12 v 20

ammo.crafter · October 5, 2017, 01:06 PM

Other than the weight and size of the receiver, what is the advantage of one over the other?

After all, a 1oz load from a 12ga and a 1oz load from a 20 both send out a 1oz load of shot. Why lug around all the extra weight of ta12ga?

Rifletom · October 5, 2017, 01:31 PM

My 12's and 20's, three pumps, one S/A, all weight within a lb of each other. I do know this; 1oz shot out of my 12ga, pump or S/A, recoil/kick way less than 1oz shot out of my 20ga guns. BTW, these are all field guns.

NoSecondBest · October 5, 2017, 01:36 PM

A couple of thoughts here: you're assuming everyone is only going to shoot 1 oz. loads? The 12 can be loaded down to 7/8th shot, no problem. The 20 can be loaded up to 1 1/4 shot, no problem. However, the 20 can't be loaded up to 2 oz hunting loads and the 12 can. Also, the weight of the gun absorbs much of the recoil. Many shooters like the extra weight when shooting clay target sports and some recoil sensitive people like the extra weight also. "all the extra weight of a 12 ga is kind of meaningless when a 12 can actually weigh less than some 20ga guns, and some 20ga guns can weight more than some 12 ga guns. You really need to learn more about shotguns, shot charges, and the differences in what they are used for. FWIW, simply getting a lighter pair of boots can save the difference in weight of the shotguns. The gun isn't the only thing you're toting around all day. At the end of the day, no one says you can't choose either based on your knowledge and applications.

FITASC · October 5, 2017, 01:38 PM

The extra weight soaks up more recoil. The pattern from two loads of equal weight but different bore sizes tends to be better from the larger bore. (410 patterns tend to really suck).
The nominal payloads for each bore size are:
12 - 1-1/8
16 - 1
20 - 7/8
28 - 3/4
410 - 1/2

Going to larger payloads than nominal, while certainly doable, doesn't always yield as satisfactorily results. If you like 1 oz loads, you can always look at a 16 gauge built on a 20 gauge receiver.

stuckinthe60s · October 5, 2017, 03:15 PM

less pellets contact the bore in a 12ga bbl from 1oz of lead, than a 20ga. the longer length in the 20ga load causes more deformed pellets. and dont you guys tell me the wad protects them. not all pellets sit inside the wad and regardless, when it all hits the choke, deformity happens.
so....a 12ga shooting a 1oz load trumps the 20ga 1oz load.

jmr40 · October 5, 2017, 03:26 PM

*One ounce of shot through a 12 ga. barrel will have a shorter shot column with fewer pellets deformed by contact with the barrel and give better patterns and more hits than 1 oz of shot through a 20 ga. barrel.

*One ounce of shot through a 7 lb. 12 ga. will recoil far less than 1 oz of shot through a 6 lb. 20 ga.

* They make plenty of 7-7.5 lb 12 ga. shotguns, some in the 6.5 lb range. That is plenty light, and much lighter becomes harder to swing and hit with.

*12 ga shells are easier to find, cheaper, and with far more options than 20 ga.

* If you need more than 1 oz of shot for larger game animals it is a lot easier to make it work with 12 ga. This is especially true with steel shot where you need to go up about 2 shot sizes to be effective. Once you start shooting #2 shot or larger 20 ga doesn't put many pellets in the air.

* On the other hand I find a 6 lb., short barreled 20 ga to be a pretty decent turkey gun. With 3 " shells I can still put a decent number of #6 pellets into a tight pattern. Since I'm aiming it like a rifle instead of pointing like a shotgun the balance isn't as critical. This is where the lighter weight and short barrel are an asset. Plus recoil is a lot less than heavy 3" 12 ga turkey loads.

But for all around use, especially clays or hitting moving game I'll take a 12 every time.

