The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights > Legal and Political

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 27, 2006, 02:51 PM   #1
Ilovemyak47
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 24, 2006
Posts: 90
Should this be cause for concern?

It makes me wonder what would happen if a local newspaper/tv station just went around asking for what these people were asking for...


http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_033170755.html

should it be a right to just be able to waltz in and politely ask? Do you think your local precints would pass or fail such a test? Or are those reporters just being spoons trying to stir up some ***?
Ilovemyak47 is offline  
Old February 27, 2006, 03:35 PM   #2
garand_shooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2006
Location: The Keystone State
Posts: 149
No, I wouldn't necessarily be concerned. If I really had a problem with an officer, I would follow whatever procedure the particular department used. I think it would be nice if there was a 'standardized' form to fill out, because I think some people are intimidated and afraid to talk about problems with officers to other policeman. Some people may fear retribution. I personally wouldn't, but I also think my chances of needing to file a complaint against an officer lie somewhere between slim and none.

At one point the 'tester' wants to be able to go straight to Internal Affairs, and I don't know if that is possible or realistic. I think their involvement would be based on the severity of the complaint. If an officer calls you a dumbass during a traffic stop, will IA get involved? Would it go above the Sergeant, or other responsible individual? Maybe some of the resident LEOs can weigh in on IA getting involved.

I think in a way they were trying to set these guys up. It's obvious they have an agenda. It seemed as though they wanted to portray the possibility of retribution. And again, if the alleged infraction isn't going to make it to IA, who's to say the Sergeant isn't going to tip off the officer anyway. You can't register an anonymous complaint, because then there would be no way to properly investigate the claim. Then who do you give the benefit of the doubt to? I would give it to the officer, until such time as so many complaints had been registered against one officer, that a pattern could be seen. You can't inundate IA with nonsense, for that would hinder investigating serious claims. Some of the officers seemed ticked, but I'm not certain it was anything more than just being annoyed at having their time wasted.
garand_shooter is offline  
Old February 27, 2006, 03:55 PM   #3
Twycross
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2005
Location: Montana
Posts: 1,187
In some of the reports, the officers did act like bungholes. But in many others, the department didn't use a system based on forms, or didn't allow the complainer to go directly to IA. And IMHO, that perfectly fine, and the inclusion of those instances corrupted the report. Is there anything saying that all police departments must use anonymous forms which are filled out by the complainer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by garand_shooter
I think in a way they were trying to set these guys up. It's obvious they have an agenda. It seemed as though they wanted to portray the possibility of retribution.
+1.
__________________
The test of character is not 'hanging in' when you expect light at the end of the tunnel, but performance of duty, and persistence of example when you know no light is coming.
- Vice Admiral James Stockdale, USN (ret.)
Twycross is offline  
Old February 27, 2006, 04:50 PM   #4
Redworm
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2005
Posts: 3,372
Well the guy didn't demand to speak to IA, he simply asked if there was a way to do so. Not everyone knows exactly what Internal Affairs does or how they operate nor does every department have the same procedure. In fact I remember being able to contact someone from the Atlanta PD Internal Affairs in regards to a research project I did in high school. Of course he was operating in a public relations capacity but he was still an IA investigator who I got a direct a number to.

There's no law that requires police departments to have official complaint forms but it's a very good idea nonetheless. Most people are not like you guys; most people are intimidated by police officers and even if retribution is highly unlikely there is a very strong, and in some cases justified, sitgma of a police "brotherhood" that protects its' own regardless of guilt or innocence.

Granted the majority of the police departments shown had officers which simply said "no, we don't have a form". They weren't rude or abusive and the news report specifically mentioned that. Whatever agenda they had is inconsequential to the fact that at least four of those departments had officers which responded rudely and, in that first incident, with gross abuse of his authority. Regardless of how "annoyed" the officers were their time was not "wasted". A citizen wanting to know how a complaint is filed without having one to file is not a waste of time; that citizen may fear that his neighbor the cop is a dangerous element in his neighborhood and may have to report him in the future. It doesn't matter what reason the citizen has to ask those questions as they are very valid questions.

