Ballistic Level 3? panel for car seat back?

[Murby]

Does anyone know of a Kevlar panel made to be attached to the back of a car seat?

Thought of just using a plate carrier vest but not only is it too small (doesn't completely cover the back of the seat), but it would look like something tactical.. and I want to avoid that.

Hoping I can find someone who makes an 18 x 30 Kevlar (Level 3 or better) panel that can be hung from the back of the drivers seat.

I'm fine if it has an organizer built into it, but I don't need an organizer, I need a ballistic shield.

anyone?

[Shadow9mm]

so you need a rapid deploy shield you can store on the back of your seat?

or are you thinking taxi driver trying not to get shot in the back kinda deal?

[rc]

Sounds like it would be of limited value driving away but no protection from the side or to the head/neck. What about kevlar drywall cut to seat profile stuffed under a seat cover?

[TXAZ]

3” of tightly bound (paper-reading-material) magazines will stop most handgun rounds

[Blue Jays]

What is the anticipated "use case" for this approach? For driving a Lyft or Uber ride share?
It would be helpful of OP to share scenarios how protection might be of benefit while driving.

[Murby]

Answering the questions on my application from above:

Shadow: Not a rapid deploy, something that I can strap to the seat semi-permanently to stop rounds from hitting driver from the 6 o'clock position. A Kevlar panel cut to the exact seat dimensions would be ideal, but probably super expensive as a custom thing..

RC: I get that without a hard plate, there is always limited protection, but some protection is better than none. I also plan to put a panel behind the back seat so a round fired from the direct 6 position would have to penetrate all that car, then two kevlar panels.
I'm not building an impervious armored personal carrier, just trying to add a bit more protection for my wife.

Kevlar + Drywall? What's the point of the drywall in that setup?

TXAZ: 3 inches is too bulky and would be noticed as something odd by others.

Blue Jays: Anticipated use is just to provide an extra level of protection from some quack job road rage idiot shooting at my wife as she's driving away. Seems like mental instability is becoming almost commonplace these days. My 2nd thought is that having a ballistic shield in your vehicle could never be a bad thing, regardless of how effective it is. I plan to put a panel on the back of the rear seat as well.

Nothing is going to protect the window area, but something is better than nothing.


Thanks for the replies... anyone know of a place that sells neatly made square panels of a reasonable size and cost?

[Shadow9mm]

Ok based on your needs, I would recommend bulletproof drywall panels. My neighbor is a carpenter and was doing a job at a school and brought some scraps for me to shoot. was about 1/2in thick, looks like a solid panel of woven fiberglass. If you could source a sheet of the stuff you could back both the seats, and even possible open up the door panels to insert some. the panels he had stopped 11, 9mm and 12ga, but not rifle, so about lvl 3a

Don't know if you going to find a ready made product...

Another things to take into considerations it kevlar degrades over time. most vests are only rated for about 5yrs

heres a link to some panels. you might find better options, this is just the first one I found. As i understand it you can cut it with a circular saw and paint it to your desired look.

https://www.dkhardware.com/brixwell-...MaApX_EALw_wcB

they are showing a 4ft x 8ft panel for about $576

[THEWELSHM]

I’m a commercial drywall contractor, the ballistic level of Kevlar shhets depend on the round, we build court houses etc, with ballistic level through 3. We get our panels out of Texas.

If you PM me I can lead you down the right road..

Thewelshm

[rc]

I didn't say drywall. I said, kevlar drywall. It's a product used in place of drywall for building protection.

[Blue Jays]

For your proposed project, what about installing it in trunk mounted just behind the rear passenger seats?

[DT Guy]

Since weight isn't really an issue (you're not wearing it, but mounting it on a solid surface), I'd look at hard armor first; you're going to get more protection for the same amount of thickness out of either steel or one of the new poly's, and can get into rifle-rated armor rather than just handgun rated.

Larry

[ballardw]

Originally Posted by DT Guy

Since weight isn't really an issue (you're not wearing it, but mounting it on a solid surface), I'd look at hard armor first; you're going to get more protection for the same amount of thickness out of either steel or one of the new poly's, and can get into rifle-rated armor rather than just handgun rated.

Larry

And steel doesn't have an expiration date like soft armor.

[Geezerbiker]

Add me as a plus one for recommending steel plate. It's way cheaper too and one can easily afford to get some test pieces to blast away at to make sure it's up to the job.

Steel can also be hammered to shape if you decide to make panels to go inside the doors and if it makes a difference, steel is much thinner...

Tony

[Murby]

Why does Kevlar degrade over time? Isn't Kevlar a type of plastic? I could understand the degradation with body armor being that a person's sweat is generally salty and a bit acidic.. but it doesn't make sense for my application that it would degrade...

Anyone know the reason?

I considered the steel plate idea. There's a scrap metal place on the other side of town that was selling misc sized sheets of AR500 plate.. Well, it wasn't called AR500, it was industrial plate designed for abrasion resistance, but that's what it was.

Been thinking of buying a 1/4 inch sheet of it and using the plasma cutter to cut out the shape of her seat..

Only problem I have with a steel plate is that it would be locked into a singular application (back of her car seat), and wouldn't be able to be removed to carry or put anyplace else.

Hmm.. Its getting to the point where I should just go purchase an industrial sewing machine and buy the raw material.. at least then I could outfit anything I wanted with it.
Still stuck on the whole degradation thing though...

