please help. filler screws for holes in s&w model 41

mellow_c · June 26, 2018, 03:36 PM

I might have a chance to buy a nice s&w model 41 (.22lr semi auto).

The pistol is in great shape for its age except that it had two large holes drilled in to the top of the barrel so that a scope mount could be installed.

I would prefer to shoot it with iron sights, and the drilled holes really detract from the collectability and the and the asthetics in my opinion.

If i were able to fill the holes with some screws that don't stick out, like what you find on top of most 10-22's and many other rifles and pistols... Then i would feel like the modification would be tolerable in that it still would remain a useful option and less of an eye sore.

I wouldn't know the first place to look for something like that though. Could i find something like that somewhere, or is it something that would have to be made by modifying a longer screw? Id have to figure out what the threads are before anything i suppose.

Whether or not I buy this pistol might depend on if i think this can be achieved without too much trouble so I'm turning to the experts here for opinions.

I'd attach a couple pictures but they are too big of files and im not real good with figuring out that sort of stuff.

Thanks!

**Unclenick** · June 26, 2018, 04:00 PM

Most gun screws like that have finer threads than standard and are sometimes the less common #5 wire diameter. You see 4-48 and 5-40 or 5-44 and 6-40 instead of the common 4-40 and 6-32.

About the only way I know to check is to try running screws of these different sizes into the holes. Most thread gauges won't fit inside and are, instead, meant to measure male threads on screws. If you can't get the male screws to gauge, any gunsmith is likely to have some screws to try and may have a kit of plug screws like the one Brownell's sells.

**4V50 Gary** · June 26, 2018, 04:17 PM

Find screws that fit. File as close to the barrel as possible. Then slowly peen them over. Express Blue or old fashion rust blue (sweat box).

RC20 · June 26, 2018, 05:54 PM

I don't think you want to be making a Model 41 barrel to peen a screw over.

Brownells should have tiny slot screws for that purpose once you establish the size.

10-96 · June 26, 2018, 06:48 PM

Get the 41 if it's in a price you can live with. Then, do as Unclenick said, try some screws, find one that fits, take it to a hardware store to find out the exact size and thread pitch. Then take a peek here... https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...rews/index.htm

It may be a bit of leg work, but in the end, the proper screw will look a whole lot better.

mellow_c · June 26, 2018, 07:26 PM

I think this will work. I edited the pictures by cropping them so they are showing much less but the file size is smaller

Here are pictures of one of the screw holes and one of the screws holding the sight base in place. Just so you all can see what id be working with.

This would be an online purchase though, so no way for me to know anything more about the screws and holes until i would purchase it and actually have it in my possession.

10-96 · June 26, 2018, 07:32 PM

I'm going to go out on a limb, roll the dice, and say they are likely 6-48 threads. Could be wrong, have been before, but that is probably the most common thread for mounting bases.

Jim Watson · June 26, 2018, 11:29 PM

Yes.
The most common sight or scope base screw is 6-48, next is 8-40.
Not a usual hardware store size but Brownells and maybe Midway has them.
Even better, maybe somebody here saved the plug screws after putting on a scope and would karma you a couple.

Dfariswheel · June 27, 2018, 07:30 PM

An excellent fix is to buy some Dome Head Positive Stop plug screws from Brownell's.

These are plug screws with a domed head. The head prevents the screw from going in too far, and prevents the screw from backing out.
The rounded head gives a much more "finished" look then an ordinary plug screw and looks like it belongs there.
These are available in blued and stainless.

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...t-prod792.aspx

Powermwt · June 27, 2018, 10:25 PM

Not a lot of information to go on... I had Maynard Bueller out of Orinda, CA put a mount and set of rings on my 41 back in the mid 1980s.

I pulled up this on a thread asking what screws he used...

"I had the same problem and could not source a screw. What I can tell you is that the screw thread is a number 3 A.N.C thread and is .099 of an inch thick with a 48 TPI pitch. So get one made or re-tap the thread to a screw you can buy."