BigJimP · October 6, 2017, 02:46 PM

You are overlooking the fact...that some of us ..
a. just want some 12ga's
b. and some 20 ga's
c. ..and some 28 ga's
d. ..and some 16ga's
e. ...and some .410's.... ( well ok, I don't need more than one .410 )

It isn't always about analyzing the amount of shot in a shell that matters...

osbornk · October 6, 2017, 02:53 PM

I chose 12 gauges because the shells are generally cheaper, more available and there is more selection.

Creek Henry · October 6, 2017, 06:01 PM

For dove the 20 has the advantage of usually being a lighter gun. By EOD, this noticeable. I shoot 1 oz in 20 and 1 1/8 in 12. The dove don't seem to be able to tell the difference. But for the one gun shooter you need a 12 3" gun. Ducks do notice lighter loads

GarandTd · October 6, 2017, 07:09 PM

More variety of rounds for the 12 gauge.

B.L.E. · October 6, 2017, 09:24 PM

With the exception of an 8 gauge muzzle loader, I own 12 gauge shotguns exclusively. It simplifies life, needing only one reloading press etc.
You can load it down to 3/4 ounce for a gun that actually kicks less than a lightweight .410 or you can throw in the heaviest 3" magnum your shoulder can stand and anything in between. You can even buy Aguila mini shells that literally make it equal to a 3 inch .410.

PatientWolf · October 7, 2017, 10:48 AM

12 ga. for more variety of ammunition and lower ammo prices. Also, depending on the firearm, more easy to find accessories such as alternate barrels.

20 ga. for possibly slightly lower recoil.

MarkCO · October 7, 2017, 11:13 AM

Shot column length and pattern density: The 12 has a shorter shot column and patterns better with 1 ounce than the 20. That can make a difference (dead bird vs. wounded bird) in some cases.

I shot 12g from a teenager until just a few years ago. I picked up a 20g barrel for my TC Encore for my boys. Single shot, lighter, easier to carry as they grew up. Sold that barrel last year as they moved up to 12. Then I picked up a Mossberg 20g pump to shoot up the free 20g ammo I had and an Ithaca 37 in 16g because I wanted one, nothing more. I hunt with all three, but mostly the 12g shotguns get the nod, especially if I go with my boys so we all have the same shells.

Fishbed77 · October 9, 2017, 04:27 PM

Quote:

20 ga. for possibly slightly lower recoil.

More often than not, this is the other way around, due to the lighter weight of many 20 ga. shotguns.

Ricklin · October 9, 2017, 05:51 PM

That will change your mind about 20 ga. recoil. It will get your attention.
It's pretty light weight.

As MarkCo above stated the 12 will have a superior pattern, shorter shot string with the 12 gauge. That's one ounce vs. one ounce.

We often forget that the pattern is a 3 dimensional event. Not all those little pellets get there at the same time. The longer shot string of the 20 does us no favors.

We agonize over patterns on the pattern board, thus my little old brain tends to think of the pattern like that piece of paper with all those little holes. Those little holes did not all happen at the same time. There are videos out there of what a shot string actually is thanks to high speed photos. Those photos and videos finally got my head wrapped around what a pattern really is and what it looks like.

bandanabandit1 · October 10, 2017, 08:10 PM

You can walk into virtually any gunstore/outdoor shop in the world and ask for a box of shot shells and will almost always find 12ga.

12 Gauge is probably the most common chambering for a shotgun in the entire world, certainly here in the US.

FITASC · October 10, 2017, 09:08 PM

And 20 isn't far behind. Now for targets and more stationary shooting like driven birds, a 12 is nice. But if I am schlepping uphill all day, I'll take a light 20, or even better, a lighter 28 gauge.

And this one is real nice:

at 6#, 2oz with 29.5" barrels it is nice for all day carrying.........

Creek Henry · October 15, 2017, 11:37 AM

Another field advantage of the 20, i can carry 50 shells with the same ease of 40 of 12

RAEIndustries · October 15, 2017, 11:44 AM

CreekHenry is right and like mentioned before a lot of people prefer the 12 just because of the absorption of the kick compared to the 20

briandg · October 15, 2017, 05:40 PM

A guy once proved scientifically that the twenty patterned far better than the twelve and a longer shot string made hits far more reliable. He predicted that the twelve would be dead, relegated to nothing but pass shooting at waterfowl.

