Robbery caught on tape.. real sawed off scattergun

[Deaf Smith]

Now this guy had a REAL sawed off shotgun.

But notice how he handles it. I feel there were many opportunities to either draw on him or take it away from him H2H.

http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=12590134

Watch the 37 second version. No commercials or anything.

Deaf

[Double Naught Spy]

Wouldn't an opportunity to draw on him depend on having a gun to draw? I mean, sure all us ninja store clerks could do it, sure, but what about those of us without guns?

[cpallen]

Could it be the clerk knows the robber? It all looks too casual to my untrained eye.

[Mr. Davis]

Either the clerk was on horse tranquilizers or was in on the robbery.

• While outside, he walks towards the masked man with a gun, actually brushing past him to go in the door.
• He never puts his hands up, which is an instinctive reaction in every robbery video I've seen.
• He turns his back to the robber on numerous occasions, never really looking back over his shoulder
• He casually empties the register then stands there with his hand on his hip, slouching, as the robber walks away.

[45Gunner]

When I was in college, I worked part-time for a finance company. One Friday we were robbed by a guy with came in wearing a motorcycle helmet and brandished a .357magnum revolver. There were 5 employees in the store, no customers. Not one of us instinctively held their hands up. As I was physically the biggest person, the robber put the gun to me and told everyone else to lie down on the floor and not to hit any alarm buttons.

Everyone was extremely calm. No panic. No fear. The objective was to give the robber what he wanted and just let him leave. Screw the money...it was insured.

Dumb thing tho.....I walked the robber over to one of two cash draws and let him empty it. We had two draws, one with maybe a couple of hundred dollars and the second, which was kept locked, had several thousand in it. After the BG emptied the first cash draw, one of the clerks lying on the floor told the robber there was another cash draw.

She was never investigated as being part of the robbery. She said she was afraid the robber would become enraged at only finding a couple of hundred dollars and thought that might save me, or all of us from being shot.

The investigating detectives said we all did the right thing. The rest of the afternoon the detectives marched suspects into the finance company for us to identify, but due to the fact that he wore a full face helmet, we could not even begin to guess what he looked like....only how tall he was, and what he was wearing.

[Deaf Smith]

You guys notice he carried the gun by the receiver part of the time and not with his hand on the grip? Hard to fire the gun that way..

Bit of a post script...


http://www.kltv.com/global/story.asp?s=12595893

UPDATE 04:15 PM 06/04/10 - Longview Police Detectives have made an arrest in the June 3rd robbery of the EZ Mart convenience store at 1501 Pine Tree Road.

Joshua Todd Murray, 20, of Longview, was arrested early Thursday afternoon pursuant to an arrest warrant issued by Judge David Brabham of the 188th District Court.

As of this time, Murray has not been charged with the second EZ Mart robbery at the same location that occurred on June 4th, but additional charges are likely.

Murray's birthday is in five days, June 9th.

***

And if the shotgun IS a real one and IS sawed off, that's a Federal Crime! And we can say, "happy birthday" to him in jail for years to come!

Deaf

[Hook686]

Do you really want to make a move on a guy holding a sawed off shotgun on you ?

[BamaBowtie]

With the way he was holding it, I would make a grab for it. He didn't seem to have a secure grip on it. I'm sure as hell not gonna just stand there. I look at armed robbery like this, if someone has a gun pointed at you there is a 100% chance of you being shot. Do you want to be shot while cooperating or while trying to defend yourself?

[Rich Miranda]

I might be wrong but the robber's demeanor and body language tells me that he doesn't want to do harm, he just wants the money. I see no reason to fight or draw on him if he already has the drop on you.

[Electric Head]

To me it looks well executed, for a robbery. I agree with Rich Miranda - he looked like he just wanted money, not to hurt anyone. To that end either the employee was in on it OR he may well have been smart enough to use being calm to his advantage and not try and scare the bejeezus out of the employee which could lead to them just freezing up or not being able to do things quickly. Also people take less notice of other people being calm and "normal" but anyone nearby would certainly have noticed if he was charging around waving his gun around and yelling.