Does this screw sound like what you need?

Remington74 · June 28, 2018, 05:35 AM

Ace hardware stocks a lot of oddball small screws including some 'gunsmith" screws. I have found and bought several there over the years. Might be worth a try if one is in your area.

T. O'Heir · June 28, 2018, 11:46 AM

Most gun shops have filler screws in every drawer in the place. And will most likely give 'em to you for the asking.

Old Stony · June 28, 2018, 12:56 PM

Pick up a couple 6x48's at a gun shop and likely your problem will be solved. If they go in a little too far, just put a little blue Loctite on them and set at the depth you want. I've made a bunch of those plug screws over the years from regular screws using a thin cut off wheel on a Dremel and a craytex wheel to polish the tops.

MislMan · June 28, 2018, 08:00 PM

If the screws don’t pan out (pun intended) maybe try filling with JB Weld and touch up with cold blue.

Bill DeShivs · June 28, 2018, 09:12 PM

You can't color JB Weld with cold blue.

schotzfyred · June 29, 2018, 10:53 AM

Probably a 6-48 if it held a scope. A good hardware store might just have 4 or 6-48 allen "plug" set screws.
Amazon has a 12 Pack Blued Plug Screw 6-48 For Receiver Barrel Scope Sight Base Set

mellow_c · June 29, 2018, 11:27 PM

Well everyone, thanks for all the advice and recommendations, however, I decided to pass on the pistol. It was a beauty, and might have been a great buy, but i just want feeling it in the end and decided to go a different route. Now that the auction has passed and I'm not worried about advertising the pistol to more potential buyers

I'll go ahead and let you all see the gun for yourselves.

https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/774872626

Like i said... I decided to pass on it. And only one other person ended up bidding on it. So they won it for $895 + shipping and background check. I would think they probably got themselves a decent deal. Any opinions on the pistol one way or the other?

Old Stony · June 30, 2018, 03:43 AM

Looks a little overpriced to me....especially with alterations done to it. There has to be others out there somewhere unaltered....and possibly at a better price.

RC20 · July 1, 2018, 03:18 PM

Pheweee, nice gun. I have on unaltered and its not that nice.

Long term dream is to get a barrel that is drilled for a scope or Dot Site.

I cannot see or shoot pistol iron sites for a hoot and that would be the Cats meow.

They don't make them like that anymore. That is like about 1980

If I was in the market I would have gone $1000 for it. Get a second one in that date range, beat up or? with a good barrel and swap em. Yea I know that is not honest, as long as its in the right date range, a barrel is a barrel.

It is a shame that it was altered as the box and papers are keepers.

But the value in those is the workmanship as opposed to antique collector (at least now)

Price a new one that is not as quality as those old ones and......

New ones go for $1200 or a bit better and they are not as good.

mellow_c · July 1, 2018, 04:54 PM

RC20,

I sure like the older ones... They have beautiful bluing... The newer ones don't look as nice in my opinion (the ones from the 90's on up). The newer ones also appear to have laminate grips instead of regular wood stocks/grips like i see on the older ones, is that correct? Do you think the newer ones are of any lesser quality aside from just not looking as nice? I have extremely limited experience with these pistols so I don't have an opinion beyond what I can see with my eyes.

I'm curious about how all the different years compare. I've also heard that some of them from the 80's can be more problematic than the older or newer ones... ?

RC20 · July 1, 2018, 06:32 PM

I am really not up to speed on the newer ones. Comments that they are just not the precision of the older models.

The older ones coule be problematical. My brohter had one he sold as it did not work right (if I had only known, dang)

What made them good was they were hand fitted.

What can make thgat a problem is its done by hand.

That gets into a some and some thing. I had never heard of a bad one until he told me about his (sigh).

On the Average I would guess the new ones are decent as they are consistent.

But I don't think they had the quality or accuracy of the old ones.

Kind of a take and an opinion. No issues with mine at all.

