beginner O/U

shokkazulu · February 5, 2013, 03:57 PM

A couple weeks ago my house was broken into and I had about 5k$ worth of guns and ammo stolen. My sigg 556 was stolen and with current prices replacing it would eat a lot of my insurance replacement money. Ok, to the point, I have always wanted an O/U for very light clay shooting ( 2 or 3 times a year) and was thinking a Browning would a good replacement for the 556. I would like to stay in 700 to 1,300$ range. What model would be go to look into. I might as well buy new as the money wil be insurance replacement. The 1k range would be the best as a I have a gsg5, a sig 229 , p2000sk to replace as well a few others. Any input would be great.

Thanks

Maxb49 · February 5, 2013, 04:29 PM

Brownings are good guns. If you want a Browning, get a Browning.
However, and I'm sure many will disagree with me here, I think you would be better served by a Beretta. The tend to handle a little nicer. Of course, that's just my personal opinion. Guns feel different to different people. Your best course of action is to handle a lot of different guns and see what feels best for you. Feel and handling are far more important than name brand if you want to be a successful clay shooter.

BigJimP · February 5, 2013, 06:07 PM

Browning and Beretta both give you a lot of gun for the money ...but if a Browning "Fits" you - then the Beretta probably will not. Fit means - it hits where you look ( your eye is the rear sight / so the amount of drop at comb, at heel, length of pull, etc are all critical issues for "Fit").

Personally I like the Citori line much better than anything Beretta makes ...and in your price range, you're probably looking at a used Browning Lightning model between $1,000 - $ 1,250 as their entry level field grade guns...

Its my opinion that the barrel to receiver connection on the Citori is stronger than the Beretta ....and on entry level field grade O/U's I think the resale value is better on the Browning Citori as well. Browing also makes the Cynergy line of O/U's - and they tend to fit more like the Berettas. They are solid guns as well.

shokkazulu · February 5, 2013, 08:07 PM

Thanks for the help any input helps out a lot.

thanks

BigJimP · February 6, 2013, 01:49 PM

In my area ....a couple of the local trap and skeet clubs were using Mossberg and Verona O/U's as rental guns...but they had so many issues with them ( triggers, ejectors breaking, ribs coming off, etc....) that they sold them to a local used gun dealer...and he's trying to sell them for about $300 ...and while you can buy a brand new one for under $ 600...they'll probably sell those guns to someone who doesn't know better....

Both of the clubs that are renting shotguns in my area....have not gone to Browning Lightning series guns ...older models ...used with 250,000 shells or more thru them probably ....but they've had no issues with those guns...

Citori Lightning....list is $ 1,989 but in my area you can buy them new for about $ 1,700 or so ---- and used ones, if you can find one, are around $1,250....

http://www.browning.com/products/cat...id=013&tid=461

but I was in a buddies used gun shop yesterday - and he didn't have a single Lightning model in stock / and Browning is slow, shipping new guns right now for some reason ??
-----------
I'm not a Beretta fan ....but I think their White Onyx is their entry level field gun...probably selling new for around the same price as the Citori Lightning ..although typically, I think the Beretta is less money.

http://www.berettausa.com/products/686-white-onyx/

shokkazulu · February 6, 2013, 04:58 PM

I was in one of the local gun shops today an asked about browning O/U and was given a quote of right around 1,400$ for a new Citori Lightning in a 28inch barrel with fixed chokes. From what i can see that may not be a bad deal.

BigJimP · February 6, 2013, 05:05 PM

No, ---- $ 1,400 for a fixed choke gun -- is way too much, in my opinion / and I don't care if it is a virtually unfired gun in a box ...which I don't believe....

Browning first made the Invector screw in chokes in the early 1980's ...( the current system of Invector Plus screw in chokes started in about 1989 )....so if its a fixed choke gun it was probably made in the 70's ( which doesn't matter) ...its still a solid gun.

But the fixed chokes ...doesn't make it very versatile. I'm saying the older style, Invector screw in chokes in used guns is about $ 1,250 ..../ but a fixed choke gun, in my opinion is only worth about $ 750 ..../ it'll cost you close to $ 500 to have someone thread the barrel for chokes ( that knows what they're doing )....like Briley in Texas....

Hold out for a gun that has screw in chokes in it..../ You can buy a brand new Citori lightning for around $ 1,700 ..) why pay $ 1,400 for a fixed choke gun ...???

BigD_in_FL · February 6, 2013, 05:39 PM

I am not aware of ANY new Brownings that comes with fixed chokes - their field guns all have choke tubes

BigJimP · February 6, 2013, 05:46 PM

There is no way - that is a new gun ....!!

I think you can still order a fixed choke shotgun thru the Browning Custom Shop ...for a superposed...but you're well over $5K at that point...

zippy13 · February 6, 2013, 06:32 PM

Are you sure it didn't just have flush screw-in chokes instead of the obvious extended ones?

