FireStick.... is it a muzzleloader?

Beagle333 · January 30, 2020, 12:19 AM

A muzzleloader that's not really a muzzleloader. You only put half the load in from the muzzle. How far can they stretch "muzzleloading" to accommodate people who don't want to use a muzzleloader, but want that extra hunting time?

https://www.federalpremium.com/firestick.html

Hawg · January 30, 2020, 06:39 AM

It would be legal here but I doubt it would sell here since legal primitive weapons are breech loading cartridge guns with smokeless powder.

FrankenMauser · January 30, 2020, 12:01 PM

If I was just trying to 'cheat' the seasons, like so many other hunters, I might be interested.

But...
It's far from legal here - for many reasons. (At least for 'primitive weapon' season.)
And I've been using loose powder and patched round balls since I got started.

Even across the border, where it is probably legal, I'd rather stick with what I know. There is not much to be gained, and plenty to lose, by screwing with routine and muscle memory.

Because I can't and don't really want to use it, I want to knock it and make fun of it. But I can't. I like loopholes, regulation dodges, and people approaching things from a different angle.
The plastic bits do look pretty cheap, cheesy, and low quality. But if it works, that doesn't matter.
Hopefully, quality control is good. My history with Federal ammunition is not good. Lots and lots of bad dimensions and funky powder charges.

Okay, I'll make fun of them a little bit. I just looked again... $2+ per trigger pull, before adding a projectile and primer.

One might as well just rechamber for .338 Lapua.

zxcvbob · January 30, 2020, 12:41 PM

I think there's some legal distinction between breech-loading weapons where the projectile and propellant are loaded at the same time (like any modern cartridge) and where they are loaded separately. But I can't remember what it is. Does anyone know what I'm talking about, 'cause I don't. Might have something to do with being a Destructive Device, or an "antique" weapon and not needing a FFL for transfer.

This might be a question for the NFA subforum. It's bugging me that all I can remember is that it's something I should remember...

Hawg · January 30, 2020, 01:15 PM

Quote:

The plastic bits do look pretty cheap, cheesy, and low quality. But if it works, that doesn't matter.

They're supposed to be a one shot deal but I'm sure somebody will reload the things and wind up getting hurt. Exactly what kind of powder is Triple 8 anyway?

Pahoo · January 30, 2020, 03:28 PM

Quote:

A muzzleloader that's not really a muzzleloader.

Well, to answer your question, the states, DNR, determines what is legal to use, during a designated hunting season. We have a yearly instructor's workshop coming up and this is going to be a great question to ask. As an example, in Iowa, it is not legal to hunt with a firearm that has "Electronic" ignition, during the deer season. …..

This "contraction" is not new as I saw a similar example awhile back. …

Be true and;
Be Safe !!!

Beagle333 · January 30, 2020, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Exactly what kind of powder is Triple 8 anyway?

Apparently a BP sub that is only going to be for these type contraptions.

https://www.nmlra.org/news/What_Is_Hodgdon_triple_eight

**4V50 Gary** · February 1, 2020, 12:05 PM

Adapter is the best term I can come up with.

I'll stick with a real muzzle loader though.

7.62 man · February 1, 2020, 01:23 PM

What is the difference of doing that with a rifled barrel shot gun?
Just cut the sabot slug from the shell & load it in the barrel. Seal the powder charge in a half shell & insert the primer in the back of the shell. It would be the same thing wouldn't it?
Couldn't you call it a muzzle loader then.

Beagle333 · February 1, 2020, 01:35 PM

7.62 man, I'm thinking it's the same thing. (while being no authority on it)

FrankenMauser · February 1, 2020, 01:49 PM

My understanding of this system, applied to western states' hunting regulations means it is illegal in California, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington, and in restricted units in New Mexico. - Due to the ignition system, single-unit powder charge (pelletized, not 'loose', etc.), breech loading, sabots, 'pre-measured powder device' or 'quick loader', or current availability of rifles (no iron sights).

Utah's ban on components being 'bonded together' is likely to be expanded in some way to include this. So that's probably a dark cloud on the horizon.

Out west, that leaves... just Arizona?

