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Old May 15, 2018, 09:45 AM   #26
5whiskey
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Thanks for all the great info. Very helpful
Despite my criticism, I see nothing wrong with having one for the collection. Just not really my cup of tea, but it may be yours.
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Old May 15, 2018, 10:29 AM   #27
Fishbed77
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Honestly, I am not a fan of pistol grip rifles, a big reason I picked up the IZ.
To each his own, but there are many other benefits to converting a Saiga back to its proper configuration, including the ability to get a much better trigger, use more durable and reliable AK magazines, and provide many more options for accessories and customization.
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Old May 15, 2018, 11:09 AM   #28
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Many issues and cost-cutting measures have been noted with the all-US made AKs, and to date, none of them have matched the quality of former Comblock factory-built (not parts kit) rifles (Saigas, VEPRs, Arsenals, etc.). These issues with American-made AKs have included the use of cast front trunnions and bolt carriers, soft steel in bolts, poor tolerances, etc. These are well-documented. I suggest you watch Rob Ski's videos where he tests various US and foreign-made AKs.

You have to remember, these imported rifles, while they may not always be the prettiest, come off lines that make rifles that have to meet rigorous QA standards for military issue.

On the other hand, the all-US made rifles are a consumer product made to reach a price point.
The first gen PSAK had a few minor issues--they have been corrected (mine which I bought over a year ago already has the billet trunion) and Robski himself has given it very good reviews. Whatever..get what ya like. : )
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Old May 15, 2018, 01:49 PM   #29
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I bought a WASR-10 after watching them test it on AK-47/74 Operators Union. The new ones seem to be of a little better quality than the older WASR-10/63's. Mine shot a little right at 100yrds but a small adjustment with my sight tool and it was dead on. With factory iron sights and shooting off a bag I was able to get just over 3" groups @ 100yrds. Ammo was Wolf 122gr hollow point I believe. No regrets on this $649.99+tax purchase. Yeah its alot more expensive than they used to be. What isnt besides AR's?
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Old May 15, 2018, 04:44 PM   #30
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I used to have a MAK90, very nice. Sold it during one of the gun scares and doubled my money. Got an NPAP about two years ago. It came with black plastic furniture. I didn't like the stock and replaced it with an Ace skeleton type. Midwest Industries quick detatch scope mount and a 4x scope. Changed the flash hider too, but I don't remember what kind I have, just looks cooler. Fun gun.
Factoring inflation, I don't think AKs got more expensive, ARs just got much, much cheaper.
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Old May 16, 2018, 11:41 AM   #31
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This conversation has been fun reading--in fact--I'm inspired to go out and send a few.

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Old May 16, 2018, 03:11 PM   #32
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At the risk of seeming to hijack the thread--just got back from some gratuitous AK banging Ahhhh. Shot a bunch of "whatever was lying around" ammo which included federal, tula and some left-over handloads. Most were grouping in the 2" +/- range--but the handloads--which are hornady factory second 123 gr spire points--seem to shoot well out of the PSAK especially when driven by 1680 or CFEBLK, as you can see here.



I can't say enough about Primary Arm's AK 1x4 reddot/scope--it's fabulous for the platform--about the only optic I've ever had that's made in China that I really like a lot.

The gun is entirely stock except for the add-on rail and scope. The gun has only one weakness which is driving me nuts--maybe one of you AK experts can help me with this. The very first shot out of the magazine, after I rack it home--always hits low and away from the rest of the group. The first case ejected is always mangled with a crushed neck, too. Is there an explanation or is this just pure coincidence?
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Old May 16, 2018, 08:33 PM   #33
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Stagpanther, do you have more recoil/flash/bang that first round? Have you tried downloading mags to only half their capacity? Just curious.

My first thought would be to inspect the bullet guide. Any play there? After that I don't know
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Old May 16, 2018, 08:37 PM   #34
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Stagpanther, do you have more recoil/flash/bang that first round? Have you tried downloading mags to only half their capacity? Just curious.

