A Great Class in the Law of Self Defense

[Frank Ettin]

Attorney Andrew Branca, author of The Law of Self Defense, is travelling around the country putting on an outstanding one day class: The Law of Self Defense -- Level 1 Class.

I took the class last Sunday. It was a great class, well worth the time and money, and pretty much a "must take" for anyone who carries or keeps a gun for self defense. The class as given in a State will address the use-of-force laws of that State, as well as the general legal principles of use-of-force law. Lawyers taking this class might also be able to get CLE credit.

A general outline of the class and its organization may be found at the link I provided above. One thing I found especially useful is the way Mr. Branca broke down and described the five elements of justification for the use of force against another person: Innocence; Imminence; Proportionality; Avoidance: and Reasonableness. There was extensive discussion of what these mean and how they apply in real life terms in different situations. And if any one of these is absent, the legal claim of self defense fails.

Students also had the option of signing up for some simulator training after the class was done. We each had a chance to face one scenario (armed with a laser gun) and solve the problem presented. Some warranted an immediate and decisive, lethal response. Some absolutely did not. And some really didn't have any clear solution. After each scenario the participant was debriefed and the situation and resolution analyzed.

One feature of the exercise is especially worth noting here. Upon completion of the scenario the student was asked to turn his back to the screen. He/she was then asked a variety of questions about what he/she saw. Everyone got one or more things wrong -- an excellent lesson in how stress can affect perception and memory.

Mr. Branca has practiced law for some 25 years and focused on self defense sind 1998. He's a knowledgeable and engaging speaker, and I both thoroughly enjoyed my time in his class and learned some things. In fact, I've already signed up for his Level 2 class.

There are few ways for a private citizen to learn this material, and for those of us who have guns for our protection and the protection of our families, a solid understanding of use-of-force law can be vital to our futures.

[tangolima]

I have his book and listened to his podcast (he is no longer doing that). The best!

-TL

[FITASC]

Won't be coming to my state or region unfortunately. We do, however, have an excellent attorney in Florida, Joh H. Gutmacher, who has a book called "Florida Firearms, Laws, Use, and Ownership" that covers everything from licensing through the aspects mentioned above. He also covers using your gun in AL, GA, NC, and SC. For those in the "Gunshine State", it is a must-have, whether you carry or just have a gun at home for protection.

http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/

The ninth edition is the latest; he updates it about every two years.

[stonewall50]

Seems awesome.


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[stonewall50]

Originally Posted by FITASC

Won't be coming to my state or region unfortunately. We do, however, have an excellent attorney in Florida, Joh H. Gutmacher, who has a book called "Florida Firearms, Laws, Use, and Ownership" that covers everything from licensing through the aspects mentioned above. He also covers using your gun in AL, GA, NC, and SC. For those in the "Gunshine State", it is a must-have, whether you carry or just have a gun at home for protection.

http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/

The ninth edition is the latest; he updates it about every two years.

Thanks man. I'm looking for more training myself. I keep up on Florida self defense law as a hobby and for myself as CCW. Friends and I often quiz each other about "what if" scenarios and will debate legal decisions out of curiosity. We also discuss the best course of action for our own safety both legally and financially (because sometimes you may feel you MUST do something...you must realistically understand that your actions have consequences and if you aren't a cop...you really have no business getting involved beyond observe and report).


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[Don P]

Thanks man. I'm looking for more training myself. I keep up on Florida self defense law as a hobby and for myself as CCW

You can look into a MAG-20 or MAG-40 class. The MAG-40 will be held in Live Oak FL. in October. Excellent class and well worth the money.
http://massadayoobgroup.com/

[Johannes_Paulsen]

Frank - since you're an attorney, I'm curious about your thoughts on this. What's the utility of taking a class with Mr. Branca if he's not licensed to practice law in your state?

I'm not asking to be snarky here, just genuinely curious: does he have a local attorney there to fill in the gaps? Or is this just a broad survey course for the layperson?

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by Johannes_Paulsen

....What's the utility of taking a class with Mr. Branca if he's not licensed to practice law in your state? ....