BigJimP · February 6, 2013, 06:50 PM

Now there is a thought ( and a lot of gun shops have no idea what they're selling ) .....unfortunately !!

BigD_in_FL · February 6, 2013, 07:25 PM

Most likely, as it is priced like a field gun would be and they typically come with flush chokes

good catch Zippy

SauerGrapes · February 6, 2013, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Are you sure it didn't just have flush screw-in chokes instead of the obvious extended ones?

That was my first thought. I don't think anyone makes a fixed choke shotgun today.

BigD_in_FL · February 6, 2013, 08:36 PM

Actually, most of the really high-end guns come with fixed chokes as their guns are intended for a specific use and chokes accordingly. Whether it is a Perazzi for pigeons, an AyA for upland birds, or a H&H for pheasant, these come standard with fixed chokes. Most folks buying these will have other guns for other uses, typically chokes for that other use.

shokkazulu · February 6, 2013, 09:19 PM

I could have miss heard him but about the fixed choke. He was looking in the Browning dealer catalog..I'm sure he said it was a Citori lightning 28 inch barrel with a fixed full choke. But for 300 more the screw in would be worth it.

wizrd · February 6, 2013, 10:46 PM

For the amount of times your planning on using it, I would try to take a look at the Veronas -- I bought one several years ago, shoot trap every week thru the summer. No problems. A couple guys at my club were both Master gunsmiths who worked at a Perrazi shop locally checked it out when I first got it & told me that it looked really well made & would probably be good for the rest of my life - or 200 - 300 k rounds. Save you quite a few bucks, too.

BigJimP · February 7, 2013, 12:06 PM

There is no way - that your local shop found a lightning in the Browning catalog with a fixed choke ...you're mistaken.

Browning doesn't have models with fixed chokes for less...and then charge more for guns with screw in chokes.
------------

shokkazulu · February 7, 2013, 05:10 PM

It was great outdoors in IN. Maybe he was just trying to get me out of the store because I told him I was just price shopping.

BigJimP · February 7, 2013, 05:16 PM

I have no idea / no input on the store....

But you can look at the Browning catalog online...it'll give you all the info you need on the entire line of Citori Shotguns ...and their list prices / now whether your local dealer will sell you something $ 200 - $ 300 below list, I have no idea. In my area, its common for prices to be about $200 - $300 below list on Browning Citori's.

http://www.browning.com/

SauerGrapes · February 8, 2013, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Actually, most of the really high-end guns come with fixed chokes as their guns are intended for a specific use and chokes accordingly. Whether it is a Perazzi for pigeons, an AyA for upland birds, or a H&H for pheasant, these come standard with fixed chokes. Most folks buying these will have other guns for other uses, typically chokes for that other use.

I really wasn't considering the modern high end hunting guns. You don't generally walk into a gun shop and buy those ''of the rack''.
Having multiple shotguns for special purposes was always the norm before screw chokes. I have four different shotguns for various bird hunting.

the rifleer · February 8, 2013, 11:51 PM

If you aren't going to shoot much, get a CZ. They are well in your price range, very nice, and work great. As long as you don't plan to shoot a couple hundred rounds a day with it, it will be everything you are asking for.

shokkazulu · February 9, 2013, 12:53 PM

Will the CZ, berrtas retain value in the long term? I am hung up on the browning because from what I can tell they hold their value well. I know, I know just go buy it and be done, but I like to hear what others thinks are good options. I feel hear I can get the best advise because I'm not buying from this thread.

BigD_in_FL · February 9, 2013, 01:08 PM

The Beretta will hold its value like the Browning, the CZ - not so much

Look at both of the B guns and get the one that fits YOU

BigJimP · February 9, 2013, 03:53 PM

Yes, both the Beretta's and Browning Citori's will hold their value long term ....and might even appreciate in value over the long run if you take care of them because most every year both Beretta and Browning take a fairly significant price increase.

I mentioned before the Citori Lightning model I purchased - new in a box, in 1988 for about $ 750 ...even with 100,000 shells thru it now, 25 yrs later...and having gone thru 2 boys, some grandkids etc...its still easily worth $ 1,250 today on the used market. New the Lighting model today sells new for around $ 1,750 ...(list today is $ 1,989 )...
-----------
Outside of the B guns ( in the less expensive categories) ...nothing will hold its value very well...( except maybe an SKB, if you can find one ) but Remington, Mossberg, Verona, CZ, Ruger etc will all depreciate significantly over time and use...
-----------
The upper end gun - a quality jump above both Beretta and Browning - are Perazzi, Blazer, Kolar and Krieghoff...and they will all appreicate as well...but you're up in the $ 6,000 mimimum price range on all 4 of those guns...and they will go well up over $25K...
------------
Beretta and Browning will give you - by far - the most gun for your money / long Term...

