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May 25, 2016, 08:38 PM | #1 |
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Storing powder in gun safes and warning signs
I've seen warning signs for gun safes that say to not attempt to cut the safe open since powder is stored inside and doing so could set the powder off. Some people do store powder in gun safes and I think that doing so and posting a sign that warns about it is a good deterrent for somebody to try to break into the safe. However I was wondering about any criminal and civil liability that might be associated with it. Lets say you do have a safe containing gun powder and you have a sign warning about it and a thief tries to open the safe and the powder goes off and takes their hand off or severely injures them some other way or even kills them, what criminal and civil liabilities could you face? How about if you don't have a warning sign?
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May 25, 2016, 08:41 PM | #2 |
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I say good riddance to the thief, however with the state of our current legal system depending what state you are in I am sure the narrative will change
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May 25, 2016, 09:07 PM | #3 |
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I think that is a very far fetched scenario. If opening the safe is hazardous for a thief it's also likely hazardous to you. Short of having a boobie-trapped safe, a big no-no in and of itself, I don't think I'd worry about such an event.
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May 25, 2016, 10:51 PM | #4 |
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First off, lets make it clear, are you talking about "gunpowder" (Black Powder) or modern smokeless powder, "gunpowder"?
despite what movies, tv, and most people think, modern (smokeless) gunpowder is NOT an explosive. DOT classes it as a flammable solid. Black powder on the other hand IS an explosive. And it is NEVER properly stored in a safe of other sealed strong metal box. Doing so creates a bomb. Proper storage for quantities of black powder is always in something that will rupture and vent the pressure of an explosion easily. A wooden building/shed for example. Early venting of pressure prevents a larger explosion. IF you were using a torch, or power saw to cut into a gun safe with smokeless powder inside, it is REMOTELY possible you could ignite the powder. IF so, it would burn very fast (deflagrate), but not explode. Not sure about legal warnings and liability, best check your local laws, carefully. A safe full of smokeless powder is LESS dangerous than that can of gasoline you use to fill your lawnmower, physically. People believe different, but people believe a lot of stuff that isn't true. Just look at who we elect! I think a "warning" sign like you described is less a matter of legal liability than a matter of warning an ignorant thief to look for a "safer" and easier target. Assuming, of course, they actually read it, and understand the language...
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May 25, 2016, 11:50 PM | #5 | |
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May 25, 2016, 11:54 PM | #6 | |
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Quote:
http://www.libertysafe.com/accessory...-17-pg-49.html |
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May 26, 2016, 11:56 AM | #7 | |
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May 26, 2016, 12:56 PM | #8 |
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Your safe is not vented to disperse the burning gases, don't put your powder in there.
My safe is a big one, but interior room is limited, I'm not about to waste the volume taken up by a canister or two of powder when considering I've got other things with a lot more value that should be in the safe. Between guns, valuables, documents, etc., there's no room for a thirty buck can of powder. |
May 26, 2016, 02:03 PM | #9 |
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Well I don't store black powder in my gun safe but lets say that somebody were to booby trap their safe and a thief tried to open the safe and got injured as a result of the booby trap would the owner of the safe be criminally and civilly liable? How about if they had a warning sign?
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May 26, 2016, 03:14 PM | #10 |
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Booby traps are big "no no" in NY state and I assume in most if not all states. Open to tons of liability with a booby trap.
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May 26, 2016, 03:51 PM | #11 | ||||
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From the Texas Penal Code, my emphasis underlined: Quote:
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TX law also contains this little broadly-worded jewel that achieved some notoriety recently with regards to a high-school kid and a recycled digital clock... Quote:
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May 26, 2016, 05:07 PM | #12 |
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Your safe is not vented to disperse the burning gases, don't put your powder in there.
Roger that. A safe is for valuables, not powder or primers.
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May 26, 2016, 05:28 PM | #13 |
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The majority of residential burglars are too stupid, uninformed, or drugged out to understand the difference between explosive black powder and smokeless powder. A sign warning about explosive powder might have some value as a deterrent. On the other hand, I think very few residential burglars carry a cutting torch. They are more likely to attack your safe with a crowbar or sledgehammer, including tools they get from your garage.
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May 26, 2016, 06:33 PM | #14 | |
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May 26, 2016, 08:07 PM | #15 |
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Don't store gunpowder in a safe. Gunpowder is deteriorating the day it leaves the factory, when it gets old enough it will autocombust. You should see fuming red nitric acid gas coming out of the powder at the end of its shelf life, but, no one can guarantee that. If your bulk gunpowder catches on fire inside of a heavy steel container, you have created a big, bad, bomb. SAAMI storage requirements are containers that pop easily and vent easily.
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May 26, 2016, 08:07 PM | #16 |
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I have far too much powder to fit in my safe, even it it had any room in it, which it does not.
If you feel you have to store powder in a larger container, consider an old refrigerator. No one ever looks in them.
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May 26, 2016, 08:52 PM | #17 | |
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(also, proper installation includes a ground wire). Remember, black powder CAN detonate from static electricity.
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