Funny story how I got it as the counter guys snatched them when they came in, bought them and then sold them for big bucks. List was $168 as I remember. S&W made the stores sell them no higher than list.

They had a new guy at Pay n Pak (long gone) he put it out before the pro saw it had come in.

Said pro came out from back of the store while I had it in my hot hands and tried to convince me it was not for sale.

Really? Lets see, its on my side here, I have a check written out for it, you can try to take it away from me or you can accept you screwed up and a customer gets it. Make my day. One of the best dirty looks I ever got, didn't help I was laughing.

mellow_c · July 2, 2018, 01:04 AM

Good stuff RC20

So are the newer ones NOT hand fitted? And by newer are we talking 1990's and up?

Rob228 · July 4, 2018, 08:09 AM

Not really related, but the NROTC unit that I instructed at had a pile of S&W 41's that had seen a ton of use but still shot fairly well, except they tended to fail to extract. Not a terribly hard fix, but due to bureaucracy it would have taken about 3 years to get them fixed so the Midshipmen got used to clearing malfunctions.

They also had a bunch of Remington 40X's, also with worn out extractors that could still make one ragged hole at 50'.

What they had in the de-milled "drill rifle" arsenal would make just about anyone cry. About 50 Garands of which I am by no means an expert, AND a pile of old ARs, all serial numbers starting with "XM" with receivers welded shut.

SGW Gunsmith · July 4, 2018, 01:08 PM

I have never, in my 47+ years doing gun repair seen #6-48 screws with a tapered, hex-socket head.

Every optics base screw that I've used and seen are either Weaver, or fillister style heads, for hex-socket, torx or slotted driver bits.
From this chair, that screw is most likely a #6-32 thread, and NOT something you would want to invest in.

mellow_c · July 5, 2018, 03:02 PM

Thanks for the additional posts.

Always nice to hear about the potential longevity of any firearm. Too bad about those drill rifles!

The more I think about it, the more comfortable I am with my decision not to buy this particular model 41.

June 26, 2018, 03:36 PM	#1
mellow_c Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,862	please help. filler screws for holes in s&w model 41 I might have a chance to buy a nice s&w model 41 (.22lr semi auto). The pistol is in great shape for its age except that it had two large holes drilled in to the top of the barrel so that a scope mount could be installed. I would prefer to shoot it with iron sights, and the drilled holes really detract from the collectability and the and the asthetics in my opinion. If i were able to fill the holes with some screws that don't stick out, like what you find on top of most 10-22's and many other rifles and pistols... Then i would feel like the modification would be tolerable in that it still would remain a useful option and less of an eye sore. I wouldn't know the first place to look for something like that though. Could i find something like that somewhere, or is it something that would have to be made by modifying a longer screw? Id have to figure out what the threads are before anything i suppose. Whether or not I buy this pistol might depend on if i think this can be achieved without too much trouble so I'm turning to the experts here for opinions. I'd attach a couple pictures but they are too big of files and im not real good with figuring out that sort of stuff. Thanks!

June 26, 2018, 04:00 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Most gun screws like that have finer threads than standard and are sometimes the less common #5 wire diameter. You see 4-48 and 5-40 or 5-44 and 6-40 instead of the common 4-40 and 6-32. About the only way I know to check is to try running screws of these different sizes into the holes. Most thread gauges won't fit inside and are, instead, meant to measure male threads on screws. If you can't get the male screws to gauge, any gunsmith is likely to have some screws to try and may have a kit of plug screws like the one Brownell's sells. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 26, 2018, 04:17 PM	#3
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,833	Find screws that fit. File as close to the barrel as possible. Then slowly peen them over. Express Blue or old fashion rust blue (sweat box). __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

June 26, 2018, 05:54 PM	#4
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	I don't think you want to be making a Model 41 barrel to peen a screw over. Brownells should have tiny slot screws for that purpose once you establish the size. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

June 26, 2018, 07:32 PM	#7
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,159	I'm going to go out on a limb, roll the dice, and say they are likely 6-48 threads. Could be wrong, have been before, but that is probably the most common thread for mounting bases. __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