February 5, 2013, 03:57 PM	#1
shokkazulu Member Join Date: February 15, 2006 Posts: 81	beginner O/U A couple weeks ago my house was broken into and I had about 5k$ worth of guns and ammo stolen. My sigg 556 was stolen and with current prices replacing it would eat a lot of my insurance replacement money. Ok, to the point, I have always wanted an O/U for very light clay shooting ( 2 or 3 times a year) and was thinking a Browning would a good replacement for the 556. I would like to stay in 700 to 1,300$ range. What model would be go to look into. I might as well buy new as the money wil be insurance replacement. The 1k range would be the best as a I have a gsg5, a sig 229 , p2000sk to replace as well a few others. Any input would be great. Thanks

February 6, 2013, 05:05 PM	#7
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	No, ---- $ 1,400 for a fixed choke gun -- is way too much, in my opinion / and I don't care if it is a virtually unfired gun in a box ...which I don't believe.... Browning first made the Invector screw in chokes in the early 1980's ...( the current system of Invector Plus screw in chokes started in about 1989 )....so if its a fixed choke gun it was probably made in the 70's ( which doesn't matter) ...its still a solid gun. But the fixed chokes ...doesn't make it very versatile. I'm saying the older style, Invector screw in chokes in used guns is about $ 1,250 ..../ but a fixed choke gun, in my opinion is only worth about $ 750 ..../ it'll cost you close to $ 500 to have someone thread the barrel for chokes ( that knows what they're doing )....like Briley in Texas.... Hold out for a gun that has screw in chokes in it..../ You can buy a brand new Citori lightning for around $ 1,700 ..) why pay $ 1,400 for a fixed choke gun ...??? Last edited by BigJimP; February 6, 2013 at 05:47 PM.

February 6, 2013, 10:46 PM	#16
wizrd Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2012 Posts: 232	For the amount of times your planning on using it, I would try to take a look at the Veronas -- I bought one several years ago, shoot trap every week thru the summer. No problems. A couple guys at my club were both Master gunsmiths who worked at a Perrazi shop locally checked it out when I first got it & told me that it looked really well made & would probably be good for the rest of my life - or 200 - 300 k rounds. Save you quite a few bucks, too. __________________ Sumo magis ammo

February 8, 2013, 11:51 PM	#21
the rifleer Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2008 Location: Sunny California Posts: 1,281	If you aren't going to shoot much, get a CZ. They are well in your price range, very nice, and work great. As long as you don't plan to shoot a couple hundred rounds a day with it, it will be everything you are asking for. __________________ There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people.

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February 5, 2013, 04:29 PM	#2
Maxb49 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2007 Location: Jamestown, New York Posts: 256	Brownings are good guns. If you want a Browning, get a Browning. However, and I'm sure many will disagree with me here, I think you would be better served by a Beretta. The tend to handle a little nicer. Of course, that's just my personal opinion. Guns feel different to different people. Your best course of action is to handle a lot of different guns and see what feels best for you. Feel and handling are far more important than name brand if you want to be a successful clay shooter.

February 5, 2013, 06:07 PM	#3
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Browning and Beretta both give you a lot of gun for the money ...but if a Browning "Fits" you - then the Beretta probably will not. Fit means - it hits where you look ( your eye is the rear sight / so the amount of drop at comb, at heel, length of pull, etc are all critical issues for "Fit"). Personally I like the Citori line much better than anything Beretta makes ...and in your price range, you're probably looking at a used Browning Lightning model between $1,000 - $ 1,250 as their entry level field grade guns... Its my opinion that the barrel to receiver connection on the Citori is stronger than the Beretta ....and on entry level field grade O/U's I think the resale value is better on the Browning Citori as well. Browing also makes the Cynergy line of O/U's - and they tend to fit more like the Berettas. They are solid guns as well.

February 5, 2013, 08:07 PM	#4
shokkazulu Member Join Date: February 15, 2006 Posts: 81	Thanks for the help any input helps out a lot. thanks

February 6, 2013, 01:49 PM	#5
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	In my area ....a couple of the local trap and skeet clubs were using Mossberg and Verona O/U's as rental guns...but they had so many issues with them ( triggers, ejectors breaking, ribs coming off, etc....) that they sold them to a local used gun dealer...and he's trying to sell them for about $300 ...and while you can buy a brand new one for under $ 600...they'll probably sell those guns to someone who doesn't know better.... Both of the clubs that are renting shotguns in my area....have not gone to Browning Lightning series guns ...older models ...used with 250,000 shells or more thru them probably ....but they've had no issues with those guns... Citori Lightning....list is $ 1,989 but in my area you can buy them new for about $ 1,700 or so ---- and used ones, if you can find one, are around $1,250.... http://www.browning.com/products/cat...id=013&tid=461 but I was in a buddies used gun shop yesterday - and he didn't have a single Lightning model in stock / and Browning is slow, shipping new guns right now for some reason ?? ----------- I'm not a Beretta fan ....but I think their White Onyx is their entry level field gun...probably selling new for around the same price as the Citori Lightning ..although typically, I think the Beretta is less money. http://www.berettausa.com/products/686-white-onyx/