FrankenMauser · February 1, 2020, 02:03 PM

Quote:

What is the difference of doing that with a rifled barrel shot gun?
Just cut the sabot slug from the shell & load it in the barrel. Seal the powder charge in a half shell & insert the primer in the back of the shell. It would be the same thing wouldn't it?
Couldn't you call it a muzzle loader then.

Now that you have brought that up, I'm kicking myself. I had completely forgotten that I've seen this before.

I know a guy back east that did this with a Marlin 336.
I don't know how it was achieve - with a sleeve, an insert, or multi-piece barrel - but the barrel was bored and rifled to .432", while retaining a .30-30 chamber.
The projectile loads from the muzzle.
Behind the projectile, a .30-30 case, primed, loaded with smokeless powder, and sealed with tracing paper is loaded at the breech.

(The ramrod is stored in the original magazine tube.)

He has taken several dozen deer with it.

He wanted a muzzle loader that could be unloaded without firing it or pulling the bullet, and happened to have a ratty 336 parts gun lying around...

January 30, 2020, 12:19 AM	#1
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	FireStick.... is it a muzzleloader? A muzzleloader that's not really a muzzleloader. You only put half the load in from the muzzle. How far can they stretch "muzzleloading" to accommodate people who don't want to use a muzzleloader, but want that extra hunting time? https://www.federalpremium.com/firestick.html __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.

January 30, 2020, 12:01 PM	#3
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	If I was just trying to 'cheat' the seasons, like so many other hunters, I might be interested. But... It's far from legal here - for many reasons. (At least for 'primitive weapon' season.) And I've been using loose powder and patched round balls since I got started. Even across the border, where it is probably legal, I'd rather stick with what I know. There is not much to be gained, and plenty to lose, by screwing with routine and muscle memory. Because I can't and don't really want to use it, I want to knock it and make fun of it. But I can't. I like loopholes, regulation dodges, and people approaching things from a different angle. The plastic bits do look pretty cheap, cheesy, and low quality. But if it works, that doesn't matter. Hopefully, quality control is good. My history with Federal ammunition is not good. Lots and lots of bad dimensions and funky powder charges. Okay, I'll make fun of them a little bit. I just looked again... $2+ per trigger pull, before adding a projectile and primer. One might as well just rechamber for .338 Lapua. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

January 30, 2020, 12:41 PM	#4
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	I think there's some legal distinction between breech-loading weapons where the projectile and propellant are loaded at the same time (like any modern cartridge) and where they are loaded separately. But I can't remember what it is. Does anyone know what I'm talking about, 'cause I don't. Might have something to do with being a Destructive Device, or an "antique" weapon and not needing a FFL for transfer. This might be a question for the NFA subforum. It's bugging me that all I can remember is that it's something I should remember... __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

February 1, 2020, 12:05 PM	#8
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	Adapter is the best term I can come up with. I'll stick with a real muzzle loader though. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

February 1, 2020, 01:35 PM	#10
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	7.62 man, I'm thinking it's the same thing. (while being no authority on it) __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.

January 30, 2020, 06:39 AM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	It would be legal here but I doubt it would sell here since legal primitive weapons are breech loading cartridge guns with smokeless powder.

February 1, 2020, 01:23 PM	#9
7.62 man Senior Member Join Date: April 30, 2009 Location: Cyber-world USA Posts: 258	What is the difference of doing that with a rifled barrel shot gun? Just cut the sabot slug from the shell & load it in the barrel. Seal the powder charge in a half shell & insert the primer in the back of the shell. It would be the same thing wouldn't it? Couldn't you call it a muzzle loader then.

February 1, 2020, 01:49 PM	#11
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	My understanding of this system, applied to western states' hunting regulations means it is illegal in California, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington, and in restricted units in New Mexico. - Due to the ignition system, single-unit powder charge (pelletized, not 'loose', etc.), breech loading, sabots, 'pre-measured powder device' or 'quick loader', or current availability of rifles (no iron sights). Utah's ban on components being 'bonded together' is likely to be expanded in some way to include this. So that's probably a dark cloud on the horizon. Out west, that leaves... just Arizona? __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.