You can only make tactical mistakes once.

Sorel366 · March 22, 2016, 09:45 PM

Gunfight in the Philippines. One made a grave mistake, the other showed no mercy. Hold it with 2 hands, dammit.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ba2_1458668485

Double Naught Spy · March 22, 2016, 10:00 PM

Your analysis is overly vague. One-handed shooting is fine and necessary in many instances.

g.willikers · March 23, 2016, 10:10 AM

There are plenty of times when one handed shooting is all that's available.
Like when opening doors, carrying a suitcase, or protecting someone.
One handed use of pistols should be part of everyone's skills.
On a recent popular podcast the head of a big city special detail said everyone on his squad has to be proficient with one handed shooting.
It's quite often needed.
A shoot out between street thugs is probably not the best example of effective tactics.

Skans · March 23, 2016, 10:16 AM

Strange situation. It seems like the two shooters knew each other; parked their cars and ran toward one another closing a distance of perhaps 60-100 feet using a neutral car as cover. Odd. It didn't seem like road rage. Turf war perhaps???

There was nothing defensive about the way either of the shooters were acting; neither had particularly great skills or technique. The only "tactical" error I saw was the neutral white car not backing up and driving the heck out of there instead of running from the car.

g.willikers · March 23, 2016, 11:25 AM

Without training and preparation people do very strange things in emergencies.
If the folks who were in that car ever see the video they're probably thinking the same thing.
"What were we thinking - not much."
Especially the driver.
Once he vacated, the rest didn't have much of a choice.
They were all danged lucky.
Hope the folks in the nearby houses were, too.

shafter · March 23, 2016, 01:08 PM

One handed shooting (with each hand) should be part of everyone's training.

Deaf Smith · March 23, 2016, 07:38 PM

Notice how much movement they did, ducking, zigzaging, weaving, etc. Kind of like they didn't want want to be shot! Imagine that!

Deaf

Sorel366 · March 23, 2016, 08:47 PM

One handed shooting should be employed when necessary. Emphasis on necessary. I think everyone agrees with that.

Double Naught Spy · March 24, 2016, 09:51 AM

Nope, Sorel, I don't agree with that.

kraigwy · March 24, 2016, 10:21 AM

I can only base this on my 20 years experience in LE. At the times I had to draw my gun, for any reason, the only time I can remember of having the luxury of using both hands was on the range.

You always have something in the other hand, flash light, ticket book, mirror (for peeking around corners), door knobs, bandits, etc.

One handed shooting, strong and week hand is critical. At extremely close range shooting you don't have the luxury of time, plus you're gun is needs to be extended, and exposed if using two hands at 2-6 feet or so.

Its my opinion that weak hand shooting is just as important then strong hand shooting.

But to each his own. 95% of my pistol/revolver practice is done with one hand, right and left.

boondocker385 · March 24, 2016, 10:03 PM

If you aren't practcing single hand shooting with both strong and weak hand, you are NOT practicing for the real world. Way too many reasons to list why you might only have one hand available. Not trying to be a jerk, but if you can't come up with at least 5 on your own, you aren't ready for self defense.

jglsprings · March 24, 2016, 10:12 PM

All generalizations are false...

Deaf Smith · March 24, 2016, 10:18 PM

Quote:

One handed shooting should be employed when necessary. Emphasis on necessary. I think everyone agrees with that.

And I do agree with that. Massad Ayoob has written articles on it and shows that many, if not the majority, DO use two hands in real gun battles (if trained to do just that.)

Those that don't train default to what those guys did in the video.

BTW, back in college I head a burglar at gunpoint one morning at my parents place. Used a Colt Cobra. And yes, two handed hold (I was both a Bill Jordan and Jeff Cooper fan back then, so I could have held it one handed or two, but without thinking I used two.)

Deaf

johnwilliamson062 · March 26, 2016, 09:30 PM

Phillipines is a right side drive country, so the driver would be on the left side. I didn't see him exit the vehicle. The vehicle takes off as soon as the others re-enter.
The occupant of the passenger side appears to point a revolver out the window at one point.

The grown men entering and exiting the vehicle, nor the shooters throwing their bodies against it, seems to move the body of the vehicle much in relation to the wheels.
All that shooting and no glass seems to have broken.
Conclusions?

I think the tactical mistakes were grave and made by the occupants of the rear seat of the vehicle. They aren't dressed very well, even for a warm tropical climate.

Sharkbite · March 26, 2016, 10:07 PM

One handed shooting abillity is a must. Being able to change to the support hand is VALUABLE in building searches and one handed ability is needed when using a flashlight

ALL the independant flashlight techniques that use both hands are compromises. Better to run the light with 1 hand and the gun with the other. Thats one of the things that make WML's so nice. Both hands on the gun AND able to use the light.

TWO hands whenever possible...BUT able to use the gun effectively with one hand when both are not available is one of the marks of a professional.

