I need limp wristing advice

[Cosmodragoon]

Agree with the advice about .380 pistols.

This could be a problem in that smaller and lighter guns seem more likely to malfunction when held loosely or incorrectly. In fact, light and large seems to bring it out too. I've seen lots of new shooters stove-pipe a round with the very big but very light FNX-45. Finding a less sensitive gun may help. So too will working on proper grip and maybe some exercises to increase hand strength.

[Hal]

I would suggest having an instructor work with her. Sometimes input on how to improve is better received from a neutral party as opposed to a boyfriend or husband telling her what to do.

That's the real answer & best suggestion here.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by Hal

Really?

Maybe you'd like to send an message to Sandy Keathley - and tell her to quit spreading bad advice eh?

Her last line - -"Even as you get more used to shooting, don’t let yourself get too casual about your grip. Treat it like it will fly out of your hands, and you can minimize those annoying jams." Says just about the exact same thing as I suggested....

And that can be done without the pseudo threats.

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[Hal]

Ok - fine - you win - you're the master of limp wristing advice,,,

A certified NRA instructor and I don't know anything about it....

Have a nice life, no use in even trying to converse with you on this.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by Hal

Ok - fine - you win - you're the master of limp wristing advice,,,

A certified NRA instructor and I don't know anything about it....

Have a nice life, no use in even trying to converse with you on this.

Win? I'm expressing an opinion. I don't win anything. My point is in my experience new shooters are already stressed enough without making things up to add to the stress and likely making them shoot worse. The notion of not having jams is typically enough for people to listen to you as they typically want to do well. As for NRA instructor certification, I respect people that have made the effort to go through with that. That said, frankly for me personally that is the bare minimum certification. I've met excellent NRA certified instructors, and ones that really weren't. That woman sounds like she has a good grasp of both the physics in shooting and the principles of instruction. You'll notice in that article that at no point did she suggest pseudo threatening the shooter or making things up. Your own example isn't doing what you stated in the first post. I can give you a list of instructors that would agree with what I'm saying as well, but frankly what we're talking about is basic teaching and doesn't even require that.

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[Aguila Blanca]

Did someone say "instructor"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylh4DyMADRU

This video explains recoil, and how the "isometric tension" of a proper grip resists recoil/muzzle flip. At about the 1:30 mark he gets into the push-pull between the strong hand and the support hand. It's the push vs. pull that creates the isometric tension. The point is that a semi-automatic firearm functions by using the energy of the shot to cycle the slide relative to the receiver. If we allow the receiver to also move, then the slide can't do what needs to be done to eject the empty case and load the next round.

[TunnelRat]

The frame does move slightly though, and most designs are tolerant of some movement in the frame. It's not that the frame has to remain perfectly stationary, it's that there is a limit on the movement that can happen while still allowing proper function. Different designs are more or less tolerant of this. I can use a less than ideal grip on most of the pistols in my safe and they will still cycle and I have to really limpwrist the heck out of some of them to get it to happeb. I have a number of pistols in my safe my wife can shoot reliably despite me visually seeing her limpwristing at times. The fact that this shooter did have it working before shows she can do this, she's likely just out of practice.

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[chadio]

Wow.

Firearms people are absolutely the most opinionated yet sensitive yet easily offensive yet easily offended group of folks that I have ever encountered.

For reference, I have been a forum member in the following interest groups:

- marine engines
- rimfire firearms
- bass players
- vintage audio
- jet boats
- mountain bikes
- atv's, rhinoforums

No one knows how to have a civil conversation anymore? I am guilty of being less - than - civil with regard to civil servants, but I have my reasons....

[44 AMP]

Firearms people are absolutely the most opinionated yet sensitive yet easily offensive yet easily offended group of folks that I have ever encountered.

And the ones who post on the Internet are the absolute worst!!!

Also some of the friendliest, most helpful people you will encounter. Don't judge everyone by a few snarky individuals.

Now, I also going to say "get a revolver!" but not for the lady's problem (though it will eliminate "limp wristing), no, its not a "get a Glock" kind of thing, either.

Get a revolver, because everyone should have one.
One, small or large, you choice. get one for ...diversity! Seriously, nothing points up the differences needed in gripping and shooting different guns than shooting different guns! And, who knows, you (and her) might just LIKE it!

OK, she was doing just fine before, and now she's not, right?? Nothing else changed, but her? How about asking HER what SHE thinks she might be doing different?? (and if she says "I don't know") get her HELP on figuring it out.

Even if you are certain what it is she is doing differently, you TELLING her that might not help. The idea of 3rd party instruction has a LOT of merit.

Also, don't go trying to turn her into a world class speed shooter overnight. Nothing damages a new shooter's enthusiasm worse than trying to do to much, too soon. Same with shooting too big a gun.

Throw a non, or poor swimmer into the deep end of the pool, and they will learn to swim to keep from drowning, but they won't LIKE it, and many will decide swimming isn't for them...because of that.

