Is Taurus a respected / Quality Brand?

[JohnKSa]

USAC and Marlin do not make handguns.

Are you actually suggesting that people are less likely to complain about long guns than handguns?

The bottom line is that combined, these companies sell a VASTLY greater number of firearms than Taurus in the U.S. and yet when you add up all their BBB complaints it comes to just a hair more than half of Taurus' BBB complaints.

If you want to limit it to just Ruger and S&W who each alone sell more firearms in the U.S. than Taurus does, then Taurus has about triple the number of BBB complaints of those two combined.

Yes, the numbers are small, but that's because very few people take the time to actually report their complaints to the BBB. That's why you have to look at the RELATIVE number of complaints.

You'll note that I haven't made a single negative comment about Taurus quality or customer service. I just suggested that it might be useful to look at a well-respected indicator of consumer satisfaction. If you'd rather ignore that resource that's fine with me--but don't try to discount it. The numbers are there for everyone to look at.

[JR47]

Yep, it's several times "nedded" some help, sir. I don't believe that anyone doubts that you owned a Taurus pistol some years ago. It's just that the wording of your post indicates a "new to Taurus products" attitude. That was what Razorburn indicated, and I have to agree with him on that point. I'll repeat what I said above, that we cannot read your intent into your words. Your post was indicative of someone considering a Taurus product for the first time, not of someone who has had a previous experience.

Just as a clarification, when I sent my Ruger in for the MarkII recall on firing pins on the P85, Ruger issued me a call tag. When I returned my S&W Model 625-3 for failure after the first round, I had to pay for shipping to S&W. I also had to pay for shipping to Taurus to rebuild my Model 85CH. On all occasions, the weapon was shipped back at their expense. I would have to assume that most manufacturers do the same thing. Usual useage of free repairs doesn't include the means in which it arrives.

This wasn't intended as an attack, just that you'd understand the simple fact that your wording indicated something other than your follow-up. As for spelling, or threats of slander, are you 918v's brother?

[Qwiks draw]

I am not suggesting anything except that hanguns be compared to handguns companies. There is no data base for complaints through the company only and not the BBB. S&w had 5 compalaints over the same 36 month period. Since both numbers are low( yes Taurus has more) still doesn't show a totally horrendous problem. The problems were resolved without court action or something more serious. Taurus did make headway during that in correcting the deficient problems. No, I don't think you are condeming Taurus,but there has to be more hard data to say service stinks.The point I was also trying to make is that Taurus has attempted to deal with problems. All the companies have had their bad moments and corrections were instituted. I am not saying that Taurus hasn't had more than anybody else. They may have problems,but the evidence that most of their service or products are garbage is overwhelming is not there. So maybe it is just better to disagree on a few things and let it go at that. There is hard fact that cerain people show up at the threads and post negative data and have no experience or are making things up as they go along. Such proof has been brought to everyones attentiion as we have had several posters who have been shown to be bogus. This has happened at other threads also.

[JohnKSa]

Why are you working so hard to explain this data away?

It's there. Use it or ignore it. But don't try to say it doesn't mean anything.

All of the tortured arguments you're providing could easily apply to any of the BBB complaints for the other gun manufacturers. Besides, OVER 70% of BBB complaints are resolved--saying that Taurus' complaints have all been resolved is not evidence that there is no problem--only evidence that the BBB is very effective.

...the evidence that most of their service or products are garbage is overwhelming is not there.

Who says that's what I'm trying to prove????

I've seen several reports on the web and have personal knowledge of at least two Ruger QA problems resulting in non-functional pistols. Yet Ruger sells more pistols than Taurus and has ZERO complaints. Why is it that one company (who occasionally puts out problem guns) has NO complaints while another one has 14?

Likewise with S&W--they sell more pistols than Taurus and we all know that some of them have problems. Why do the problems we see on the web of barrels flying out of S&W revolvers and finishes that strip off with common cleaning practices not result in at least as many complaints as Taurus' problems?

The issue isn't that one company is perfect and another puts out garbage. It's not that one has tremendous service and the other won't take customer phone calls. The issue is that EVERY company makes a mistake now and then. Some make few mistakes and some make more. Some are adamant about taking care of the customers and some aren't so customer oriented.