What happened to the latter portion of "protect and serve"?

I have much respect for the police but there are bad eggs in every single walk of life; law enforcement is not devoid of people who abuse authority and make unwise choices.
Redworm is offline  
Old February 27, 2006, 05:14 PM   #5
Capt. Charlie
Staff
 
Join Date: March 24, 2005
Location: Steubenville, OH
Posts: 4,419
Quote:
There's no law that requires police departments to have official complaint forms but it's a very good idea nonetheless.
Yes, it is. Internal Affairs is usually feared and despised as "head hunters" by cops, and there are some that fit that picture, but what LEO's fail to realize is that an IA investigation that returns a finding of unfounded or exonerated from a complaint, has been removed from the cloud of suspicion that may follow that officer for years, and have a substantial negative impact on his career, and even on his life.

If a department has a good Internal Affairs Division, an IA investigator can be an honest cop's best friend.
__________________
TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you?

I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do.

--Capt. Charlie
Capt. Charlie is offline  
Old February 27, 2006, 06:15 PM   #6
garand_shooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2006
Location: The Keystone State
Posts: 149
Quote:
Regardless of how "annoyed" the officers were their time was not "wasted".
You're absolutely right Redworm, and I wasn't trying to justify the attitude or rudeness, and didn't mean to imply that I thought it was a waste of their time. I just didn't think there was some dark, sinister, fraternal reason behind their actions, and didn't express it clearly.
garand_shooter is offline  
Old February 27, 2006, 11:28 PM   #7
Redworm
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2005
Posts: 3,372
Quote:
I just didn't think there was some dark, sinister, fraternal reason behind their actions, and didn't express it clearly.
I misunderstood. I agree that the piece did make it seem like those officers were part of some massive conspiracy and the reporter should've pointed out that the five rude officers were not representative of their entire departments. On the other hand the fact that five officers did act in that manner is something that warrants consideration on whether or not they deserve to wear those badges.

I understand that people have bad days; maybe the first guy had just finished dealing with a really rude guy who had come in yelling because his kid was pulled over for speeding. Maybe the second guy has been hassled multiple times by some gang member's family for nothing more than doing his job. But reasons are not the same as excuses and while I certainly don't feel that those officers should be fired I do believe their actions need to be brought up and corrected so that future citizens do not feel harshly intimidated by the police when trying to file a complaint.
Redworm is offline  
Old February 28, 2006, 08:27 PM   #8
Rob P.
Junior member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2005
Posts: 467
The results of this "test" are disturbing to say the least. I'm wondering why the "tester" was required to give his ID? Why the 20 questions routine? Why did the one officer threaten to cite someone OTHER THAN the "tester"?

I agree that this should not be representative of our police forces. However, the fact that some strange events did happen disturbs me to the point where I wonder if, in fact, this IS representative of our law enforcement community.

One thing I do know; Each time something like this happens, one more person joins the ranks of the police bashers. Perhaps the police ought to think about that.
Rob P. is offline  
Old February 28, 2006, 09:41 PM   #9
Eghad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 28, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,231
Man..why all the hostility. I field complaints about issues sometimes. I make sure that whoever comes in has access to file a complaint. I have had some filed againt me after I have given them the info on where to file a complaint. I have been contacted by the office doing the investigation, made my reply and forwarded the requested documents and the complaints have been declared unfounded 100% of the time.

I hate to say it but stuff like that gives folks a bad idea about people. Sometimes a bad impression creates a false sense of impropriety that might be unfounded.

I would rather have an independent investigator tell the person that his complaint is unfounded than giving the person a hard time about filing a complaint. That way you get a rep as a straight shooter...
__________________
Have a nice day at the range

NRA Life Member
Eghad is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2017 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.07398 seconds with 10 queries