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Old December 27, 2010, 01:56 PM   #1
maillemaker
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Weighing bullets?

I know that the usual way of doing things is to weigh every 5th charge or so when reloading, and to use a loading block so you can inspect your cases for a no or double-charge.

However, I am using a progressive reloader.

I suppose what I can do is every 5th round, don't seat a bullet, and just let that round come out with no bullet and dump it's charge into my scale pan and verify the weight of charge.

But can I also weigh finished bullets? It would seem to me that if you had a no-charge or empty-charge that it would show up in the weight of finished bullets, too?
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Old December 27, 2010, 02:26 PM   #2
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I reload only pistol and have been doing this for over 50 years and have never checked every 5th round. I used to check the weight from my volumetric powder measure every 50 rounds. However, since I have been using a Lee Classic Turret Press I don't even bother with this. I use the charge bar gadget and this throws consistently accurate loads.
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Old December 27, 2010, 02:29 PM   #3
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Jeeeze!! Weighing every Fifth Powder charge?

I weigh one on my progressive every 100 rounds or so. I never really have had any unexpected results.

If I'm weighing a charge on my progressive, I just pull the detent pin and pull it out of the machine. Additionally, I just LOOK at each case before I put a bullet into the mouth to see if the charge looks reasonable.

If you have equipment that requires a check every fifth round, it's time to buy new stuff.

Also, weighing loaded rounds is insane for progressive loaded ammo. If you're doing that, you might as well hand weigh all the components and assemble them on a single stage.
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Old December 27, 2010, 02:29 PM   #4
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I'm with Sid and demigod,

I don't know where you got the idea that the "usual way" is to weigh every fifth round's charge. Some folks weigh every charge and others trust their metering device -- it all depends on the degree of uniformity you're trying to maintain. IMHO, if your loading standard is to verify the powder charge of every fifth round, then a progressive is the wrong loader choice. I load with a progressive and check my charge at the best every 100 rounds (when I re-feed the primer tube).

Your proposal of not seating the bullet of every fifth round (and then dumping to the scale) is more feasible than weighing the finished rounds. Typically the mass of the case and bullet greatly exceed the powder charge and their variations make a powder check based on total weight suspect.

With the bullets, if concerned, weigh and sort them before you start loading -- the same may be applied to the cases.
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Old December 27, 2010, 02:38 PM   #5
maillemaker
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Sorry, I'm new at this. I thought I remembered reading in my reloading book "The ABCs of Reloading" to weigh every 5th charge. I will have to go look.
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Old December 27, 2010, 02:49 PM   #6
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Where in "The ABCs of Reloading", did they refer to loaded rounds (cartridges), as "bullets"?
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Old December 27, 2010, 02:59 PM   #7
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I weigh every charge indivigually and single stage press. Don't take that long,plus i enjoy reloading any how. Now priming,,:barf::barf::barf:
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Old December 27, 2010, 03:00 PM   #8
maillemaker
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Quote:
Where in "The ABCs of Reloading", did they refer to loaded rounds (cartridges), as "bullets"?
I'm sure this was my mistake, not theirs.

Steve
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Old December 27, 2010, 08:15 PM   #9
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Don't take this the wrong way, but I bet you're still relatively new and haven't made more than a few hundred rounds on the progressive?

I'm with the others when loading progressive, I do a spot check every 100 rounds or so. What I do is at set-up, I run 6-8 dumps through the powder station, then check to verify the charge is correct, and run. If I stop production but leave the powder hopper on, when I return I repeat the 6-8 throws, check the charge weight and run.

Even when I load match ammo for my AR-15, I check every 20th or 25th charge to make sure it's on. With a powder that meters nicely through your measure, you shouldn't see any drift. I refuse to believe that +/- .1gr on even a 25.0gr load is going to impact my group size appreciably. (FWIW, the SD on that load was 30-fps and drops to 10 when the outlier of the string is removed.) For reference, in a .223-sized cartridge .1-gr is worth 6-10-fps of velocity; it's less in bigger rounds.
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Old December 27, 2010, 10:29 PM   #10
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p-990--For reference, in a .223-sized cartridge .1-gr is worth 6-10-fps .


Very true,but that is the max spread you want.Mine all run,ok well 99% run with in 10 to 15 fps. This is a very desiarable thing. So in answer to your question, you don't want more of a spread than that,as it will make a difference at 400,500 and so on yards.
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Old December 27, 2010, 10:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
But can I also weigh finished bullets?
No, there's too much variations in weight between cases (even for same headstamp pistol cases). Also, most bullets will vary 1-3 gr and up to 5+ gr.

If you want to verify powder charge weight, you must weigh the powder alone.
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Old December 27, 2010, 10:42 PM   #12
maillemaker
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Quote:
If you want to verify powder charge weight, you must weigh the powder alone.
Well darn. I was hoping that I could take a batch of finished cartridges, run them through a scale, and that any "bad apples" would stick out like a sore thumb.

Quote:
Don't take this the wrong way, but I bet you're still relatively new and haven't made more than a few hundred rounds on the progressive?