Every BBB complaint is a problem with a product AND a problem with service. You don't call the BBB to tell them your gun is working great--you don't call them because the gun company took care of you when you called with a problem. The company had two chances to not have a complaint registered--not put out a bad gun and not disgruntle the customer they sold the bad product to.

THAT is what the BBB website is telling you and that is why it's not smart to try to explain those numbers away.

You are right about one thing. Taurus has been trying. The last time I checked the site some years ago, there were unresolved complaints.

[Qwiks draw]

JohnKSa. Most of what you wrote in the above post I agree with. If I took some of what you are saying wrong then I messed up. I'm not trying to carry Taurus' water. I interperted some of the info as a direct attack on the company. I get steamed easily after many who have had little or no experience show up and condemning a company. The info on the BBB isn't that pertinent. Taurus has had a ways to go with QC at times. It seemed like you were piling on with other nay sayers. Time will tell if Taurus has their problems licked. As far as Taurus not taking phone calls, the people at the Taurus site with one exception in the last few days seem to feel that they recieved good service. This has also been posted on other forums. When I needed help for a revolver and had a pocket auto question I had no trouble in receiving needed advice and the revolver was back in 10 days.

[razorburn]

JR,
On two occassions I have offered to fax to anyone interested a copy of the invoice of my Taurus purchases! Don't know what more I can do?? Check out Razorburns posts and you will find that he is a college student trying to pass himself as having alot of experience with guns.
In one post he bashes anything S&W but then questions my right to question Taurus quality. That's hypocrisy!!
Maybe when he grows up and graduates on Daddy's dollar, he will go to work for Taurus in customer service.
I've owned,traded, and shot firearms for 40 years! You choose who you want to believe!!

Oh, it's completely different. Try to find and quote 1 post where I've claimed to have a lot of experience with guns as I have with you. In fact, months ago I asked for help quite frequently.

Also, you follow EVERY taurus thread to bash, posting several times in each thread if it doesn't go your way. How many did you make on this thread before I called you on it, contributing nothing each time? 2, 3 posts saying the same bashing thing every time you saw a string of positive experiences get related? If you just made one post stating your dislike for taurus, thats fine. You don't have to make up lies to enforce your point.

The THR post I linked to shows that you were still severly bashing taurus just 5 days before you pretended to be an impartial shopper who was about to buy one in the TFL thread I quoted. That makes it impossible for the explanation you gave in this thread to be true, that you'd been reconsidering based on their new reputation. It proves, without any possible alternative that either you were lying then, or you're lying now. Even you have not attempted to explain that away, since you know it's not possible. Either way, the repute and opinions of a known liar are just about worthless in my eyes.


I only made one, just 1, single, post stating my dislike for smith's political policies. Although I don't like them, I'm not like you, I don't actively seek out every single last smith thread to bash on them like you like to do with Taurus. I especially don't lie and pretend to have had experience with Smith to try to make their guns sound worst than they are.
And I pay my own way through school, thank you, with scholarships and work.

[tom650604]

Taurus is like the new Hyundai/Kia. Very good and reliable products. I heard they were okay when they were new. Now, they have come a long way and had made very good and reliable guns. I use to own PT940SS, PT945, PT909SS, 24/7 45ACP, sold them all due to personal reasons. All shoots well with no hipcups. Currently back in the buying guns business again and just bought a spanking new 24/7 SS 40SW. Shoot as great as the other ones.

Taurus all the way.

[joab]

Maybe when he grows up and graduates on Daddy's dollar, he will go to work for Taurus in customer service.

As I have said before
Look at the intellectual content of the posts by the bashers.
When the argument degrades to this point of non sequitur personal insult there is no further need of discussion.

Razor has proved his point to the point that nothing is left for Bob except diversionary vitriol

This has come, as most bash threads do, to a single point
Those with much experience with the brand like them, those with no, or little experience with the brand hate them.

Draw your own conclusions

[gunmetal]

I don't think you can make such a blanket statement as "Those with much experience with the brand like them, those with no, or little experience with the brand hate them."

