COLT vs H&K

[Wildalaska]

That what parts count has to do with it. You trash a Gas piston as "just annother part to break" Forgetting the AR has MANY more parts to break...

That makes no sense...we are comparing DI ARs to Piston ARs...what do AKs have to do with it.

Everyone knows that AKs are gods gift to third world robustness, whopee-do. When our GI's are allowed to use their rifles as stools in front of the fire after a hard day of pangaing women and children, then we can switch to AKs

WildhowdidaksgetinvolvedhereAlaska ™

[IZZY]

your post did not specify such a parameters.

If that is truely what you meant, it has some merit.
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The origional post was actualy about HK MR556 Vs. a Colt AR...that then degraded to a direct vs. piston action...

and then your post came about how a gas psiton is just another part to break...yada yada yada..

post drift

My Ak bullies your Honor student AK

[Wildalaska]

and then your post came about how a gas psiton is just another part to break.

it is...in an AR

WilddriftinglikebrownianmotionAlaska TM

[kraigwy]

My Ak bullies your Honor student AK

I was at a live fire FTX, with pop up shoot back targets, my competitiors were using AKs, I was using an AR, I'm here chatting, they arnt'

[Chui]

Bah! Direct Impingement was a bad idea from the get go. Yes, you get less mass but that's about it. Well, the rcoil impulse is slightly less than a gas piston design.

For a COMBAT RIFLE gas-piston is the de rigeur all around the world. Yet, the ergos of the AR-15 is second to none. MATE THE TWO AND YOU HAVE A BETTER RIFLE/CARBINE. End of story.

Playing with statistics can be very misleading and the "1.1% more reliable" claim is an example of same.

Adding a short stroke or long stroke piston to an AR-15/M16 and the result is... an M16/AR15 but with a gas piston.

Whether or not HK does a better job at engineering than Colt is another matter. I think in many areas they do. It's ze German vay, nein? Yet in other areas maybe not. They are more thorough and perhaps THE most thorough of all small arms manufacturers today. This tends to make one very stubborn and resistant to change - an area where we tend to shine a bit more.

This argument is like arguing about my favorite car manufacturer - Porsche. The GT3 is the "perfect" car FOR ME but.... as an auto engineer and race car engineer enthusiast there's no way in Hell given a clean sheet of paper I'd hang the engine behind the rear axles. And neither, apparently, would Porsche. Witness the Boxter/Caiman and Carrera GT.

Progress never stops. Get over it.

[lipadj46]

You know I understand blind stubborn adherence to a design, I myself think the M14 is the cat's ass, but I think if the AR guys take off the fanboy hats for second they have to see that the next long term battle rifle (if it is a gas gun) will almost certainly have a piston instead of DI that is just the way things are headed. Will it be the H&K? Probably not. I myself like the SCAR but Colt will come out with something and we will see who wins the game that is the selection process for a fatty thing like that whenever the military gets the gum-shin.

[IZZY]

Quote:
My Ak bullies your Honor student AK
I was at a live fire FTX, with pop up shoot back targets, my competitiors were using AKs, I was using an AR, I'm here chatting, they arnt'

Probly because:

A) you are a better shot

B) the conditions were not what we are discussing, that is insainly "adverse" (this would show up any differances)

C) The scoring method ( this is just a guess) but do all Center mass hits count the same?

D) the Ak was NEVER intended to be a target/D.M. rifle. That was left to the Druganov.

[Kmar40]

I was at a live fire FTX, with pop up shoot back targets, my competitiors were using AKs, I was using an AR, I'm here chatting, they arnt'
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

Yeah, just because you have real world experience doesn't mean we should accept it if in conflict with the wisdom of internet commandos and Call of Duty Rangers.

We should also not accept the reality of the conflicts in Iraq and Astan, where the enemy essential hides and uses roadside IEDs because actually firing on our guys with their magnificient AK and AKS rifles results in rapid death for the insurgents.

[Kmar40]

C) The scoring method ( this is just a guess) but do all Center mass hits count the same?

He's talking about combat.

[Kmar40]

Delta force indeed

I know..Operators......can't be a operator without an HK

HK or it's High Point clone. Where are those mall ninjas? Or maybe it's a High Point for trainee operators and HK for the real ones. I forget what Gecko45 carried.

PS I carry HK at work. I'd trade it for several pistols that cost half as much in a heartbeat. Our were recalled shortly after we got them. We also have USCs. Also being phased out. No advantage over our M4s. We also purchased a ton of those HK Ar mags. They are training only now. Please don't tell me about HK being perfect.

[Kmar40]

4 MOA is combat acceptable for normal combat ranges, but it certainly isn't very good.

I don't think it's acceptable. It's the difference between making a headshot with an AR or missing with an HK. The ability to make these headshots, along with our other technological advantages such as Night Vision, is the primary advantage we have over the enemy currently. We should give that up because some of the cooks, bakers, and candlestickmakers can't remember to clean and lube their weapon every week or so.

And frankly, we won't. Beoyotch all you want but the M16 has already served as the standard issue rifle longer than the M1 and M14 combined (approximately 30 years). It's not going anywhere until something substantially better comes along. 1% increased reliability isn't substantial. Moreover accuracy is not even a tradeoff that many of us want to make.

And, according to Brig. Gen. Brown, the Army’s looking for “leap ahead” / next-generation (a.k.a. next-gen) infantry small arms technology for a replacement weapon, not just minor, incremental improvements/capabilities like the HK 416, FN MK16 SCAR-Light, and HK XM8.

Yeah, what he said.