I'm with the others when loading progressive, I do a spot check every 100 rounds or so. What I do is at set-up, I run 6-8 dumps through the powder station, then check to verify the charge is correct, and run. If I stop production but leave the powder hopper on, when I return I repeat the 6-8 throws, check the charge weight and run.
No problem! In fact, I have yet to run a single cartridge through my progressive. In fact, I've yet to reload a single cartridge through anything!

Here is why I thought I had to check so rigorously:

From The ABC's of Reloading, 8th edition, page 120:

Using a Powder Measure
The precision of mechanical powder measures depends to a great degree on consistency of pulling and returning the operating handle. After a powder measure is adjusted, check its accuracy, and yours, by dropping every fifth load into the scale pan for weighing.


The Lyman Reloading Handbook suggests weighing every 10th load when using a powder measure, after confirming you can get 20 consistent weights dropped in a row.

It seems the general consensus is this probably is not necessary. I will probably do it every fifth cartridge until I make a few hundred rounds and am confident that it is working right, then reduce maybe to once every 50 or less.
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Old December 27, 2010, 10:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Very true,but that is the max spread you want.Mine all run,ok well 99% run with in 10 to 15 fps. This is a very desiarable thing. So in answer to your question, you don't want more of a spread than that,as it will make a difference at 400,500 and so on yards.
Perhaps, but Service Rifles aren't noted for single-digit SDs. And I can say I have shot 97-99% scores from 600 yards with thrown charges from my AR-15 (but most days I'll run closer to a 94% average). I'm thinking Highpower and a 2-minute 10-ring. That's not a hard accuracy standard to load for. Anything in the 9-ring is induced behind the buttplate...

Sorry though, we have drifted from the OP's question. He doesn't need to check every 5th round loaded on a progressive.
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Old December 27, 2010, 10:49 PM   #14
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It seems the general consensus is this probably is not necessary. I will probably do it every fifth cartridge until I make a few hundred rounds and am confident that it is working right, then reduce maybe to once every 50 or less

Good for you. I weigh each and every load. You are doing what works best for you.Quanity is not the issue,quality is and you are attacking it the best way. I have reloaded over 15,000 rounds now and i still do it one at a time.
I know in my head a progressive would be faster,but i like reloading and one at a time works for me just fine. This is strange to all you progressive loaders,but i can still turn out 100 loads per hour,i know you guys can do 300 or more per hour.BUT,,, I never said i was smart,just an old guy with patiance
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Old December 28, 2010, 09:43 AM   #15
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No, there's too much variations in weight between cases (even for same headstamp pistol cases). Also, most bullets will vary 1-3 gr and up to 5+ gr.

If you want to verify powder charge weight, you must weigh the powder alone.
I agree. You'll drive yourself into the mad house weighing individual cartridges.
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Old December 28, 2010, 04:06 PM   #16
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I guess I'm bound for the madhouse.

We only have one projectile for our AR 10s. The Sierra Matchking 175s.
We trim meplats, point and sort. Typically I seem to find only three weights with a semi-rare odd one. 174.9, 175 and 175.1. The odd one always seems to be 175.2. Spread allowance is 2/10ths. Meplat trimming comes close to equalizing projectile weights, and pointing makes a real difference at 400 yards and out to 1,000.

The trimmer indexes on the projectile's ogive, not the base. Once the brass is sized and trimmed we sort it by weight as well allowing no more that a two tenths spread. Out of 100 we'll typically have 6 different weight categories. Surprisingly, both Lapua and LR are neck and neck for consistency for us. All of our LRs are headstamped '04, the most sought after of the Lake City LRs.



After reloading we also sort loaded cartridges by overall weight allowing no more than a three tenths spread. All sorts of sorts, but results are extremely consistent and I make the time to do it.
Our private range is a 500 yard maximum.


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Old December 28, 2010, 07:53 PM   #17
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I have several Dillons set up for various calibers (308, 223, 45 ACP, 9mm) and I don't ever tear them down or change settings. Once I set up a press, I measure every 5th round for the first 50 rounds, then if I don't see any change (usually don't) then I may check the 50th round for the next 500 or 1000 rounds, then I might check once every 500 rounds. I can't remember the last time anything changed. That's the real advantage of a progressive, lots of ammo in a short time. I'm not trying to load for 1/2 MOA since most of this goes in my plinking guns or machine guns. I quit match shooting a long time ago when I discovered that over the past 60+ years my guns became much more acccurate than I was,
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Old December 29, 2010, 09:49 AM   #18
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I guess I'm bound for the madhouse.
If you're making ammo that good, then I don't question that. But If you're running progressive bulk ammo, you'll go nuts second guessing if the weight variance is bullet? Brass? Powder??
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Old December 29, 2010, 10:03 AM   #19
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For serious target work with my rifle I weigh each charge.
For all other I use my powder dumper and visually inspect each charged case before moving on to the seating stage. I don't weigh bullets for my modern guns.
For muzzle loading competition I weigh each round ball I have cast with a .1 gr. variation allowance.
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