I have 2 Taurus firearms, and while I would not call that "much" experience, it's been enough for me to know I will probably never buy another one. (I've posted plenty on my experiences so I won't repeat it here.)

If you like them, fine, and if you don't, fine. I agree that there is certainly plenty of UNwarranted "bashing" going around. But it's not always as simple as a matter of experience. Please be reasonable, there's no need to go off the OTHER deep end of the pool in defending them.

[joab]

I don't think you can make such a blanket statement as "Those with much experience with the brand like them, those with no, or little experience with the brand hate them."

I do
No deep end and your comments in the sdame post support my statements
I have owned Taurus revolvers for over twenty years and have never had an issue with them. I call that a lot of experience

I'll ask again, if Taurus is such an inferior product how have I gotten so lucky with so many of their guns for so many years?

Those with a lot of experience with Taurus seem to like them those without like to bash them
Same thing goes for Hi-Point, Glock and 1911s
The opposite is true of Bryco, Jennings and Raven

[gunmetal]

If you really believe that "Those with much experience with the brand like them, those with no, or little experience with the brand hate them" is all one needs to know about comments about the brand, you're either ignorant or not stating yourself clearly enough.

There are folks like yourself who have had good experiences and thus support the brand. There are also folks (such as dealers, trainers, etc.) who have also had a lot of experience with the line and do not support the brand.

If you want to alter your statement now to something that makes more sense that's fine, but your original comment as stated is not the whole story; please don't pretend that it is.

[IM_Lugger]

I found that people who bash Taurus usually have NO or verry little experiance with them...

[gunmetal]

I have no doubt that there is some truth to that, especially on the message boards. I also do not question the positive experience many have had. I am not arguing any of this.

I am arguing the statement that having a lot of Taurus experience means you will like them, and that the only way you could possibly NOT like them is by not having enough experience with them. This is dismissive and downright silly.

[joab]

OK gunmetal since you seem to have your feelings hurt by my remarks try reading the entire statement instead of the part that fuels your insult.

This has come, as most bash threads do, to a single point
Those with much experience with the brand like them, those with no, or little experience with the brand hate them.

The emboldened section, to anybody not suffering from the ignorance that you try to apply to me, would suggest that I am speaking of this thread and of internet threads in general.

I stand by my comments about this, and just about any other product bashing thread on these forums, those with enough experience to make an educated comment on a product generally like the product, those without make simple minded insults and quips or whine about the observations of others

Draw your own conclusions as to who you want to listen to.

Now instead of whining about what I said or how I said it prove me wrong

At the very least stop the twisty boy routine

This has come, as most bash threads do, to a single point
Those with much experience with the brand like them, those with no, or little experience with the brand hate them.

does not equal

having a lot of Taurus experience means you will like them, and that the only way you could possibly NOT like them is by not having enough experience with them

in any way

[joab]

Using a little of Razor's technique

I have 2 Taurus firearms, and while I would not call that "much" experience, it's been enough for me to know I will probably never buy another one

Had several issues w/ the 145 (feed problems; walking frame pin; collisions between mags and feed ramp). Sent it in, and they do seem to have fixed the frame pin problem by replacing the grip frame. The feed problems, the jury's still out on (need to put more rds thru it). But their "fix" for the collisions was to polish the feed ramp. This is no fix, it's just a "buff out the damage."

Then why do you carry one

I comfortably wear my PT-145 (roughly the same size as your PT-111) at 4:00 in a Crossbreed Adjustable SuperTuck with the clips set to approximate a straight drop (as closely as possible). This works for me even while driving, sitting in a bucket seat.

This thread seems to be full of people who will say something just to say something

[TimboKhan]

My main carry gun is a Taurus 650, and I have never had a problem with it. Personally, I am something of a Taurus apologist, because I have never had a problem with any of the 4 Tauri I have owned (soon to be 5, just put a 1911 on layaway). There were some quality issues in the past. Those issues have been addressed, and for the last 4 or 5 years, Taurus has been pumping out reasonably priced, quality handguns. At least, thats how I see it.

