have heard of cases where intruders have been shot as HD/SD in Aus. From memory the defender has not suffered greatly from prosecution assuming storage and licencing was in order.
HD/SD is not grounds for ownership, but that does not mean you can't use all tools at your disposal.
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March 15, 2009, 12:41 AM | #62 |
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With having to pull the weapon from an approved safe? What sort of safes are required? Easy access or good strategic planning on the part of the firearm owner?
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March 15, 2009, 04:51 AM | #63 |
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Ben, my friend in the U.S. is not a gun owner and has no interest in firearms. He is somewhat troubled by the perception that if you 'look at someone the wrong way' or upset a stranger especially when driving, you're liable to be confronted by a person producing a handgun and maybe using it.
Because of our super-tight handgun rules in Australia that's not a common perception here. Which of course doesn't save you from facing physical violence here especially if you're at a night-spot like a pub or nightclub. Alcohol fuelled violence is becoming ever more prevalent in Oz society. We have a drinking culture here. Other cultural differences are a perceived different work ethic and workplace culture between what my mate views as the Australian attitude and the U.S. one, and the strong social impacts of different racial attitudes and groups. Going into the details, reasons and aspects would just about fill a book. And we suffer from a similar dose of political correctness as you guys so I have to be careful what I say. Our Aboriginals don't have the same sort of presence in the big cities as African Americans. Maybe more like Native Americans perhaps?? Something I find intriguing is how (according to my friend) the residents in the housing estate he lives in are pressured to keep their property neat and tidy according to a set standard. He doesn't live in a high value estate but he better not let his lawn get too long. Not such a bad idea really, given here in West Oz you can just about get away with cultivating a jungle before local councils jump on your case. Your house is regarded as your castle here...until the Government wants the land for some other purpose. It can be compulsorily reclaimed, with compensation paid at a pretty low rate. Doesn't happen often but it does happen. You never really own your plot in Oz! Interestingly, the States seems to have lower standards of housing and workmanship than that allowed here in major cities in West Oz. I don't see that as a bad thing, but housing costs are painfully high over here. This one gave me a bit of a giggle. When my mate moved into the housing estate his family and he were invited to a barbecue. One of the guests asked him what church he went to. He's not a churchgoer and said so. He was looked at askance and the only reply a judgmental "Oh!" Here in Oz we don't give a rats what church you go to or otherwise - except perhaps if it's a mosque. That would tweak some interest. You have to remember the population of Oz is less now than the States had at the time of the Civil War. And the folks who migrated to America in such huge numbers were often financially barren, desperate old-worlders suddenly facing conditions of human conflict with other ethnic groups, Native Americans, cattle barons etc. The U.S. was founded in conflict, the need for firearms absolute. Ours wasn't. Our culture and heirarchy hasn't been shaped by the relatively small convict kickstart so much as the English attitude that came with it. We always went on about egalitarianism here. But there's always been a fairly strong elitist 'us-and-them' culture hiding quietly behind it. And our big conflicts have been mostly fought in other lands. |
March 15, 2009, 12:20 PM | #64 |
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Your friend, Ben, must live in a "good" neighborhood. The areas where it is necessary to be careful about "dissing" others with a look are pretty bad areas. Much of this is gang mentality. If I were living there I would very much want to have firearms protection.
Some ethnic neighborhoods where African Americans, Chinese, Vietnamese, legal Latino residents, East Indians or such fall to that level and some do not. Greatly influenced by economics. In other areas African Americans and other ethnic groups are part of the professionals and even Yuppies where there is a pretty livable culture. Well, actually some of us... A lot of us think Yuppies are insufferable with their materialism and conformity, but they get equal disdain regardless of race or ethnic background. I work in an area with a heavy African American population and a significant portion of Xerox's professional / executive workforce is black. Your friend could come here and feel quite comfortable at the workplace or suburbs. They even have the leftist fear of firearms. I nearly gave one black sales manager a heart attack when I mentioned the web site "Black Man with a Gun". Outside housing projects the local city governments may regulate tidiness to keep up neighborhood image, economic desirability and safety. In most areas of suburban California housing is developed in tracts of homes by a single company. The people who purchase these homes often must accept dictates of a Home Owners Association and they can get downright pi@@y about what color the house can be painted, how often, etc. Rural areas usually are more individualistic. I agree about the Pommey heritage playing a larger part than the convict society. Likewise the fact that the United States came about due to conflict. The former colonies that evolved without conflict into independent (sort of) countries seem to have retained the Brit mindset. That would be other than people like my wife who often makes comments about "Shtupid pommeys" (Aussie pronunciation) and "Worthless royals--ought to dump that lot". The United States was a dumping ground for political dissidents more than convicts (except for Georgia) and that probably makes the difference. Our Bill of Rights (civil rights) come directly as a repudiation of British practices at the time or distrust of control from the top. Firearms ownership protection comes from both.