It was written in a gun digest back in the sixties, I believe.

lunger · October 15, 2017, 06:39 PM

Quote:

And 20 isn't far behind. Now for targets and more stationary shooting like driven birds, a 12 is nice. But if I am schlepping uphill all day, I'll take a light 20, or even better, a lighter 28 gauge.

And this one is real nice:

at 6#, 2oz with 29.5" barrels it is nice for all day carrying.........
__________________

I 'd be afraid to schlep that anywhere. Wouldn't want to scratch it. That is one pretty gun.

CockNBama · October 15, 2017, 09:08 PM

"It's a scientific fact that..."

briandg · October 15, 2017, 10:21 PM

The nice thing about scientific facts is that anyone can say it about anything at any time, and people will still believe him.

I know that for a fact, I learned it on the internet.

stuckinthe60s · October 16, 2017, 06:56 AM

i just held a match that had a 50yd trap shoot off. a 20ga made it back to the 50yd line with a 12ga. he knew his gun well enough, that gauge didnt matter. he did very well with 20ga.

briandg · October 16, 2017, 08:43 AM

A good man shooting a 20 with a good pattern who knows wow to lead will always beat a duffer with a 12 who relies on pellet count and lucky breaks.

My dad shot a 20, and honestly, he always impressed me. It's kind of ironic, he taught me, as I grew older, I passed him in every discipline by force of sheer will.

I still couldn't hit a flying hula hoop with a shotgun. I still can't calculate lead.

October 5, 2017, 01:06 PM	#1
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	12 v 20 Other than the weight and size of the receiver, what is the advantage of one over the other? After all, a 1oz load from a 12ga and a 1oz load from a 20 both send out a 1oz load of shot. Why lug around all the extra weight of ta12ga? __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

October 5, 2017, 01:36 PM	#3
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	A couple of thoughts here: you're assuming everyone is only going to shoot 1 oz. loads? The 12 can be loaded down to 7/8th shot, no problem. The 20 can be loaded up to 1 1/4 shot, no problem. However, the 20 can't be loaded up to 2 oz hunting loads and the 12 can. Also, the weight of the gun absorbs much of the recoil. Many shooters like the extra weight when shooting clay target sports and some recoil sensitive people like the extra weight also. "all the extra weight of a 12 ga is kind of meaningless when a 12 can actually weigh less than some 20ga guns, and some 20ga guns can weight more than some 12 ga guns. You really need to learn more about shotguns, shot charges, and the differences in what they are used for. FWIW, simply getting a lighter pair of boots can save the difference in weight of the shotguns. The gun isn't the only thing you're toting around all day. At the end of the day, no one says you can't choose either based on your knowledge and applications. Last edited by NoSecondBest; October 5, 2017 at 02:45 PM.

October 5, 2017, 01:38 PM	#4
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	The extra weight soaks up more recoil. The pattern from two loads of equal weight but different bore sizes tends to be better from the larger bore. (410 patterns tend to really suck). The nominal payloads for each bore size are: 12 - 1-1/8 16 - 1 20 - 7/8 28 - 3/4 410 - 1/2 Going to larger payloads than nominal, while certainly doable, doesn't always yield as satisfactorily results. If you like 1 oz loads, you can always look at a 16 gauge built on a 20 gauge receiver. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

October 5, 2017, 03:15 PM	#5
stuckinthe60s Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2017 Location: Va., Ct., Mo.. Posts: 877	less pellets contact the bore in a 12ga bbl from 1oz of lead, than a 20ga. the longer length in the 20ga load causes more deformed pellets. and dont you guys tell me the wad protects them. not all pellets sit inside the wad and regardless, when it all hits the choke, deformity happens. so....a 12ga shooting a 1oz load trumps the 20ga 1oz load. __________________ Retired Military Aviation Former Member Navy Shooting Team Distinguished Pistol Shot,NRA Shotgun/Pistol Instructor NSSA All American, Skeet/Trap Range Owner