[gunmetal]

joab,

your inferiority complex is really showing through. You seem to be the one who feels insulted and is therefore lashing out, all over disagreement over one of your statements.

I have been through my Taurus experience and do not wish to continue it any further as a result of that experience. I am extremely happy that you and others like you have had positive experiences with them, and I hope you continue to do so. Further, I would be perfectly happy to buy a Taurus firearm again if at some point my confidence in their materials and repairs departments were to improve.

I do not carry mine anymore, and I feel quite happy to have moved on. Nice try, though. And I do have to thank you for pointing out precisely why mine turned out to be completely unsatisfactory. Due to your skillful use of copy and paste, you saved our readers some work... but again, that is not the point of our little disagreement.

You really do need to relax -- it's OK to have one of your statements taken to task. Pointing out a flaw in your reasoning is not the same as brand-bashing, and the more you try to dismiss it as such, more strongly reveals your inability to think. The mature thing to do would have been to clarify it, but sadly, I see you still have quite a bit of growing up to do "upstairs." I can't believe you are getting so worked up over this. I guess you must be one of those "people who will say something just to say something."

If you wish to continue the disagreement, please try your best to stay on-topic and make your point of disagreement more clear. Pretty please? Otherwise we're both just wasting our, and other readers', time.

[joab]

your inferiority complex is really showing through. You seem to be the one who feels insulted and is therefore lashing out, all over disagreement over one of your statements.

Again with the insults?

You tried to twist my words and used the so overdone twisty boy techniques of quoting half a statement to do it.

You really do need to relax -- it's OK to have one of your statements taken to task. Pointing out a flaw in your reasoning is not the same as brand-bashing, and the more you try to dismiss it as such, more strongly reveals your inability to think. The mature thing to do would have been to clarify it, but sadly, I see you still have quite a bit of growing up to do "upstairs." I can't believe you are getting so worked up over this. I guess you must be one of those "people who will say something just to say something."

Nice try but I am not the one that posted half a comment and then tried to twist it.
The mature thing for you to have done was to actually read the entire comment. If you still had problems with th reading comprehension portion of the exercise then you should have asked for clarification instead of implying that I was ignorant.

As far as inferiority complex
I stated my opinion I did not make a feeble attempt to twist another's words to fit my argument, you did that

Since this thread is supposed to be about Taurus quality and not the habits of the Twisty Boy fraternity here at TFL or of people who carry guns that they feel are inferior.
Our conversation is done

My statement is here in living color for all to see and draw their own conclusions

[Huntergirl]

I just don't understand the vitriolic dialogue about a handgun manufacturer. Taurus has been supplying moderately priced handguns for years, to people, who might not otherwise be able to afford a firearm for home security and self defense. For those who can purchase a Kimber without worrying about the rent or house payment, count your blessings. Comparing guns to cars and the models people choose may hone one's judgement "skills", but quite frankly, most people buy what fits into their budget, and many folks can only live from paycheck to paycheck. I'm sure Taurus has had its share of lemons, like other companies, and that has been commented on, but this company fills a nich. And I am glad that it continues to do so. I'd rather granny had a Taurus on the bedstand, than just the bedstand.
One thing I'm seeing is the trend of many gun companies, that started with a simple design and affordable platform, going elitist and up in price, leaving their original customer base in the dust, which includes many people on a fixed income. That's not to say that the quality isn't there in the newimproved models, but what about the first time gun owner or hunter? Thank goodness that some companies do try to continue producing a basic affordable entry model, but many don't. Remington, Mossberg, Stevens, Ruger still offer some affordable models for hunting/self defense for people just starting out or needing a "budget" firearm for home defense or hunting. Highpoint may be the only option for a single mom living in a dangerous neighborhood. Keltec has some affordable options as well. I've thought about all this 2nd amendment stuff and wondered if it really matters, when you can't afford a firearm for self defense. Rant button off now.

[Laserlips]

FWIW:

Okay, here's my personal experience with Taurus pistols.

I traded with a Buddy one time years ago for a Beretta Lookalike PT92. I didn't like it, it had issues with reliability so i traded it back to the same guy. In hindsight the problem could well have been magazine related but i wasn't bright enough to think of that at the time.

