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Old October 1, 2017, 05:47 PM   #1
the45er
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Could use some quick clarification

I have purchased (or assisted in the purchase) of a number of AR-15's from PSA in the last couple of years. All of them have had 16" barrels. A friend wants to put a 5.56 7 inch barrel on a lower he has. I was all set to help him order when I read the warning that I was responsible to be aware of all applicable laws and regulations regarding the purchase and ownership of uppers with a barrel length of less than 16". Federal NFA regulations are applicable to this item.

I live in Texas, which I assume would not have any overly restrict state rules on this. I don't want to order this 7" barrel and find out I was running afoul of federal NFA regulations. Do you need a special license to order/own an AR 15 with a barrel shorter than 16 inches?

Any help would be appreciated.
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Old October 1, 2017, 06:11 PM   #2
stagpanther
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Fancy talk for be aware if you build an SBR.
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Old October 1, 2017, 06:20 PM   #3
hdwhit
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First, you should post this in the NFA forum or the Legal forum where it seems that it would be more on-point.

Second, the AR's lower is the "firearm". You can lawfully assemble an AR lower as a rifle with a barrel 16 inches or longer (no NFA problems) or a pistol (with a barrel shorter than 16 inches, again, no NFA problem as long as you can't shoulder the pistol), but if you install a short barrel upper on your existing AR rifle's lower, you now have a Short Barreled Rifle which is an NFA weapon and need to have the paperwork filed and approved and the approval in-hand before you start the conversion.

And remember, there is such as thing establishing intent constructively; that is if someone has an AR rifle lower and a short barrel upper, they don't have to have put them together for the government to argue they wouldn't have the two pieces if they didn't intend to put them together into an illegal configuration.

My advice would be educate yourself and your friend on the NFA, what it is, what it covers and what it requires. Then, if he is still intent on committing a felony and you're not going to turn him into the ATF, then disassociate from him. You've already posted here that you have been assisting people in purchasing ARs, so you could find yourself charged as an accessory.
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Old October 1, 2017, 06:20 PM   #4
JoeSixpack
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Ya I agre they just want you to be aware not to toss it on a stocked lower.. you also have to be careful about putting it on a AR that was originally (either first built or first sold) as a rifle.

Weird ATF rule.. Pistols can become rifles but not the other way around.
Just another reason to build your lower from a stripped receiver.. it's formed out as neither pistol nor rifle.

Also if your pistol upper is gonna share a lower with your rifle upper it's worth picking up a pistol buffer tube..

an orphan pistol upper could be construed as constructive possession of a SBR.. that's where they make a case that the only use for the upper is on the "butt stock'ed" rifle lower.

Although technically I don't think there is a legal requirement to have a pistol buffer tube on a pistol AR..

confused yet? me too..

Lowers are cheap to buy and build so for 100 bucks just get a stripped reciver, lower parts kit and pistol buffer tube and build it out as a pistol and problem solved.
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Old October 1, 2017, 11:35 PM   #5
Chainsaw.
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The short answer to buying a 7" AR barrel is NO.
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Old October 2, 2017, 12:37 AM   #6
stagpanther
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Practically-speaking, a 7" barrel means you're building a pistol if you're not going to pay for the SBR annual tag. The relevance to the lower is that if you stick a pistol configured upper on a lower that was originally configured for a rifle/carbine you are violating ATF's "policies" governing the use of short-barreled weapons if your not paying for an SBR tag. So, what you need to do is ensure that the lower (functionally speaking, that's the "firearm") is either registered as a pistol when originally purchased as a complete weapon or assembled lower--or if making a lower build yourself make sure you do it's very first assembly with a pistol buffer tube and compliant butt stock.

Rumor has it the ATF has palm readers, tarot card specialists and Vulcan mind-welders to detect if you have complied with this requirement for your lower. I do take pictures and keep all relevant parts on hand for any lower build that may be later be used for a rifle.
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Last edited by stagpanther; October 2, 2017 at 12:46 AM.
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Old October 2, 2017, 02:33 AM   #7
marine6680
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Short and simple answer as I can manage...

16in is the shortest legal barrel length for a civilian rifle.

You can legally build an "AR pistol" with a barrel length shorter than 16in.

An AR pistol has no butt stock. It will have a buffer tube, usually a simple round one that can't mount a stock.

When you buy a stripped lower receiver, the shop should fill out the paperwork and list it as "other"... If they list it as a rifle or pistol, that's wrong. A stripped lower is not either until.assembeled.

This is important... As a rifle generally can not be converted to a pistol legally. If it left the manufacturer as a complete rifle, or you first built a stripped lower into a rifle, then it is stuck a rifle according to the ATF.

A pistol can be converted into a rifle, and back into a pistol no problem... Provided that during the process you do not have it in an illegal configuration. Meaning, you put on a stock, while the short pistol barrel is still attached, that would be illegal.

Generally, it's best to just leave a pistol a pistol.

As was mentioned... If you own a short barrel, and do not also own a pistol you can install it on... The government looks at that unfavorably.

So if you own a rifle that the short barrel can be attached to, but do not also own a pistol lower, that's bad juju... Basically, without the pistol lower on hand, it's claimed the only thing the short barrel is useful for, is putting it on your rifle illegally.


So buy and build a pistol lower first, then get the short barrel for it.
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Old October 2, 2017, 05:51 AM   #8
stagpanther
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Quote:
Generally, it's best to just leave a pistol a pistol.
+1 ^
That's pretty much it--I haven't converted my pistol lower for rifle use nor likely ever will. Just buy or put together your pistol lower from scratch as a dedicated pistol lower and you'll be in compliance.

You'll eventually encounter the "pistol catch 22" as to what is a legal buttstock and what is not. Manufacturers might run out claims that their gear is legally based on ATF opinion rulings. In most cases these things are blade like configurations or strap-on devices. I've tried a couple of these, and in the end found that I could shoot my pistol about as well without one as with one with enough practice (though obviously not as fast). I've never heard of anyone being cited for having an SBR with a pistol equipped with one of these buttstocks--so I don't know how much paranoia it's really worth--but I simply decided that for myself that I'd take that out of the equation altogether.
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Old October 2, 2017, 10:04 PM   #9
shaunpain
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The blade or strap on buffer tube devices, a la Sig brace, will let you know if their device is approved stuck with those and you should be okay. As long as the lower started as a pistol or other and has the requisite pistol buffer tube, you can use any length barrel and any slip on buffer brace.

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Old October 7, 2017, 12:04 AM   #10
ronl
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Just to complicate things a little more, you can build rifles with barrels shorter than 16". I have a 14.5 with a Phantom Flash hider permanently attached, which brings it out to the 16" legal length. You can use a 12" barrel with a 4" muzzle attachment permanently attached and be legal.
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