October 6, 2017, 07:09 PM	#10
GarandTd Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2016 Location: Rural PA Posts: 1,639	More variety of rounds for the 12 gauge. __________________ 22lr, 20 gauge, 8mm Mauser, 35 Remington, 30-06, 5.56x45/223, 9mm, 380acp

October 5, 2017, 01:31 PM	#2
Rifletom Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Location: So-Cal Posts: 786	My 12's and 20's, three pumps, one S/A, all weight within a lb of each other. I do know this; 1oz shot out of my 12ga, pump or S/A, recoil/kick way less than 1oz shot out of my 20ga guns. BTW, these are all field guns.

October 5, 2017, 03:26 PM	#6
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	One ounce of shot through a 12 ga. barrel will have a shorter shot column with fewer pellets deformed by contact with the barrel and give better patterns and more hits than 1 oz of shot through a 20 ga. barrel. One ounce of shot through a 7 lb. 12 ga. will recoil far less than 1 oz of shot through a 6 lb. 20 ga. * They make plenty of 7-7.5 lb 12 ga. shotguns, some in the 6.5 lb range. That is plenty light, and much lighter becomes harder to swing and hit with. 12 ga shells are easier to find, cheaper, and with far more options than 20 ga. If you need more than 1 oz of shot for larger game animals it is a lot easier to make it work with 12 ga. This is especially true with steel shot where you need to go up about 2 shot sizes to be effective. Once you start shooting #2 shot or larger 20 ga doesn't put many pellets in the air. * On the other hand I find a 6 lb., short barreled 20 ga to be a pretty decent turkey gun. With 3 " shells I can still put a decent number of #6 pellets into a tight pattern. Since I'm aiming it like a rifle instead of pointing like a shotgun the balance isn't as critical. This is where the lighter weight and short barrel are an asset. Plus recoil is a lot less than heavy 3" 12 ga turkey loads. But for all around use, especially clays or hitting moving game I'll take a 12 every time. __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

October 6, 2017, 02:46 PM	#7
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	You are overlooking the fact...that some of us .. a. just want some 12ga's b. and some 20 ga's c. ..and some 28 ga's d. ..and some 16ga's e. ...and some .410's.... ( well ok, I don't need more than one .410 ) It isn't always about analyzing the amount of shot in a shell that matters...

October 6, 2017, 02:53 PM	#8
osbornk Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2012 Location: Mountains of Appalachia Posts: 1,598	I chose 12 gauges because the shells are generally cheaper, more available and there is more selection.

October 6, 2017, 06:01 PM	#9
Creek Henry Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2009 Location: Dallas Posts: 514	For dove the 20 has the advantage of usually being a lighter gun. By EOD, this noticeable. I shoot 1 oz in 20 and 1 1/8 in 12. The dove don't seem to be able to tell the difference. But for the one gun shooter you need a 12 3" gun. Ducks do notice lighter loads

October 6, 2017, 09:24 PM	#11
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	With the exception of an 8 gauge muzzle loader, I own 12 gauge shotguns exclusively. It simplifies life, needing only one reloading press etc. You can load it down to 3/4 ounce for a gun that actually kicks less than a lightweight .410 or you can throw in the heaviest 3" magnum your shoulder can stand and anything in between. You can even buy Aguila mini shells that literally make it equal to a 3 inch .410. __________________ Hanlon's Razor "Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."

October 7, 2017, 10:48 AM	#12
PatientWolf Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Location: NC Posts: 946	12 ga. for more variety of ammunition and lower ammo prices. Also, depending on the firearm, more easy to find accessories such as alternate barrels. 20 ga. for possibly slightly lower recoil.