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March 15, 2009, 03:50 PM | #65 | |
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Quote:
This is not true police have the right to enter any private property! I have seen them there a number of times doing random checks. If you are the only one shooting at the range and your guns are left unattended while your checking your target and they show up they can take at their discretion your fire arms on the spot! If your lucky you’ll get a warning if they take them this then becomes a matter for the court's, 99% of the time you get them back but the hassle and cost is BS. Our club members have been warned about this and the club has provided a steel cabinet that you must put your fire arm into before going forward. |
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March 15, 2009, 05:57 PM | #66 | |||||||
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As one who dwells in both camps, so to speak.....
Hello Foxrr,
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March 15, 2009, 06:07 PM | #67 |
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Re: "Aussies may have gone off to fight for "King and Country", but they went voluntarily!
Always the quarrelsome lot.
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March 15, 2009, 06:49 PM | #68 |
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yep sorry deleted
Last edited by hardhit; March 15, 2009 at 07:57 PM. |
March 15, 2009, 07:48 PM | #69 |
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I think he was carrying in Arizona, USA.
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March 15, 2009, 08:55 PM | #70 | |
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Legally, I might add....
I should have mentioned that I have an Arizona CWP.
Quote:
Guy, you've been to an Aussie pub or two.... |
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March 15, 2009, 09:23 PM | #71 |
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hardhit,
We need shooters alert to things that will affect our image. fallingblock, I've only been to Tattersall's where everyone seemed well mannered and maybe a bit stiff, but my wife is Aussie if nothing and her brother has run a couple of "hotels"--rooms upstairs and pub below. I would very much like to visit Oz again before too many of the interesting in-laws have passed on (and get another kiss from one of your former premier fashion models/buddy of my wife ). If we are to visit again how would I hook up with shooting clubs and get permission to shoot? When my wife's nephew was here I took him to the range and he enjoyed himself and doing it at home might be a kick. How is firearms transportation handled?
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March 15, 2009, 10:03 PM | #72 | |||
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Australia needs more Yanks!
On my way to cover for making that statement
Guy, most Aussie pubs ("hotels" also, due to liquor licencing requirements) are fine places to relax. I couldn't resist the "quarrelsome lot" remark. Quote:
Quote:
The individual state regulations vary. Generally it's much easier to arrange to use a rifle or shotgun than a handgun. In most clubs there are "club guns" of one sort or another available for guest shooters. Depending on the state, one may need to arrange in advance for permission to shoot. Generally speaking, it seems a lot harder to accomplish than it actually is. Quote:
the best thing to do is start reading up at Customs and then email them for clarification: http://www.customs.gov.au/webdata/re...-BFirearms.pdf If you just want to do some shooting locally, getting in touch with a club and arranging for an 'open day' would be an easier option than bringing a firearm with you. It's a great country and the people are generally warm and friendly. The politicians are about what one can expect anywhere.:barf: Last edited by fallingblock; March 15, 2009 at 10:20 PM. Reason: correct structure |
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March 15, 2009, 10:27 PM | #73 | ||
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Quote:
You are allowed a day past but @ $30 dollars honestly it’s a little on the expensive side being a member is the way to go @ $220 per year you can shoot every day if you want to. They shoot shotgun pistol & black powder but there is a few heralds to jump before you become a member. Quote:
If you need go to the police station don’t leave the bolt in the gun, I have herd of people getting reamed by the cops for that. |
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March 16, 2009, 01:23 AM | #74 |
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G'day fellas'
Just to clarify..Ben is a previous poster I was answering, not my mate's name. Can't work out how to get 'quotes' up on my replies. My reply page seems to be missing a button or two. I'll have to message the Mods. The fact I'm not hugely computer lit doesn't help. F/block, I'm with you on your observations. A lot of fellas I know if not drinking at a pub are putting away a few most nights in the 'castle'. For health reasons I can only do a rare rum or two these days. Oz-made Beenleigh rum is the BEST! Aussies have gone off to fight others' wars since early times. It's not our argumentative streak so much as the small-nation-folks' need to prove how tough we are. And we mostly have I suppose. NZ has the same problem in spades. But it hurts. Our losses in the Great War were appalling. Some say it's bl**dy stupid. I'm not so sure. Sometimes is. Your comment about the Navajo kind of proves the point. When the other guy suspects you're carrying, he's much more likely to be wary and mind his manners. Your comments about good manners figures with what my mate says, especially about the kids. Invade Oz, will you? And sort out some of the lousy attitudes and behaviour of quite a lot of our kids if you can. We've been doing something wrong over here. Fairy parenting, and lefty teachers, I'd say. Too many kids' rights, too few obligations. And if you don't feel like invading, just come for a holiday. It ain't no Africa but it isn't half as bad as just about anywhere else in the world. I'm sure you can get it all sorted if you're determined to hunt or shoot paper. No big probs. Advice given so far is excellent. |
March 16, 2009, 07:35 AM | #75 |
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I'm curious. I have read differing reports on the number of firearms that were turned in or registered after the regulation. Some studies have suggested that many Ozzies did not turn in their guns or register them, but just went underground, especially in the outback.
How much truth is there to this? Anybody know for sure? |
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