I train to be effective as possible with either hand or both hands. You just never know what situation will develop. I'll never be AS good with my support hand only, that just the way im wired. But im comfortable enough with support hand only shooting and manipulations to change at will thru a situation and keep rounds COM out to reasonable distances in the real world

March 22, 2016, 09:45 PM	#1
Sorel366 Junior Member Join Date: June 26, 2015 Posts: 12	You can only make tactical mistakes once. Gunfight in the Philippines. One made a grave mistake, the other showed no mercy. Hold it with 2 hands, dammit. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ba2_1458668485

March 22, 2016, 10:00 PM	#2
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Your analysis is overly vague. One-handed shooting is fine and necessary in many instances. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

March 23, 2016, 10:10 AM	#3
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	There are plenty of times when one handed shooting is all that's available. Like when opening doors, carrying a suitcase, or protecting someone. One handed use of pistols should be part of everyone's skills. On a recent popular podcast the head of a big city special detail said everyone on his squad has to be proficient with one handed shooting. It's quite often needed. A shoot out between street thugs is probably not the best example of effective tactics. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

March 23, 2016, 11:25 AM	#5
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Without training and preparation people do very strange things in emergencies. If the folks who were in that car ever see the video they're probably thinking the same thing. "What were we thinking - not much." Especially the driver. Once he vacated, the rest didn't have much of a choice. They were all danged lucky. Hope the folks in the nearby houses were, too. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

March 23, 2016, 07:38 PM	#7
Deaf Smith Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2000 Location: Texican! Posts: 4,453	Notice how much movement they did, ducking, zigzaging, weaving, etc. Kind of like they didn't want want to be shot! Imagine that! Deaf __________________ “To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides

March 23, 2016, 10:16 AM	#4
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	Strange situation. It seems like the two shooters knew each other; parked their cars and ran toward one another closing a distance of perhaps 60-100 feet using a neutral car as cover. Odd. It didn't seem like road rage. Turf war perhaps??? There was nothing defensive about the way either of the shooters were acting; neither had particularly great skills or technique. The only "tactical" error I saw was the neutral white car not backing up and driving the heck out of there instead of running from the car.

March 23, 2016, 01:08 PM	#6
shafter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2009 Posts: 1,624	One handed shooting (with each hand) should be part of everyone's training.

March 23, 2016, 08:47 PM	#8
Sorel366 Junior Member Join Date: June 26, 2015 Posts: 12	One handed shooting should be employed when necessary. Emphasis on necessary. I think everyone agrees with that. Last edited by Sorel366; March 24, 2016 at 01:05 AM.

March 24, 2016, 09:51 AM	#9
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Nope, Sorel, I don't agree with that. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

March 24, 2016, 10:21 AM	#10
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	I can only base this on my 20 years experience in LE. At the times I had to draw my gun, for any reason, the only time I can remember of having the luxury of using both hands was on the range. You always have something in the other hand, flash light, ticket book, mirror (for peeking around corners), door knobs, bandits, etc. One handed shooting, strong and week hand is critical. At extremely close range shooting you don't have the luxury of time, plus you're gun is needs to be extended, and exposed if using two hands at 2-6 feet or so. Its my opinion that weak hand shooting is just as important then strong hand shooting. But to each his own. 95% of my pistol/revolver practice is done with one hand, right and left. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

March 24, 2016, 10:03 PM	#11
boondocker385 Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2013 Posts: 640	If you aren't practcing single hand shooting with both strong and weak hand, you are NOT practicing for the real world. Way too many reasons to list why you might only have one hand available. Not trying to be a jerk, but if you can't come up with at least 5 on your own, you aren't ready for self defense. __________________ No second place finishes in a gun fight.

March 24, 2016, 10:12 PM	#12
jglsprings Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2009 Posts: 1,827	All generalizations are false... __________________ Let's eat Grandma. Let's eat, Grandma. Commas save lives...

March 26, 2016, 09:30 PM	#14
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	Phillipines is a right side drive country, so the driver would be on the left side. I didn't see him exit the vehicle. The vehicle takes off as soon as the others re-enter. The occupant of the passenger side appears to point a revolver out the window at one point. The grown men entering and exiting the vehicle, nor the shooters throwing their bodies against it, seems to move the body of the vehicle much in relation to the wheels. All that shooting and no glass seems to have broken. Conclusions? I think the tactical mistakes were grave and made by the occupants of the rear seat of the vehicle. They aren't dressed very well, even for a warm tropical climate.

March 26, 2016, 10:07 PM	#15
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	One handed shooting abillity is a must. Being able to change to the support hand is VALUABLE in building searches and one handed ability is needed when using a flashlight ALL the independant flashlight techniques that use both hands are compromises. Better to run the light with 1 hand and the gun with the other. Thats one of the things that make WML's so nice. Both hands on the gun AND able to use the light. TWO hands whenever possible...BUT able to use the gun effectively with one hand when both are not available is one of the marks of a professional. I train to be effective as possible with either hand or both hands. You just never know what situation will develop. I'll never be AS good with my support hand only, that just the way im wired. But im comfortable enough with support hand only shooting and manipulations to change at will thru a situation and keep rounds COM out to reasonable distances in the real world