October 7, 2017, 11:13 AM	#13
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,307	Shot column length and pattern density: The 12 has a shorter shot column and patterns better with 1 ounce than the 20. That can make a difference (dead bird vs. wounded bird) in some cases. I shot 12g from a teenager until just a few years ago. I picked up a 20g barrel for my TC Encore for my boys. Single shot, lighter, easier to carry as they grew up. Sold that barrel last year as they moved up to 12. Then I picked up a Mossberg 20g pump to shoot up the free 20g ammo I had and an Ithaca 37 in 16g because I wanted one, nothing more. I hunt with all three, but mostly the 12g shotguns get the nod, especially if I go with my boys so we all have the same shells. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

October 9, 2017, 05:51 PM	#15
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,011	Try a 3" in my Stevens SXS That will change your mind about 20 ga. recoil. It will get your attention. It's pretty light weight. As MarkCo above stated the 12 will have a superior pattern, shorter shot string with the 12 gauge. That's one ounce vs. one ounce. We often forget that the pattern is a 3 dimensional event. Not all those little pellets get there at the same time. The longer shot string of the 20 does us no favors. We agonize over patterns on the pattern board, thus my little old brain tends to think of the pattern like that piece of paper with all those little holes. Those little holes did not all happen at the same time. There are videos out there of what a shot string actually is thanks to high speed photos. Those photos and videos finally got my head wrapped around what a pattern really is and what it looks like. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

October 10, 2017, 08:10 PM	#16
bandanabandit1 Member Join Date: April 13, 2013 Posts: 25	You can walk into virtually any gunstore/outdoor shop in the world and ask for a box of shot shells and will almost always find 12ga. 12 Gauge is probably the most common chambering for a shotgun in the entire world, certainly here in the US.

October 10, 2017, 09:08 PM	#17
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	And 20 isn't far behind. Now for targets and more stationary shooting like driven birds, a 12 is nice. But if I am schlepping uphill all day, I'll take a light 20, or even better, a lighter 28 gauge. And this one is real nice: at 6#, 2oz with 29.5" barrels it is nice for all day carrying......... __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa Last edited by FITASC; October 10, 2017 at 09:12 PM. Reason: added pic

October 15, 2017, 11:37 AM	#18
Creek Henry Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2009 Location: Dallas Posts: 514	Another field advantage of the 20, i can carry 50 shells with the same ease of 40 of 12

October 15, 2017, 11:44 AM	#19
RAEIndustries Member Join Date: October 6, 2017 Location: Colorado Posts: 25	CreekHenry is right and like mentioned before a lot of people prefer the 12 just because of the absorption of the kick compared to the 20

October 15, 2017, 05:40 PM	#20
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	A guy once proved scientifically that the twenty patterned far better than the twelve and a longer shot string made hits far more reliable. He predicted that the twelve would be dead, relegated to nothing but pass shooting at waterfowl. It was written in a gun digest back in the sixties, I believe. __________________ None.

October 15, 2017, 09:08 PM	#22
CockNBama Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2014 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 206	Stop me if you've heard this one before. "It's a scientific fact that..."

October 15, 2017, 10:21 PM	#23
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	The nice thing about scientific facts is that anyone can say it about anything at any time, and people will still believe him. I know that for a fact, I learned it on the internet. __________________ None.

October 16, 2017, 06:56 AM	#24
stuckinthe60s Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2017 Location: Va., Ct., Mo.. Posts: 877	i just held a match that had a 50yd trap shoot off. a 20ga made it back to the 50yd line with a 12ga. he knew his gun well enough, that gauge didnt matter. he did very well with 20ga. __________________ Retired Military Aviation Former Member Navy Shooting Team Distinguished Pistol Shot,NRA Shotgun/Pistol Instructor NSSA All American, Skeet/Trap Range Owner

October 16, 2017, 08:43 AM	#25
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	A good man shooting a 20 with a good pattern who knows wow to lead will always beat a duffer with a 12 who relies on pellet count and lucky breaks. My dad shot a 20, and honestly, he always impressed me. It's kind of ironic, he taught me, as I grew older, I passed him in every discipline by force of sheer will. I still couldn't hit a flying hula hoop with a shotgun. I still can't calculate lead. __________________ None.