CVA Bobcat Problem !!! ???

Pahoo · July 16, 2008, 11:14 AM

Last year I purchased a CVA Bobcat to be used for our trainig classes. I chose this model to present a side lock and the weight for the younger shooters. Have used it in three classes and have been having too many "Hang-Fires" and a few "Mis-Fires" Our shot sting is 40grns of 777, lubricate patched round ball and #11 Remington primers. Clean between groups of 6 to 9. Hang-Fires may present a good teaching opertunity but with larger classes, can be a pain in the you know what!!!

Besides chucking it into the pond, any suggestions on what can be done to correct this problem? Have shot side cockers for many years now and have never had a problem come up as often as this. This is the only Bob cat I have ever shot or will shoot. What do you guys think ??

Be Safe !!!

Raider2000 · July 16, 2008, 12:13 PM

DON'T PACK IT TOO TIGHT!!!!

I use 777 FFFG in my Bobcat & I had to learn that one lesson the hard way.

When I load the powder I have the barrel at an angle away from me but the lock side down to try to get some of the powder into the flash chamber because it is kinda small back there, I then will give it a slight tap on the side of the barrel to settle the powder, & then load my PRB to where it just touches the powder with practically no compression.

This has been the most reliable way to keep mine going during the range sessions & it does help to keep the groups pretty consistent too.

sundance44s · July 16, 2008, 12:52 PM

I can only add , be sure and have the hammer at halfcock while loading , this will allow the loose powder to push it`s way into the nippledrum area .Other wise , just the hammer being down on the top of the nipple will restrict the dead air from being pushed out the flash hole while loading . These Subs like 777 are a little harder to light than Goex or other real black powder . It`s not a bad habbit to clear the flash hole with a nipple pick between shots before reloading too . Inlines do provide a more positive ignition straight in ...but side locks loaded with care can be just as positive.

arcticap · July 16, 2008, 01:47 PM

1. Buy a good replacement nipple like this one from Cabela's.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...pple&noImage=0

The Bobcat nipple might be threaded too close to the bottom of the drum. This interferes with getting a strong enough flame to reach the powder through the narrow flame channel.
So a better nipple should throw more flame.

2. Use the smaller fffg or P powder granulation so the powder can travel down into the flash channel & drum easier and closer to the ignition flame.

3. Clean out the flash channel, drum and nipple as much as possible after each shooting session. It can be tricky if you don't use the pump & flush water method of cleaning, and even then you still need to stick something in there to clean out any build up of residue which narrows the channel.
I use solvents and twist a cotton swab in one direction only to not have the cotton tip get pulled or broken off. A small nylon flash channel brush, doubled over pipe cleaner (they're tough to use too if any material falls off), or a thin wire like object used with a twisting motion to get down to the bottom of the channel through the cleanout screw opening and to scrap the sides.
Soak the nipple and use a nipple pick or needle to clean it out, and look to see daylight through it afterward.

4. I've never heard of Bobcat ignition problems persisting after buying a better nipple. But if the problem did continue, I would consider drilling out the bottom of the old nipple and possibly shortening the nipple fractionally to create more room at the bottom of the drum for the ignition flame to travel.
A nipple with a long stem can be shimmed upward very slightly to have a similar effect, but you need to be careful that the nipple has enough threading to not blow out, especially with students shooting it.
That's why simply drilling out the bottom of the nipple out might be another option to try if the ignition doesn't improve with a better nipple.

5. BTW, you might be able to buy a musket cap or 209 primer nipple to fit the Bobcat, but using those primers can be more expensive too.

hillbille · July 16, 2008, 07:31 PM

buy a musket nipple, it is a simple screw in change, then get a box of musket caps, they are easier to put on and take off and offer a little hotter fire. I had the same problems with a cva panther, about the same gun as the bobcat, after the nipple replacement haven't had any trouble with hangups, or misfires. around here the nipples are the same price, musket or cap, only thing is musket caps are a little more expensive only by a dollar or two though. good luck.

Pahoo · July 17, 2008, 10:06 AM

Great replies and information and certainly want to thank Y'all.
Will try all, starting with a new replacement nipple as it still has it's original, installed. Looks like the Bobcats and other CVA's, are prone to this problem.
Again, ... Thanks !!!!

Be Safe !!!

armedandsafe · July 17, 2008, 12:48 PM

If you drillout the nipple, be careful not to drill all the way through. I've found that just giving the bottom opening a bit of a flare helps more than enlarging the entire hole. Think "countersink." Something about nozzeling effect I learned from designing rockets over 50 years ago.

Pops

Pahoo · July 17, 2008, 12:58 PM

armedandsafe

Excellent Idea and I have experience with Process Control Orifice plates and that is exactly how these are machined, with the taper on the downstream side. I'm still going to replace the original nipple and take it from there. I understand that I am treating the effect and not the cause as this is the first sidelock that has given me this problem. Great imput!!

Be Safe !!!

ELMOUSMC · July 17, 2008, 01:51 PM

Pahoo I had a similar problem with a CVA Hawken and it turned out that my method of cleaning was the problem.I used a bucket of hot soapy water and after removing the Nipple I used the tried and true pump and scrub to remove fouling after drying I replaced the nipple lubed the barrel and put the rifle away.After a time I noticed that I was getting hang fires.I removed the clean out screw and found that there was a moderate amount of carbon build up caused by lime from the boiling water used to dry the barrel ,the lubricant and the residue from the primers.This build up was causing the flame from the primer to defuse and cause the hangfires check your Bobcat it only takes a very small amout to cause a problem ELMOUSMC

July 17, 2008, 12:48 PM	#7
armedandsafe Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2005 Location: Moses Lake WA Posts: 1,001	If you drillout the nipple, be careful not to drill all the way through. I've found that just giving the bottom opening a bit of a flare helps more than enlarging the entire hole. Think "countersink." Something about nozzeling effect I learned from designing rockets over 50 years ago. Pops __________________ Armed and Safe: Not just a theory If it time to bury them, it is time to dig them up. Remember, "Behind every blade of grass."