I bought a new PT22 when they first came out and it was sheer crap... It went back to the factory 2 times for repairs and when it came back the last time i traded it for something else.

I've often read where Taurus's lifetime warranty is great but you have to send their firearms back for even the most minor fix, and they are not known for speedy returns.

I've read good things about the new PT1911..

It does seem that on most firearm forums Taurus products are treated like "red headed stepchildren", but I don't know why that is.

I've got a pretty good little stash of S&W's/Colts/Sig/Walthers/KelTecs/Bersa/Firestorm/Star/, even a crappy old Galesi and two W. German Burgos that I'm afraid to even shoot, but I have no Taurus firearms..

If the PT1911 continues to impress I might just have to add one to the family when the compact model comes out.



Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

[gunmetal]

joab,

the part of your thread which was not quoted does not change the meaning of the part that was quoted... so that's not an excuse.

Obviously this whole thing bothers you very much, so much that you had to send hate mail via a private message. I feel sorry for you.

Anyways, I really don't feel like participating in this thread for the rest of my life, so I will make my point one more time and hopefully in simpler terms that you can understand, and that may benefit the person who started the thread:

Just because someone has something negative to say about the Taurus (or any) brand, does not necessarily mean that it is because they have no experience with that brand or because they have "an ax to grind," to quote you (I won't bother posting the rest as it may indeed violate forum rules). In fact, there are real human beings out there who have had negative, and in fact really quite pathetic, experiences with Taurus (and others) and their experiences should not be immediately and summarily discounted as "bashing" in a knee-jerk fashion. Your responses here, as well as your private message, indicate to me that you still just don't get that basic principle. The knee is still jerking.

joab, I'm imagining you're smart enough to realize that, but your post (the one to which I originally responded) did not seem to acknowledge this, and I thought it was important enough to point it out. If that was not the intent of your post, then instead of getting your knickers in a twist, you could have just clarified it instead of going on and on about Those Wily Bashers (TM).

Now, that said, I agree that the Bob fellow earlier in this thread certainly appears to be one of those people.

In the general case, most of us on this forum are "on the same team" WRT firearms, politics, laws, and so on, and I believe genuinely try to be helpful. It's important that that help be tempered with realism and with honest discussion. I wish this thread hadn't turned out this way, but as you said, "This has come, as most bash threads do, to a single point."

If you have any more to say about this whole thing that got you so upset, I once again invite you to make your point clearly if it's in disagreement. So far, I still haven't seen you do so, despite repeated attempts to get you to make some sense. I just don't know how many different ways I can keep asking for clarification.

On the other hand, if we already agree about that basic principle, then I don't see what the problem is -- and all I ask is your acknowledgement that there is some legitimacy to some of the claims of problems people have had with Taurus. Again, I'm happy your experience with them has been positive for so long. Congratulations. But this doesn't mean that there's no such thing as a legitimate gripe, and this is not a brand-specific issue.

[joab]

This has come, as most bash threads do, to a single point
Those with much experience with the brand like them, those with no, or little experience with the brand hate them.

the part of your thread which was not quoted does not change the meaning of the part that was quoted... so that's not an excuse

.Yes it does the fact that you cannot understand that explains alot about your need to resort to insults.
I made no excuse, I need none.

Obviously this whole thing bothers you very much, so much that you had to send hate mail via a private message. I feel sorry for you.

What bothers me, as I explained in that PM, is when posters, usually new members, feel the need to twist words to fit their argument only because they need the argument to feel some sort of superiority.

