Could use a little help... new to reloading- 45 LC

bozhoz · March 15, 2009, 05:28 PM

Started trying to reload 45 LC this weekend and having some troubles. Would appreciate some advice and tips to help solve. I am having a problem crimping my bullets. They continue to slide with finger pressure after seating and crimping and I cannot keep them consistent length. Here is some some more info on my set up.

-Using Hornady Dimension Dies with crimp on a LNL press
-Using Hornady XTP .452 240 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point (not sure if this is the correct bullet, thought I needed the 250, but this was all that was available). The bullet has a canelure, but if I try to crimp on this canelure, OAL is exceeding the 1.595" SAMMI for this round. I seat the bullet to just about max OAL then crimp on the bullet (not the cantelure, it is deeper down in the case). Tried light crimp, heavy crimp, etc, but on about half the rounds, I can twist the bullet and/or otherwise push it further down into the case, so no repeatability?

- I went through about 15-20 of these trying to get it right, but I am thinking I might be using the wrong bullet since the canelure didn't match up or maybe I need to trim the cases down a bit to get to my correct OAL?

-FYI, I will be shooting these in a Taurus Judge Revolver, so not sure if OAL is a major concern if they will chamber?

Like I said, I am new to reloading and trying to learn, but couldn't find the answers in the forum or in the books.. out of answers!

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · March 15, 2009, 05:34 PM

Since they are being shot out of a judge, I would extend your oal to the crimp groove. You know it will still fit in the chamber no problem. You should still have plenty of bullet being held by the neck. If you can slide the bullet in and out with finger pressure, you may want to make sure your sizing die is working properly and you are not flarring it too much. When you flare the case mouth, make sure you do it just enough to get the bullet started. When you seat your bullet, you actually want to feel some resistance....friction between the bullet and the brass. Good luck and Welcome to TFL.

bozhoz · March 15, 2009, 05:46 PM

Thanks for the help. I believe the sizing die is probably working ok. I might be flaring it a little much, I'll back that down and give it a try. Has anyone else loaded for a Judge? I think there is a step down in the cylinder at the normal .45 case length, but my guess is this shouldn't affect the bullet at all? Also, will OAL affect any of the pressures in the firearm? Certainly understand I can go a little longer in the judge due to the way it is built, but want to make sure it doesn't cause a pressure problem. By the way, I couldn't find any load data for the Hornady XTP 240 grain in a regular LC firearm. I am using 250 grain XTP bullet load data to start out. Using IMR SR4756 at 7.0 grains and will work it up to about 7.5 grains if possible. Just getting nervous because I am new to reloading and I feel like I am taking a lot of unknown/untested chances on this round? It's just so much easier when the book tells me the exact charge, I load the round, and it conforms to specs. As an additional bit of info, if a round tells me a max OAL, is there a minimum? For instance, if it tells me 1.595" OAL, can I set my round up at say 1.575", or is the OAL the length to shoot for?

bozhoz · March 16, 2009, 08:37 AM

I searched the forum and found some reference to the Hornady Dimension Dies in 45 Colt sizing the case to accept a .454 bullet, and that this may be causing some of the problems I am seeing? It mentions calling hornady and getting the 454 Casull sizing die, which sizes the case for .452 bullets? I am using jacketed Hornady .452 240 grain bullets, and after seating and crimping, am still able to push the bullet down further into the casing. I am hardly using any flare to start the bullet, so I don't think that is the problem??? Is it possible that by resizing the case to .454 diameter that I am not getting enough neck tension in the case to work with .452 jacketed bullets? Any help is appreciated!

bozhoz · March 17, 2009, 09:36 AM

I think I have the .45 problem figured out. I was using a max OAL of 1.595" on a particular load, however, I was using a 240 grain bullet vs. the 250 grain bullet. Long story made short, I am now crimping on the cannelure vs. seating the bullet deep and crimping on the jacketed bullet. OAL increases to about 1.640". Upon looking at other loads, I see that OAL in the .45 Colt can go as high as 1.75" depending on the load, so I am not really concerned that it won't fit.