It really doesn't make a difference since he's not going to be representing you in your home State. Lawyers have to deal with the laws of different States (and federal law) all the time. Often in dealing with a client's problems I needed to know the law of Texas, or Illinois, or Georgia, or some other State on a particular issue; and I did what lawyers do all the time: go to the library (or, in later years sign on to Westlaw or Lexis on-line).

Or it might be that a California court hasn't dealt with an issue that's material to my client's situation. In those cases I'll look to see if a court in another State has and how. Decision from other States won't be precedent, but they might be persuasive (or adverse -- a problem I need to know about).

So law is not as insular as some non-lawyers might think. Any decent lawyer has the core knowledge and skills (analytical and research) to deal with all kinds of legal matters and the laws of multiple States. And the matters we deal with for our clients can involve issues spanning various areas of law in several different States.

Where local counsel become especially important, beyond the mere fact that in general one can't practice law in a State unless licensed in that State, is litigation. It can be very helpful to be represented by someone experienced in the particular court who is familiar with the judges, the administrative personnel, and the local administrative rules.

[Johannes_Paulsen]

Hi Frank,

It really doesn't make a difference since he's not going to be representing you in your home State.... what lawyers do all the time: go to the library (or, in later years sign on to Westlaw or Lexis on-line).

Wait...are you really saying: don't worry that he's never practiced criminal law in your state, he looked it up on Westlaw? Look, if we're talking about a situation where I go to prison if I get it wrong, I'd prefer to hear the opinion of someone who's actually practiced in that field and in my state....

Going back to my original question, it sounds like this class is along the lines of, say, Mas Ayoob's MAG40 - a broad survey for laypeople with no prior knowledge of the law. For the record: I've nothing against Branca, and there's nothing wrong with that; I'm just trying to get a sense of the scope of this class.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by Johannes_Paulsen

Wait...are you really saying: don't worry that he's never practiced criminal law in your state, he looked it up on Westlaw? Look, if we're talking about a situation where I go to prison if I get it wrong, I'd prefer to hear the opinion of someone who's actually practiced in that field and in my state....

Basically, yes. Andrew Branca is an experienced criminal defense lawyer who has focused his practice on self defense for the last 20 or so years. He probably understands the law of self defense in pretty much every State he's done the research on better than an experienced criminal defense attorney in that State who's had a few self defense cases. As for "looking it up on Westlaw", that's also what the local lawyer and local judge do too.

In fact, doing the research is one of the things that distinguishes law professionals from laypersons. Lawyers (and judges) are always looking things up and framing their arguments based on what they see. None of us have all this stuff memorized. And all of us understand comprehensive research.

One of the most common reasons laypeople will get this stuff wrong is that they don't do the research, Instead they rely on assumptions and defective analogies.

Originally Posted by Johannes_Paulsen

...it sounds like this class is along the lines of, say, Mas Ayoob's MAG40 - a broad survey for laypeople with no prior knowledge of the law....

Not really, and I've taken both. Branca's class is more focused on law.

In fact, his classes are recognized by various State Bars as qualifying for continuing legal education credit for lawyers taking them. There were a couple of lawyers in my class (there are usually a few lawyers in Mas' class as well, but we don't get continuing education credit for his classes).

Branca's Level I class covers basic principles of use-of-force law with reference to the ways those principles have been applied in the statutes and case law of the State in which he'd giving the class. So, for a few example,

• He looks at California case law on the defendant's burden of production of evidence when a defendant is claiming self defense.
  
  
• He discusses California case law precluding the defendant from getting a self defense jury instruction when the defendant has claimed his shooting was an accident (in contrast, New York allows inconsistent defense theories).
  
  
• He spent a fair amount of time looking at how California statutes and case law address the problems of mutual combat and how an aggressor can regain a right of self defense (and how California law distinguishes a "provoker" who can not regain a right of self defense).
  
  
• He goes into the fact under California case law there is no duty to retreat. But he discusses how California courts have allowed prosecutors to argue that under the conditions of the incident which is the subject of the trial it was unreasonable for the defendant to not try to retreat instead of resorting to force.

As he described it, his Level II class will then look in greater depth at the significant cases. I've already signed up for his Level II class.

[Sodbuster]

Good stuff, as Uncle Bill Martino would say. Thanks for posting this, Frank. I appreciate the time and effort all the mods put in here. Never post much, but I read all I can on this forum.