July 17, 2008, 01:51 PM	#9
ELMOUSMC Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2007 Location: N.E.IOWA Posts: 384	Pahoo I had a similar problem with a CVA Hawken and it turned out that my method of cleaning was the problem.I used a bucket of hot soapy water and after removing the Nipple I used the tried and true pump and scrub to remove fouling after drying I replaced the nipple lubed the barrel and put the rifle away.After a time I noticed that I was getting hang fires.I removed the clean out screw and found that there was a moderate amount of carbon build up caused by lime from the boiling water used to dry the barrel ,the lubricant and the residue from the primers.This build up was causing the flame from the primer to defuse and cause the hangfires check your Bobcat it only takes a very small amout to cause a problem ELMOUSMC __________________ USMC 1965-1992 For God,Country,Corps

July 16, 2008, 11:14 AM	#1
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	CVA Bobcat Problem !!! ??? Last year I purchased a CVA Bobcat to be used for our trainig classes. I chose this model to present a side lock and the weight for the younger shooters. Have used it in three classes and have been having too many "Hang-Fires" and a few "Mis-Fires" Our shot sting is 40grns of 777, lubricate patched round ball and #11 Remington primers. Clean between groups of 6 to 9. Hang-Fires may present a good teaching opertunity but with larger classes, can be a pain in the you know what!!! Besides chucking it into the pond, any suggestions on what can be done to correct this problem? Have shot side cockers for many years now and have never had a problem come up as often as this. This is the only Bob cat I have ever shot or will shoot. What do you guys think ?? Be Safe !!!

July 16, 2008, 12:13 PM	#2
Raider2000 Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 719	DON'T PACK IT TOO TIGHT!!!! I use 777 FFFG in my Bobcat & I had to learn that one lesson the hard way. When I load the powder I have the barrel at an angle away from me but the lock side down to try to get some of the powder into the flash chamber because it is kinda small back there, I then will give it a slight tap on the side of the barrel to settle the powder, & then load my PRB to where it just touches the powder with practically no compression. This has been the most reliable way to keep mine going during the range sessions & it does help to keep the groups pretty consistent too.

July 16, 2008, 12:52 PM	#3
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	I can only add , be sure and have the hammer at halfcock while loading , this will allow the loose powder to push it`s way into the nippledrum area .Other wise , just the hammer being down on the top of the nipple will restrict the dead air from being pushed out the flash hole while loading . These Subs like 777 are a little harder to light than Goex or other real black powder . It`s not a bad habbit to clear the flash hole with a nipple pick between shots before reloading too . Inlines do provide a more positive ignition straight in ...but side locks loaded with care can be just as positive.

July 16, 2008, 01:47 PM	#4
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	1. Buy a good replacement nipple like this one from Cabela's. http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...pple&noImage=0 The Bobcat nipple might be threaded too close to the bottom of the drum. This interferes with getting a strong enough flame to reach the powder through the narrow flame channel. So a better nipple should throw more flame. 2. Use the smaller fffg or P powder granulation so the powder can travel down into the flash channel & drum easier and closer to the ignition flame. 3. Clean out the flash channel, drum and nipple as much as possible after each shooting session. It can be tricky if you don't use the pump & flush water method of cleaning, and even then you still need to stick something in there to clean out any build up of residue which narrows the channel. I use solvents and twist a cotton swab in one direction only to not have the cotton tip get pulled or broken off. A small nylon flash channel brush, doubled over pipe cleaner (they're tough to use too if any material falls off), or a thin wire like object used with a twisting motion to get down to the bottom of the channel through the cleanout screw opening and to scrap the sides. Soak the nipple and use a nipple pick or needle to clean it out, and look to see daylight through it afterward. 4. I've never heard of Bobcat ignition problems persisting after buying a better nipple. But if the problem did continue, I would consider drilling out the bottom of the old nipple and possibly shortening the nipple fractionally to create more room at the bottom of the drum for the ignition flame to travel. A nipple with a long stem can be shimmed upward very slightly to have a similar effect, but you need to be careful that the nipple has enough threading to not blow out, especially with students shooting it. That's why simply drilling out the bottom of the nipple out might be another option to try if the ignition doesn't improve with a better nipple. 5. BTW, you might be able to buy a musket cap or 209 primer nipple to fit the Bobcat, but using those primers can be more expensive too.

July 16, 2008, 07:31 PM	#5
hillbille Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2008 Location: west virginia born 1/19/1961 Posts: 222	buy a musket nipple, it is a simple screw in change, then get a box of musket caps, they are easier to put on and take off and offer a little hotter fire. I had the same problems with a cva panther, about the same gun as the bobcat, after the nipple replacement haven't had any trouble with hangups, or misfires. around here the nipples are the same price, musket or cap, only thing is musket caps are a little more expensive only by a dollar or two though. good luck.

July 17, 2008, 10:06 AM	#6
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Great replies and information and certainly want to thank Y'all. Will try all, starting with a new replacement nipple as it still has it's original, installed. Looks like the Bobcats and other CVA's, are prone to this problem. Again, ... Thanks !!!! Be Safe !!!

July 17, 2008, 12:58 PM	#8
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	armedandsafe Excellent Idea and I have experience with Process Control Orifice plates and that is exactly how these are machined, with the taper on the downstream side. I'm still going to replace the original nipple and take it from there. I understand that I am treating the effect and not the cause as this is the first sidelock that has given me this problem. Great imput!! Be Safe !!!