June 26, 2018, 06:48 PM	#5
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,159	Get the 41 if it's in a price you can live with. Then, do as Unclenick said, try some screws, find one that fits, take it to a hardware store to find out the exact size and thread pitch. Then take a peek here... https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...rews/index.htm It may be a bit of leg work, but in the end, the proper screw will look a whole lot better. __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

June 26, 2018, 11:29 PM	#8
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	Yes. The most common sight or scope base screw is 6-48, next is 8-40. Not a usual hardware store size but Brownells and maybe Midway has them. Even better, maybe somebody here saved the plug screws after putting on a scope and would karma you a couple.

June 27, 2018, 07:30 PM	#9
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	An excellent fix is to buy some Dome Head Positive Stop plug screws from Brownell's. These are plug screws with a domed head. The head prevents the screw from going in too far, and prevents the screw from backing out. The rounded head gives a much more "finished" look then an ordinary plug screw and looks like it belongs there. These are available in blued and stainless. https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...t-prod792.aspx

June 27, 2018, 10:25 PM	#10
Powermwt Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2000 Location: Selah, WA Posts: 326	Not a lot of information to go on... I had Maynard Bueller out of Orinda, CA put a mount and set of rings on my 41 back in the mid 1980s. I pulled up this on a thread asking what screws he used... "I had the same problem and could not source a screw. What I can tell you is that the screw thread is a number 3 A.N.C thread and is .099 of an inch thick with a 48 TPI pitch. So get one made or re-tap the thread to a screw you can buy." Does this screw sound like what you need?

June 28, 2018, 05:35 AM	#11
Remington74 Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2012 Location: Carthage, NY Posts: 231	Ace hardware stocks a lot of oddball small screws including some 'gunsmith" screws. I have found and bought several there over the years. Might be worth a try if one is in your area.

June 28, 2018, 11:46 AM	#12
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Most gun shops have filler screws in every drawer in the place. And will most likely give 'em to you for the asking. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

June 28, 2018, 12:56 PM	#13
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	Pick up a couple 6x48's at a gun shop and likely your problem will be solved. If they go in a little too far, just put a little blue Loctite on them and set at the depth you want. I've made a bunch of those plug screws over the years from regular screws using a thin cut off wheel on a Dremel and a craytex wheel to polish the tops.

June 28, 2018, 08:00 PM	#14
MislMan Member Join Date: July 20, 2015 Posts: 57	If the screws don’t pan out (pun intended) maybe try filling with JB Weld and touch up with cold blue.

June 28, 2018, 09:12 PM	#15
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,984	You can't color JB Weld with cold blue. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

June 29, 2018, 10:53 AM	#16
schotzfyred Member Join Date: April 25, 2018 Location: NH Posts: 30	Probably a 6-48 if it held a scope. A good hardware store might just have 4 or 6-48 allen "plug" set screws. Amazon has a 12 Pack Blued Plug Screw 6-48 For Receiver Barrel Scope Sight Base Set __________________ "When you got 'em by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow" John "Duke" Wayne

June 29, 2018, 11:27 PM	#17
mellow_c Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,862	Well everyone, thanks for all the advice and recommendations, however, I decided to pass on the pistol. It was a beauty, and might have been a great buy, but i just want feeling it in the end and decided to go a different route. Now that the auction has passed and I'm not worried about advertising the pistol to more potential buyers I'll go ahead and let you all see the gun for yourselves. https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/774872626 Like i said... I decided to pass on it. And only one other person ended up bidding on it. So they won it for $895 + shipping and background check. I would think they probably got themselves a decent deal. Any opinions on the pistol one way or the other?

June 30, 2018, 03:43 AM	#18
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	Looks a little overpriced to me....especially with alterations done to it. There has to be others out there somewhere unaltered....and possibly at a better price.