February 6, 2013, 04:58 PM	#6
shokkazulu Member Join Date: February 15, 2006 Posts: 81	I was in one of the local gun shops today an asked about browning O/U and was given a quote of right around 1,400$ for a new Citori Lightning in a 28inch barrel with fixed chokes. From what i can see that may not be a bad deal.

February 6, 2013, 05:39 PM	#8
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	I am not aware of ANY new Brownings that comes with fixed chokes - their field guns all have choke tubes

February 6, 2013, 05:46 PM	#9
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	There is no way - that is a new gun ....!! I think you can still order a fixed choke shotgun thru the Browning Custom Shop ...for a superposed...but you're well over $5K at that point...

February 6, 2013, 06:32 PM	#10
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Are you sure it didn't just have flush screw-in chokes instead of the obvious extended ones?

February 6, 2013, 06:50 PM	#11
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Now there is a thought ( and a lot of gun shops have no idea what they're selling ) .....unfortunately !!

February 6, 2013, 07:25 PM	#12
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	Most likely, as it is priced like a field gun would be and they typically come with flush chokes good catch Zippy

February 6, 2013, 08:36 PM	#14
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	Actually, most of the really high-end guns come with fixed chokes as their guns are intended for a specific use and chokes accordingly. Whether it is a Perazzi for pigeons, an AyA for upland birds, or a H&H for pheasant, these come standard with fixed chokes. Most folks buying these will have other guns for other uses, typically chokes for that other use.

February 6, 2013, 09:19 PM	#15
shokkazulu Member Join Date: February 15, 2006 Posts: 81	I could have miss heard him but about the fixed choke. He was looking in the Browning dealer catalog..I'm sure he said it was a Citori lightning 28 inch barrel with a fixed full choke. But for 300 more the screw in would be worth it.

February 7, 2013, 12:06 PM	#17
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	There is no way - that your local shop found a lightning in the Browning catalog with a fixed choke ...you're mistaken. Browning doesn't have models with fixed chokes for less...and then charge more for guns with screw in chokes. ------------

February 7, 2013, 05:10 PM	#18
shokkazulu Member Join Date: February 15, 2006 Posts: 81	It was great outdoors in IN. Maybe he was just trying to get me out of the store because I told him I was just price shopping.

February 7, 2013, 05:16 PM	#19
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I have no idea / no input on the store.... But you can look at the Browning catalog online...it'll give you all the info you need on the entire line of Citori Shotguns ...and their list prices / now whether your local dealer will sell you something $ 200 - $ 300 below list, I have no idea. In my area, its common for prices to be about $200 - $300 below list on Browning Citori's. http://www.browning.com/

February 9, 2013, 12:53 PM	#22
shokkazulu Member Join Date: February 15, 2006 Posts: 81	Will the CZ, berrtas retain value in the long term? I am hung up on the browning because from what I can tell they hold their value well. I know, I know just go buy it and be done, but I like to hear what others thinks are good options. I feel hear I can get the best advise because I'm not buying from this thread.

February 9, 2013, 01:08 PM	#23
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	The Beretta will hold its value like the Browning, the CZ - not so much Look at both of the B guns and get the one that fits YOU

February 9, 2013, 03:53 PM	#24
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Yes, both the Beretta's and Browning Citori's will hold their value long term ....and might even appreciate in value over the long run if you take care of them because most every year both Beretta and Browning take a fairly significant price increase. I mentioned before the Citori Lightning model I purchased - new in a box, in 1988 for about $ 750 ...even with 100,000 shells thru it now, 25 yrs later...and having gone thru 2 boys, some grandkids etc...its still easily worth $ 1,250 today on the used market. New the Lighting model today sells new for around $ 1,750 ...(list today is $ 1,989 )... ----------- Outside of the B guns ( in the less expensive categories) ...nothing will hold its value very well...( except maybe an SKB, if you can find one ) but Remington, Mossberg, Verona, CZ, Ruger etc will all depreciate significantly over time and use... ----------- The upper end gun - a quality jump above both Beretta and Browning - are Perazzi, Blazer, Kolar and Krieghoff...and they will all appreicate as well...but you're up in the $ 6,000 mimimum price range on all 4 of those guns...and they will go well up over $25K... ------------ Beretta and Browning will give you - by far - the most gun for your money / long Term...