[booker_t]

This was discussed in another thread.. the majority of the time a robber/mugger has a gun not because they're going to shoot somebody, they have it for control. It's a symbol of power, and immediately sets up a new social structure during the robbery.

In this case, the clerk (who appears to be an older man) saw the shotgun. Immediately he gives up control, because he has to. Walks inside, gives up the cash and some smokes, and everyone walks away in the same number of pieces they were in 3 minutes prior. Smooth transaction. As the clerk, if he never actually felt threatened, why would he draw a gun (if he had one) to defend a few bucks of store money that's insured anyway?

I doubt this old man was "in on it" for $100 or whatever they keep in the register. Most gas stations/convenience stores have safes that they drop cash into, whenever they receive a 100 or a 50, or when the register has more than five or ten 20s.

[Deaf Smith]

The question is not what the old man would do... it's what YOU would do. What opportunities YOU saw to end the robbery.

We don't have a crystal ball to know of the robber intends on herding us into the back room to kill, or make us lie down on the floor (and maybe kill.)

The thing is, WE DON'T KNOW.

You may decide to do nothing.

You may decide you will only resist if dire things happen like they make you lie down on the foor.

You may decide that if a GOOD opportunity presents itself for you to fight back, then you will.

And if you decide on that course, then you need to be able to spot openings and be able to move fast and skillful enough to exploit that opening.

And that is the whole point of this thread!

Deaf

[Kmar40]

Screw the money...it was insured.

Actually the cash likely wasn't insured. You generally cannot insure it. (Of course, there are exceptions with those Lloyd's of London type insurers.)

But they can sell a bunch more slurpees and cigarettes and make the money again fairly quickly.

[radshop]

Everybody's missing the obvious here -- look at the resemblance of the news anchor to the perpetrator. Solved!

It's easy to armchair quarterback what the clerk should have done, but keep in mind that the average convenience store clerk probably doesn't have outstanding tactical training and skills (stereotyping - but still true). The difference in size, strength, and athleticism between the perp and the clerk appears pretty significant, so I wouldn't be quick to say that the guy should have gone for the gun at all. Glad it turned out reasonably well under the circumstances.

[dec41971]

BamaBowtie wrote:

With the way he was holding it, I would make a grab for it. He didn't seem to have a secure grip on it. I'm sure as hell not gonna just stand there. I look at armed robbery like this, if someone has a gun pointed at you there is a 100% chance of you being shot. Do you want to be shot while cooperating or while trying to defend yourself?

ever been robbed? I have twice infact. Easy to say, and fact is you just don't know how you would react until it happens. Its an almost surreal thing. A lot depends on what the perp does. He and he alone is in control of what goes down, including if or not he meets resistance. Trying to make a grab for it just increases your chances of being shot. And it is a shortgun right? Good luck surviving that.

[BamaBowtie]

Actually, no. I was the victim of an ATTEMPTED home invasion when I was 16. I was home alone while my parents went to pick up dinner when two older drunk guys started going through my step-dad's tools under the carport. We didn't have a phone yet as we had only lived there a few days. I was in the living room and one of them saw me get off the couch. The larger of the two immediatly started to kick the door, instinct took over and I grabbed my compound bow that was laying in the corner. I drew back on one of the big Muzzy broad heads and pointed it right through the door. They both started cussing and running like hell. The neighbor saw it and thankfully was on the phone with the cops the whole time. So, yeah I have a bit of an idea what I would do faced with that situation. As a side note, I have been armed in some capacity from that day on.

[dec41971]

Is it me or does it appear that Florida got a bucket load of crime? All these stories coming from there make it seem so.

[ISC]

It's hilarious to hear people say how they would have jumped the robber from behind the safety of their keyboard.

[Deaf Smith]

Some actually do stop criminals with guns. Even in stores.

http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/

Clayton Cramer has alot of them!

Deaf