July 1, 2018, 03:18 PM	#19
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	Pheweee, nice gun. I have on unaltered and its not that nice. Long term dream is to get a barrel that is drilled for a scope or Dot Site. I cannot see or shoot pistol iron sites for a hoot and that would be the Cats meow. They don't make them like that anymore. That is like about 1980 If I was in the market I would have gone $1000 for it. Get a second one in that date range, beat up or? with a good barrel and swap em. Yea I know that is not honest, as long as its in the right date range, a barrel is a barrel. It is a shame that it was altered as the box and papers are keepers. But the value in those is the workmanship as opposed to antique collector (at least now) Price a new one that is not as quality as those old ones and...... New ones go for $1200 or a bit better and they are not as good. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not Last edited by RC20; July 1, 2018 at 03:27 PM.

July 1, 2018, 04:54 PM	#20
mellow_c Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,862	RC20, I sure like the older ones... They have beautiful bluing... The newer ones don't look as nice in my opinion (the ones from the 90's on up). The newer ones also appear to have laminate grips instead of regular wood stocks/grips like i see on the older ones, is that correct? Do you think the newer ones are of any lesser quality aside from just not looking as nice? I have extremely limited experience with these pistols so I don't have an opinion beyond what I can see with my eyes. I'm curious about how all the different years compare. I've also heard that some of them from the 80's can be more problematic than the older or newer ones... ?

July 1, 2018, 06:32 PM	#21
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	I am really not up to speed on the newer ones. Comments that they are just not the precision of the older models. The older ones coule be problematical. My brohter had one he sold as it did not work right (if I had only known, dang) What made them good was they were hand fitted. What can make thgat a problem is its done by hand. That gets into a some and some thing. I had never heard of a bad one until he told me about his (sigh). On the Average I would guess the new ones are decent as they are consistent. But I don't think they had the quality or accuracy of the old ones. Kind of a take and an opinion. No issues with mine at all. Funny story how I got it as the counter guys snatched them when they came in, bought them and then sold them for big bucks. List was $168 as I remember. S&W made the stores sell them no higher than list. They had a new guy at Pay n Pak (long gone) he put it out before the pro saw it had come in. Said pro came out from back of the store while I had it in my hot hands and tried to convince me it was not for sale. Really? Lets see, its on my side here, I have a check written out for it, you can try to take it away from me or you can accept you screwed up and a customer gets it. Make my day. One of the best dirty looks I ever got, didn't help I was laughing. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

July 2, 2018, 01:04 AM	#22
mellow_c Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,862	Good stuff RC20 So are the newer ones NOT hand fitted? And by newer are we talking 1990's and up?

July 4, 2018, 08:09 AM	#23
Rob228 Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2010 Location: Hampstead NC Posts: 1,450	Not really related, but the NROTC unit that I instructed at had a pile of S&W 41's that had seen a ton of use but still shot fairly well, except they tended to fail to extract. Not a terribly hard fix, but due to bureaucracy it would have taken about 3 years to get them fixed so the Midshipmen got used to clearing malfunctions. They also had a bunch of Remington 40X's, also with worn out extractors that could still make one ragged hole at 50'. What they had in the de-milled "drill rifle" arsenal would make just about anyone cry. About 50 Garands of which I am by no means an expert, AND a pile of old ARs, all serial numbers starting with "XM" with receivers welded shut.

July 4, 2018, 01:08 PM	#24
SGW Gunsmith Junior member Join Date: December 31, 2014 Location: Northwest Wisconsin Posts: 285	I have *never*, in my 47+ years doing gun repair seen #6-48 screws with a tapered, hex-socket head. Every optics base screw that I've used and seen are either Weaver, or fillister style heads, for hex-socket, torx or slotted driver bits. From this chair, that screw is most likely a #6-32 thread, and NOT something you would want to invest in.

July 5, 2018, 03:02 PM	#25
mellow_c Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,862	Thanks for the additional posts. Always nice to hear about the potential longevity of any firearm. Too bad about those drill rifles! The more I think about it, the more comfortable I am with my decision not to buy this particular model 41.