Now, for my own info, does this sound acceptable? I am shooting in a Taurus Judge, I've got 3" of cylinder to play with, so I know the OAL shouldn't have any issue with fitting in the cylinder. Just want to make sure I am ok with pressures. My thought process was minimum load on the 250 grain bullet was 7.0 grains of IMR SR-4756 at 1.595" OAL. I am using the same charge, but on 240 grain bullet at 1.64", so pressures should be a little less, right?

jamaica · March 17, 2009, 10:40 AM

I would seat the bullet so you crimp in the cannelure. Your length will be OK.
Try pushing a bullet into the case by hand after you do the flare, and see if it goes. If it does you have a sizing problem. Improper crimping can bulge or wrinkle the brass and loosen the bullet. Also does your seating punch fit the nose of the bullet good and center it up? If the bullet goes in crooked, it can also loosen the fit. Some die sets have two bullet seating punches so you can choose the best fit.

At one time I had a similar problem with my 44 dies, The bullets were not tight in the neck. I ended up getting a new sizing die which fixed the problem.

Here is some additional info on crimping: Click Here

You are correct to say your pressures will be OK using the load data for the heavier bullet with the lighter bullet. My books do not list IMR SR-4756 for this cartridge, so I won't comment on the load.

jamaica · March 17, 2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

As an additional bit of info, if a round tells me a max OAL, is there a minimum?

Seating deeper raises the pressure. I have never found it to be a problem to seat a bit deeper when using loads near the low presssure end. Certainly it could become a problem as you near max pressures. If a revolver bullet has a cannelure or crimp grove, I like to crimp in that groove. Just check to see that it is not too long to work in the gun. No problem with the Judge on that score. I hope you get this problem solved. Many reloading manuals show the OAL for a particular bullet. Different weight or style of bullets may have different OAL. What I suggest is to seat the bullet so it crimps in the grove, use a load from the low end, then work up your load from there.

bozhoz · March 17, 2009, 11:14 AM

Thanks, I appreciate the advice, I'll crimp on the groove, and this really should solve my problem. Just new to reloading, so it makes me nervous to attempt making my "own" load when it is not matching up to the published load. I am nervous with all the variables.

March 15, 2009, 05:28 PM	#1
bozhoz Member Join Date: March 15, 2009 Posts: 82	Could use a little help... new to reloading- 45 LC Started trying to reload 45 LC this weekend and having some troubles. Would appreciate some advice and tips to help solve. I am having a problem crimping my bullets. They continue to slide with finger pressure after seating and crimping and I cannot keep them consistent length. Here is some some more info on my set up. -Using Hornady Dimension Dies with crimp on a LNL press -Using Hornady XTP .452 240 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point (not sure if this is the correct bullet, thought I needed the 250, but this was all that was available). The bullet has a canelure, but if I try to crimp on this canelure, OAL is exceeding the 1.595" SAMMI for this round. I seat the bullet to just about max OAL then crimp on the bullet (not the cantelure, it is deeper down in the case). Tried light crimp, heavy crimp, etc, but on about half the rounds, I can twist the bullet and/or otherwise push it further down into the case, so no repeatability? - I went through about 15-20 of these trying to get it right, but I am thinking I might be using the wrong bullet since the canelure didn't match up or maybe I need to trim the cases down a bit to get to my correct OAL? -FYI, I will be shooting these in a Taurus Judge Revolver, so not sure if OAL is a major concern if they will chamber? Like I said, I am new to reloading and trying to learn, but couldn't find the answers in the forum or in the books.. out of answers!

March 15, 2009, 05:34 PM	#2
IllinoisCoyoteHunter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 1,527	Since they are being shot out of a judge, I would extend your oal to the crimp groove. You know it will still fit in the chamber no problem. You should still have plenty of bullet being held by the neck. If you can slide the bullet in and out with finger pressure, you may want to make sure your sizing die is working properly and you are not flarring it too much. When you flare the case mouth, make sure you do it just enough to get the bullet started. When you seat your bullet, you actually want to feel some resistance....friction between the bullet and the brass. Good luck and Welcome to TFL. __________________ ~~IllinoisCoyoteHunter~~ ~NRA LIFE MEMBER~ ~NRA CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR~