Advise, rather than instruct, explain, instead of ordering, works best for many people.

Get someone else to help her, someone that she doesn't have to "prove" anything to. It may make all the difference needed.

Good Luck!

And I'm serious about a revolver. Until you try it, you just don't know. The RIGHT revolver just might be your ladyfriend's "cup of tea".
The RIGHT revolver...to begin with.

here's a story, take it for what its worth, but it shows my point that some people are just better with some things than others, even things they're not really enthusiastic about...

My daughter is "fairly competent" with firearms. I never pushed guns on either of my kids, they learned what they learned because they wanted to. My daughter is not a real enthusiast. But she does know what she's doing, and surprises people when she does it.

Took her and boyfriend shooting. Boyfriend is "typical" in this regard, not very skilled, thinks he knows more than he does, and is puppy eager to shoot...(probably expecting to impress my daughter...)

Just plinking, target is old 2x4 stuck in dirt bank, range about 30 feet.
S&W Highway Patrolman (model 28 6") REVOLVER
shooting .38 Specials
Both shoot, hit post 2-3 times..all good...
Boyfriend asks to shoot magnums.
Again, hits post a couple times, and is really impressed with .357 Magnums...
Tells daughter, "honey, you have GOT to try this!!!!!"
Daughter, rolls eye at me, and agrees...
.357 Magnum, (my handloads, not at all ...weak...)
Hits post, SIX out of SIX!
Big chucks fly off, every shot...

hands me back the gun, turns to boyfriend (who is standing there with his mouth hanging open), and says "happy now??

As daughter wanders off to unpack picnic lunch, boyfriend stands there dumbstruck, and I tell him,
"If I were you, I wouldn't do anything to really "tick" her off..."
he nods, slowly....

The real point here is that there may be something else (a different gun, perhaps) your ladyfriend can be really good at, so don't force her into "your mold", let her find her own way, and help when, and as you can.

[hdwhit]

PushPuller asked:
I need limp wristing advice

Does the person has the physical strength to manage the gun. All the grip training in the world is pointless (and even counter-productive) if the strength is not there. Spending some time with some dumbbells improving the strength of muscles in the forearm and wrist may be the first step.

[T. O'Heir]

Try using target velocity ammo. That'd be cast bullets.
It sounds like she's lost whatever strength in her wrists she had, but that's not really likely. However, exercising her grip with half a rubber ball or a thingy like this will help. Kind of doubt it's a strength issue too though. It's quite possibly a change in interest.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Serious-S...ipper/48194415

[Radny97]

There are only two solutions to limp wristing. Practice and strength training (get her some grip strengtheners from the local sports equipment store and take her to the range lots more) or you buy her a revolver.
There’s really no other way around it.

[Brownstone322]

First of all, I cannot even simulate "limp-wristing"; I don't entirely get it. I've seen it happen to someone else with a brand-new Glock 19X, then the guy got the same result with my Glock 17 Gen 5. Both pieces shot fine for me. It's an odd thing to observe.

Then there's this ...

Originally Posted by PushPuller

A couple months back I went and bought my once liberal leaning fiancée a handgun of her own to finally pull her the rest of the way into the dark side.

I wanna circle back to the top of this and make an observation that is important to me. Lots of "liberals" shoot guns; we need to embrace these people, because they can help tip the scales on public policy. YouTuber Hickok45 recognizes this, and he prefers the term "anti-gunner," which is more descriptive and less political. He says he knows lots of liberals who shoot. I know some too.

I consider myself a libertarian (lowercase "l"), and I abhor much of what conservatives espouse (especially social right-wingers) every bit as much as I detest the ideas of the far left. (Referring again to public policy here, not personal views; individuals can think anything they want.) Meantime, I have lots of cool guns.

Anyway, please don't pigeonhole shooters to the right. I like to think we are mainstream America.


.

[PushPuller]

Originally Posted by jetinteriorguy

I would suggest having an instructor work with her. Sometimes input on how to improve is better received from a neutral party as opposed to a boyfriend or husband telling her what to do.

I 100% agree with this, She has gotten free advice from a couple of instructors/ range officers from our local shooting range and they generally get the job done with half as many words as I would use. She responds very well to constructive criticism when someone's credentials can support it. So to me its worth $50 if its something she can use in the future and it gives me piece of mind knowing she is more thoroughly competent.

Get a revolver, because everyone should have one.
One, small or large, you choice. get one for ...diversity! Seriously, nothing points up the differences needed in gripping and shooting different guns than shooting different guns! And, who knows, you (and her) might just LIKE it!

OK, she was doing just fine before, and now she's not, right?? Nothing else changed, but her? How about asking HER what SHE thinks she might be doing different?? (and if she says "I don't know") get her HELP on figuring it out.

Even if you are certain what it is she is doing differently, you TELLING her that might not help. The idea of 3rd party instruction has a LOT of merit.