[Shadow9mm]

This explains some

https://www.bodyarmordirect.com/blog...not%20expired.

It would probably be less than ideal in a vehicle due to UV exposure and humidity variation. Heat also tends to speed up things breaking down unless it is a dry heat.

[rc]

one down side of having it in the trunk is it will offer less protection at quartering angles from the rear. The closer to your back the more protection it will give you. But unless you are in an true up armored vehicle the plate may are may not be in the right place and it will slow your acceleration a smidge.

[Shadow9mm]

Ok, my thoughts. Please feel free to fill in with info or vids.

There are 2 scenarios that come to mind. Shooting while driving or getting run off the road and the shooter getting out and approaching the vehicle while shooting, or approaching then shooting.

scenario 1, while driving. I would expect that the shooter would try to pull parallel with the driver as they would most likely be trying to shoot through through their passenger window with the window rolled down so as not to shoot their window. Most people, even when every agitated, default to basic actions and will not shoot through their own windows or windshield, and will roll a window down and and shoot through the opening. Also most people being right handed, will try to shoot across the passenger seat though an open passenger window meaning they would need to be parallel with the drivers vehicle.

Therefore armor behind the seat would most likely be ineffective, where armor in the door panel might catch some poorly aimed shots that when low into the door panel, in a, while driving, type scenario.

Scenario 2, run off the road, or in heavy traffic, is harder. With the shooter getting out of their vehicle it gives a LOT more shooting angles and can really vary, but I would anticipate a quartering angle, a 45 degree with the shooter approach on the drivers side. Most likely, based on the road rage vids I have seen the shooter would approach the drivers window and start banging while yelling before shooting. In this instance armor on the back of the seat, or door panels would be useless as the shooter would have a clear shot through the window avoiding all armor. If the shooter got out and started shooting right away while approaching the vehicle, is what I would consider least likely, while possible, and the only one in which the armor might help.

If it were me. I would want armor in my door panel, and a quick deploy soft shield I could carry. The door would cover the side, and if opened the front quarter of the vehicle. The shield when deployed would cover the rear quarter of the vehicle with the door open, or would offer double protection if it were coming from the front quarter. Or could be pulled up to to cover the window.

As Law enforcement I was always trained that, in a gunfight, a vehicle is a death trap. That in a fight you need to get out of the vehicle ASAP and get a gun into the fight ASAP as the vehicle itself offers little to no protection, and only concealment, not cover. This is also wearing body armor, but there is still a LOT that can go wrong.

As I said, just my thoughts on what I would anticipate in a road rage incident and why. Feel free to critique, refine, or counter them, it is always good to get fresh ideas and perspectives. There are also lots of road rage and road rage shooting vids to watch and learn from. I was watched a few but no where near all of them.

Hope this helps.


P.S. In relation to armor types. Kevlar or fiberglass would be my recommendation as they catch the bullet. Steel armor is great, however if it were on the back of the driver seat or in the trunk, you have to deal with the ricochet issue. If there is anyone in the back seat, if they were not already hit, they would most likely get hit with lead fragments. If in the trunk there is the possibility of it getting redirected into the gas tank. While this would most likely NOT ignite the gas or cause an explosion, it would drain your fuel and leave you stranded.... so I would say NO to steel armor, unless it was on the outside of the vehicle

P.P.S heres a "how its done" vid for how vehicle are professionally armor plated. There are others that I have seen. While not exactly what you need, it might provide some insight, or give some ideas on how to accomplish your goal or protecting the driver.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezjCixEeb3s

[Murby]

Ya, when I was training my wife, I had to use youtube to show her that, unlike the movies, real bullets tend to pass through most of the everyday objects around us, and a car is basically transparent to them.

Its why I passed up several homes to purchase one made of brick.

We spent a lot of time going over what happens when you fire a gun inside a home. A couple pieces of 1/2 inch drywall may as well be two sheets of printer paper. And bullets do not bounce off refrigerator doors.

Apparently, my buddy has an old 1950's (cast iron?) sewing machine his mother left him. He says its a beast that can go through thick leather like nothing. I'm thinking of just buying a bunch of the Kevlar.. maybe 20 layers of it, then another 15 to 20 layers of the UHMW stuff.. add some kind of heavy sunbrella type fabric and it should provide some protection against handgun rounds.

I wish there was something I could use to flatten out the nose of a round before the kevlar layers but I don't think that's going to happen.

Since her seat is at a backwards angle, and I'm going to put this panel on the back of the seat, I'm thinking about suspending it from the top of the seat and just letting it hang like a pair of drapes. I suspect that a round hitting that hanging blanket is going to have a lot of its energy bleed away while it overcomes the inertia of the shield.

[Blue Jays]

What about her wearing a bulletproof vest and heavy leather jacket if threat level is elevated?

[Murby]

We have yet to purchase body armor but its on our list.

[shafter]

The back of the driver's seat is the last place I would consider putting armor. It would be much more useful to put some armor in the door panels.

Or, spend some money on a good driving course.

[generalkenobi]

I am currently developing a product that meets these exact requirements/description. IIIa standard or III upgraded.

[WmMunny]

Originally Posted by Murby

Does anyone know of a Kevlar panel made to be attached to the back of a car seat?

Holy Moly dude, you must be stationed in a war zone. If not, consider moving to a better part of town!