March 16, 2009, 08:37 AM	#4
bozhoz Member Join Date: March 15, 2009 Posts: 82	Hornady Sizing Die for .45 Colt? I searched the forum and found some reference to the Hornady Dimension Dies in 45 Colt sizing the case to accept a .454 bullet, and that this may be causing some of the problems I am seeing? It mentions calling hornady and getting the 454 Casull sizing die, which sizes the case for .452 bullets? I am using jacketed Hornady .452 240 grain bullets, and after seating and crimping, am still able to push the bullet down further into the casing. I am hardly using any flare to start the bullet, so I don't think that is the problem??? Is it possible that by resizing the case to .454 diameter that I am not getting enough neck tension in the case to work with .452 jacketed bullets? Any help is appreciated!

March 17, 2009, 09:36 AM	#5
bozhoz Member Join Date: March 15, 2009 Posts: 82	Think I have it figured out, but could use some more advice I think I have the .45 problem figured out. I was using a max OAL of 1.595" on a particular load, however, I was using a 240 grain bullet vs. the 250 grain bullet. Long story made short, I am now crimping on the cannelure vs. seating the bullet deep and crimping on the jacketed bullet. OAL increases to about 1.640". Upon looking at other loads, I see that OAL in the .45 Colt can go as high as 1.75" depending on the load, so I am not really concerned that it won't fit. Now, for my own info, does this sound acceptable? I am shooting in a Taurus Judge, I've got 3" of cylinder to play with, so I know the OAL shouldn't have any issue with fitting in the cylinder. Just want to make sure I am ok with pressures. My thought process was minimum load on the 250 grain bullet was 7.0 grains of IMR SR-4756 at 1.595" OAL. I am using the same charge, but on 240 grain bullet at 1.64", so pressures should be a little less, right?

March 15, 2009, 05:46 PM	#3
bozhoz Member Join Date: March 15, 2009 Posts: 82	Thanks for the help. I believe the sizing die is probably working ok. I might be flaring it a little much, I'll back that down and give it a try. Has anyone else loaded for a Judge? I think there is a step down in the cylinder at the normal .45 case length, but my guess is this shouldn't affect the bullet at all? Also, will OAL affect any of the pressures in the firearm? Certainly understand I can go a little longer in the judge due to the way it is built, but want to make sure it doesn't cause a pressure problem. By the way, I couldn't find any load data for the Hornady XTP 240 grain in a regular LC firearm. I am using 250 grain XTP bullet load data to start out. Using IMR SR4756 at 7.0 grains and will work it up to about 7.5 grains if possible. Just getting nervous because I am new to reloading and I feel like I am taking a lot of unknown/untested chances on this round? It's just so much easier when the book tells me the exact charge, I load the round, and it conforms to specs. As an additional bit of info, if a round tells me a max OAL, is there a minimum? For instance, if it tells me 1.595" OAL, can I set my round up at say 1.575", or is the OAL the length to shoot for?

March 17, 2009, 10:40 AM	#6
jamaica Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2006 Location: Northern Utah Posts: 705	I would seat the bullet so you crimp in the cannelure. Your length will be OK. Try pushing a bullet into the case by hand after you do the flare, and see if it goes. If it does you have a sizing problem. Improper crimping can bulge or wrinkle the brass and loosen the bullet. Also does your seating punch fit the nose of the bullet good and center it up? If the bullet goes in crooked, it can also loosen the fit. Some die sets have two bullet seating punches so you can choose the best fit. At one time I had a similar problem with my 44 dies, The bullets were not tight in the neck. I ended up getting a new sizing die which fixed the problem. Here is some additional info on crimping: Click Here You are correct to say your pressures will be OK using the load data for the heavier bullet with the lighter bullet. My books do not list IMR SR-4756 for this cartridge, so I won't comment on the load.

March 17, 2009, 11:14 AM	#8
bozhoz Member Join Date: March 15, 2009 Posts: 82	Thanks, I appreciate the advice, I'll crimp on the groove, and this really should solve my problem. Just new to reloading, so it makes me nervous to attempt making my "own" load when it is not matching up to the published load. I am nervous with all the variables.