Also, don't go trying to turn her into a world class speed shooter overnight. Nothing damages a new shooter's enthusiasm worse than trying to do to much, too soon. Same with shooting too big a gun.

Throw a non, or poor swimmer into the deep end of the pool, and they will learn to swim to keep from drowning, but they won't LIKE it, and many will decide swimming isn't for them...because of that.

Advise, rather than instruct, explain, instead of ordering, works best for many people.

Get someone else to help her, someone that she doesn't have to "prove" anything to. It may make all the difference needed.

Revolvers are definitely not out of the picture! I actually have a very loving relationship with my dads S&W 686, and he does have several .38 specials in various sizes that we can also try on for size. I also asked her what she thought she was doing differently or what changed and she says the only thing that's changed is her confidence in handling HER 238 and that she is less intimidated by it than the 1911s. So perhaps her grip has gotten just ever so slightly loose enough to cause the jam because she KNOWS it wont just fly out of her grip.

Quote:
PushPuller asked:
I need limp wristing advice
Does the person has the physical strength to manage the gun. All the grip training in the world is pointless (and even counter-productive) if the strength is not there. Spending some time with some dumbbells improving the strength of muscles in the forearm and wrist may be the first step.

Yes and no. She has 14 years piano, guitar, flute and sax experience so wrist/hand strength is not poor, but could she aim and point at a door knob for longer than 10 seconds? probably not.

I wanna circle back to the top of this and make an observation that is important to me. Lots of "liberals" shoot guns; we need to embrace these people, because they can help tip the scales on public policy. YouTuber Hickok45 recognizes this, and he prefers the term "anti-gunner," which is more descriptive and less political. He says he knows lots of liberals who shoot. I know some too.

I consider myself a libertarian (lowercase "l"), and I abhor much of what conservatives espouse (especially social right-wingers) every bit as much as I detest the ideas of the far left. (Referring again to public policy here, not personal views; individuals can think anything they want.) Meantime, I have lots of cool guns.

Anyway, please don't pigeonhole shooters to the right. I like to think we are mainstream America.

This is duly noted! Sometimes I forget that gun ownership doesn't ride in line with politics because out here in Nebraska it ALWAYS seems to. In the end I always view it as "For every new gun owner, is one more person to get angry when/if someone wants to take it from them."

[TailGator]

In my limited experience, limp wrist problems arise far more commonly from bad technique than from lack of physical strength. Once the shooter understands the need for providing a stable platform for the gun to function, not absorbing too much recoil, the problems usually resolve. FWIW, I don't like the term "limp wrist," either, because the recoil softening can come from other parts of the body. Overall instruction in stance and grip is what is usually needed.

[44 AMP]

Recoil operated handguns require something to recoil against.

How much that affects their operation varies with the gun design. Ammo plays a part, as well.

It is a bit difficult to explain but one doesn't need a death grip around the gun, one just has to keep it from moving too much, too soon.

Some guns and their designed ammo have more than enough energy "reserve" in their recoil that they are relatively insensitive in the way they are held when fired. There are others that will malfunction unless held just so.

Pistol shooting involves more than a bit of what is today called "multitasking", and if your guns needs to be held "just so" a lapse of concentration on ALL the things you need to do can be the cause of a malfunction. Get too focused on the sight or the trigger, and relax your grip just enough, and there you go. Gun A might not care, Gun B might care enough to throw a fit (jam).

[nagami]

Loving this thread! sub'd

[Sturmpanzer]

Im sure there is a pill for this....you know, for "Reptile Malfunction"....

[Sturmpanzer]

Get her a Bazooka... All problems get solved with a Bazooka...and girls with Bazooka's are hot...but if you're really old you might need a "Reptile Malfunction" pill...for limp things and crap.... Sorry... Such a funny thread...

[Sturmpanzer]

Good grip is the only solution...

[Sturmpanzer]

Yep..
https://youtu.be/jFclIWTGmUc

[seeker_two]

Originally Posted by Sturmpanzer

Im sure there is a pill for this....you know, for "Reptile Malfunction"....

I hate it when my reptile malfunctions. That's why I clean and lubricate my reptile after every range trip.....

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[Big Shrek]

Originally Posted by JN01

Revolvers are limp wrist proof. Has she tried one of those?

If of sufficient caliber, it'll smack 'em in the nose or forehead if not gripped firmly

There are some Utube vids on just that subject

[Sgt127]

Silly question.

Could it be the gun or the ammo? Her and the gun worked together perfectly before.

Edit.

I see it works for you. Maybe her and that gun are just not the right combination. It happens.

[kymasabe]

Someone mentioned a womans shooting club. Thats sounds lije a good idea, less intimidating to take advice from other ladies who've experienced same condition.
Next the "380 is too much for a lady " is BS. My daughters shoot their Taurus tcp and bodyguards all the time. The problem may be in the ergo's of the gun, some other grip/angle may help her.