Just because someone has something negative to say about the Taurus (or any) brand, does not necessarily mean that it is because they have no experience with that brand or because they have "an ax to grind," to quote you (I won't bother posting the rest as it may indeed violate forum rules)

And there you go with the twisty boy routine again.
Nowhere have I said that "just because somebody has something negative to say about Taurus they have no experience with the brand"
I said

This has come, as most bash threads do, to a single point
Those with much experience with the brand like them, those with no, or little experience with the brand hate them

Making a negative statement does not equate to bashing, after third grade.
Nowhere did I say that having no experience with Taurus gives you a negative outlook on them. I said

This has come, as most bash threads do, to a single point
Those with much experience with the brand like them, those with no, or little experience with the brand hate them

Having no experience with Taurus should actually give one no opinion on them except what they have read from the bashers who predominately share a lack experience also

The ax grinding comment also has been taken out of context and quoting the rest of the PM would violate forum rules, that is why it was sent as a PRIVATE message as forum rules instruct us to do.
But apparently, in noob fashion, you feel the need to air it publicly and cannot let go f your wrong interpretation of the comment that was actually written in easily understandable language..

You know I actually responded to rest of your post but deleted it as your post is just too simplistic to address.
If you, or anybody else can take

This has come, as most bash threads do, to a single point
Those with much experience with the brand like them, those with no, or little experience with the brand hate them.

And twist that into a blanket statement about all aspects of consumer life and not this and other bash threads as is clearly indicated then you are the knee Jerk, not I.

And since you obviously can not accept the fact that my statement does not equal what you have tried to twist it into, and seem to lack the reading and deductive capabilities to engage in discussion without calling me ignorant (you can check rules on that also) You must now go to the ignore list with the other Twisties, except for a couple of favorites

[Mark Milton]

I used to carry a Smith Chief Special stainless, but had problems with the hammer spur hanging up on every damn thing under the sun like a fishhook....
Prices for Centennials and Bodyguards were like, on the freakin' moon, so I replaced my Chief with a Taurus CIA.
Its every bit as nice as my old Smith, but it has a few improvements.
For one, the trigger is not rust prone carbon steel. For the other, it has a ball peen detent lock on the yoke like an old Triple Lock.
Every gunmaker lets loose a lemon from time to time. Even Colt!

However, when you get a good Taurus, (as I have on more than one occassion) its the equal of a good Smith or Ruger. I have seen far more QC problems on Smiths over the years, and I have no problem admitting it, which is funny as my shooting buddies accuse me of being a Smith and Wesson shill....

[Mark Milton]

Has anybody even seen a Smith and Wesson that looks like a Smith and Wesson any more?
Last time I was in a gunshop the new Smiths I saw looked more like knock offs of real smith and wessons than they did real Smith and Wessons.
for one thing, the L and K frames have some kind of hump on the frame instead of a graceful scallop where the hammer rides. For the other thing, when did they stop machining off that corner next to the frame window?
Don't even get me started on the 'new improved" (buick! buick!) two piece barrells or the MIM parts.
An old Astra from the 80s looks more like a real Smith and Wesson!

Also, if you poke around on these forums a lot, you see a boatload of complaints about the locking system on the new "improved" Smiths. Taurus has put locks on wheelguns longer and i don't recall seeing complaints about them on a monthly basis....

[gunmetal]

"Twisty boy." Mmmmkay, now there's a winner.

Anyways, if you'd actually read the follow-up comment I made (my 2nd post that got you all jibbered up):

'If you really believe that "Those with much experience with the brand like them, those with no, or little experience with the brand hate them" is all one needs to know about comments about the brand, you're either ignorant or not stating yourself clearly enough.'

And, if you can understand the meaning of the word "conditional" then there's no reason for you to have felt insulted, right? It wouldn't even apply to you. Judging by your defensive behavior combined with the fact that you keep pushing your comment that you seem to think possesses some Zen-like quality, I think it's safe to assume that you are either either unwilling to defend it, or unwilling to admit that it was poorly written.

Either A. you really DO believe that statement (in which case you would therefore be ignorant), or B. you do NOT believe that statement, in which case you would not be ignorant (according to that paragraph), but which would call for clarification, instead of childish ranting and making "private comments" where you state the recipient is on an "ignore list" and then wonder why a follow-up is sent in the public forum where the discussion is still ongoing??

Like you, I grow tired of wasting time on this. I'm quite convinced now that all hope for clear thinking is lost on you.

Meh.

Sorry for putting the rest of you through this, although I'm sure it proved quite entertaining for a few more than myself. We now return to our regularly scheduled programming. (After Senor Joab gets in his macho "last word" of course.)