My first thought would be to inspect the bullet guide. Any play there? After that I don't know
I'm actually using "shorty" 5 round mags--maybe high compression from the mag on the first cartridge? I'm still having a hard time figuring out what the difference would be between it and subsequent cartridges cycled--especially the crushed neck thing. Haven't noticed much if any difference in the flash/bang report
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Old May 17, 2018, 11:39 AM   #35
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I ask because a neighbor of mine, years ago now, had his bullet guide come loose. Actually a miracle the thing didn't come off or strip the threads in the trunnion. He had a similar problem and we finally diagnosed that he experienced significant bullet setback from the first few rounds of a fully loaded magazine. We then noticed the bullet guide was loose and could rotate some. Tightened it down and the problem went away. I don't know why it only affected the first round or three in the mag, I am at a loss to explain that. None-the-less, it happened.
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Old May 17, 2018, 01:38 PM   #36
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I ask because a neighbor of mine, years ago now, had his bullet guide come loose. Actually a miracle the thing didn't come off or strip the threads in the trunnion. He had a similar problem and we finally diagnosed that he experienced significant bullet setback from the first few rounds of a fully loaded magazine. We then noticed the bullet guide was loose and could rotate some. Tightened it down and the problem went away. I don't know why it only affected the first round or three in the mag, I am at a loss to explain that. None-the-less, it happened.
Very good suggestion--I actually took the cover off and slow fed a few cartridges to see what would happen. The bullet guide itself is very solidly fitted to the receiver assembly--so it doesn't have any play in it. However--I did notice that the first cartridge out of the magpul magazine seemed to hit the chamber face on the way in--especially bullets that were blunt-nose soft points. Slow-feeding is not the same of course as a fast cycling assembly--but problems were cropping up and maybe point to bigger issues--I don't know since AK's are not "my thing." Notice in the spent cases pictures--which are of federal fusion factory ammo--not my handholds--that he primers have cratered a bit--the crushed case mouth is an example of what happens to every first shot out of the magazine.





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Old May 26, 2018, 05:06 PM   #37
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Django11: Maybe you watched "AK Operators Union" on YouTube? I'm quite aware of pros and cons of some of his evaluations, i.e. the drop test etc.

Who else shoots 3,500, even 5,000 rounds in a specific AK and then shows you a close-up of any premature wear on the bolt lugs, channel and/or trunnions of some AK brands?

Anybody can pull a brand-new gun out of the box, shoot it and declare "It works really good".
This is meaningless until much more ammo has been consumed.

AKOU found that the (post-'08?) WASR 10 and at least several others brands are manufactured with military-grade steel and the assembly has been of high quality.

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Old May 27, 2018, 03:54 AM   #38
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I have a Yugo undefolder with at least 5k rnds thru it...runs great... I suggest going over to th AK Files forum and troll around to see different opinions on nothing but AK's...
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Old May 27, 2018, 11:38 AM   #39
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I defer to the JMB of the USSR.....

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Old May 27, 2018, 04:01 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Ignition Override View Post
Django11: Maybe you watched "AK Operators Union" on YouTube? I'm quite aware of pros and cons of some of his evaluations.

Who else shoots 3,500, even 5,000 rounds in a specific AK and then shows you a close-up of any premature wear on the bolt lugs, channel and/or trunnions of some AK brands?

Anybody can pull a brand-new gun out of the box, shoot it and declare "It works really good".
This is meaningless until much more ammo has been consumed.

AKOU found that the (post-'08?) WASR 10 and at least several others brands are manufactured with military-grade steel and the assembly has been of high quality.
Samples of one are pretty meaningless too.
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Old May 30, 2018, 07:52 AM   #41
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I'm with 5whisky on this one. I can't understand why AK's are so darn expensive right now when I too was buying them for almost half the price of an AR. They're loose and sloppy, cobbled together and accuracy is iffy. Prices would have to come way down before I'd consider buying another one.
Because the AKs of today are not the old worn out import milsurp stuff of yesteryear that were cranked out asap. People are making AKs that are very well built these days and the prices reflect that. Same goes for accuracy, its hard to find a modern rifle these days, beside the bottom of the barrel stuff that isn't very service accurate.

To the O.P. a budget is the best place to start, as with anything of course the higher the better, arsenal, krebs, a rifle dynamics, or even a good ol polytech.

And yes steel ammo is just fine, for all your guns, including AKs.
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Old May 31, 2018, 10:45 AM   #42
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PSA's PSAK47 Zhokov is on sale today for $499. Just sayin.
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Old June 7, 2018, 05:10 PM   #43
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Just to let you know what I decided, a buddy of mine is giving me a killer deal on his AR so I will put the AK purchase on hold for just a bit. It was fun reading about all your input. Thanks
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