Witloe Precision Inc Remington Revolver

bprevolver · February 12, 2016, 06:52 AM

It has been a couple of years since I last posted about the Witloe 'Grant" and "Lee" Models of the Remington New Model Army produced by Witloe Precision Inc. of Collingdale, PA. I am still interested in finding any of these either 1st or 2nd Generation. From these postings over the years I have found over thirty five of these and RPRCA has been able to add twelve to its collection.

The "Grant" has a steel frame and the"Lee" is bronze. These are almost exact copies of the original Remington New Model Army except the the frame screws go in from the right side instead of the left. This was done deliberately to discourage counterfeiting an original.

Over the last twenty years I seem to be the only person collecting these and the only person who is buying them. People contact me wanting me to buy one or evaluate it. Since I am the only person I know who has actually bought a few of these I have pretty much set the price.

There is a misconception that because something is rare that it is valuable. The value of a collectable firearm is determined by Supply and Demand. The Supply of the Witloe revolvers is pretty much set as to number produced. I had one person contact me about a Lee Model that the owner wanted to auction. I knew of this revolver and had told the owner that I would Insure it for around $1500 but that I did not think that he could sell it at that time for more than $500-$700 if that much. The person who contacted me was merely trying to position himself between me and the owner before he acquired the gun himself. Long story short he bought the gun for $1300. Needless to say he still has it and cannot sell it for anywhere near that price.

I mention this because even though I am interested in finding out where these revolvers are and how many still exist I am also interested in purchasing them if they are unusual. I have paid all the way from $395 to $750. The higher pice ones were cased and 2nd Generation. There were only around thirty five of these produced. I am particularly interested in purchasing the "Grant" Models at this time but want to get info, particularly the serial #, on as many as possible

Bishop Creek · February 12, 2016, 11:10 PM

I have read about these revolvers over the years, but have never even seen a photo of one. Any way you could post a photo of one bprevolver?

PS, glad to see you back on the forums.

bprevolver · February 14, 2016, 06:09 AM

Here are pictures of the Witloe 1st Gen Grant & Lee and three variations of the Witloe 2nd Gen. As previously stated the Grant has a steel frame ahd the Lee has a Bronze (not Brass) frame.

The three variations of the 2nd Gen are a Grant Model with no sights, a 8in Barrel with sights, and a 7in Barrel with sights.

Bishop Creek · February 14, 2016, 12:36 PM

Thank you for posting the pictures. Interesting with the target sight variations. The Witloes really look to be exact replicas of the original Remington, more so than any other makers pistols I have seen and handled, even down to the shape of the trigger guard. Really nice guns.

dmentzer · April 4, 2016, 12:37 PM

I just came across a Lee 44 at the auction house that I catalog guns for. Looks to be 1st generation with fixed sights, imitation plastic stag grips, and serial # 5. It's been used and in fair condition. Email me at [email protected] if you want more info.

bprevolver · April 19, 2016, 04:58 PM

Thank you dmentzer for the info on the Witloe. It has been very beneficial to my research.

Wsh3marine · December 26, 2017, 05:10 PM

I have acquired what I believe to be a Witloe Lee model in box.
I am looking to get some info on it. Found this thread. Anyone having information on these would be appreciated
Thank you

EphraimKibbey · December 26, 2017, 06:20 PM

Hi Wsh3marine and welcome to TFL!

There are many threads here and on other forums where Dr. Davis (aka bprevolver) asks for help researching the Witloes but actual information on them is pretty thin online.

Dr. Davis was in the process of moving his massive collection and trying to find a new site for his web "Museum," http://rprca.tripod.com/ , as well as having health issues the last time he posted a reply to a thread. Somewhere I have contact information for him. When I find it, I will post it for you.

The following are pictures of a Witloe Lee from GB a while back:
pix497879243.jpg

pix700060065.jpg

pix716489651.jpg

Wsh3marine · December 26, 2017, 06:43 PM

Thank you very much for the reply and the pictures.
Mine looks like the pics you sent including the box.
I was trying to find a serial number, but only found a number 26 on the bottom side of the barrel.

Thanks again

EphraimKibbey · December 26, 2017, 07:08 PM

That IS the serial number as only about 35 were ever made!!!

Sadly I do not have pictures of it but a Witloe Grant was sold on GunBroker # 469384975 by "dustyspurs" aka James Parker ([email protected]) and the auction was won by "skyflyer35" a while ago. Maybe Mr. Parker can put you in touch with skyflyer35.

I emailed Dr. Davis about that Witloe Grant at [email protected] in Feb. of 2016 and he responded so maybe he can still be reached at that address.

Let him know you have Witloe #26 boxed and where you acquired it.

Good luck in your quest. Please post anything you learn on TFL so that it adds to our online body of research!

EphraimKibbey · December 26, 2017, 07:39 PM

Here is some information from a Cascity post by drjldavis:

"They were only in business for a couple of years in late 1950's. Went out of business because they couldn't compete with Navy Arms at that time. Totally American made from scratch, no Italian parts. Made what was called a "Lee" and a "Grant" model.
"Lee" had a Bronze, not Brass, frame and the "Grant" had a Steel frame. R. T. Lane bought up all the left over parts, etc. and produced a few in the mid 1960's. These later revolvers are known as 2nd Generation Witloes. Most were target models. I have been posting "want to buy" ads and posted on forums for over 12yrs and received only two replies. One was someone who knew someone, who knew someone who had one. Never found that person. The second was the actual person who bought it at Christy's in the 1980’s for $1500. He was one of the lead attorneys for the NRA. I bought it from him. It was a 2nd Generation target model in cased set. In 15yrs of research I have yet to see one of the 1st Generation Witloe "Lee" or "Grant".

1st Generation were marked: WITLOE PRECISION INC
COLLINGDALE PENNA USA

2nd Generation were marked: WHITLOE
COLLINGDALE PENNA USA

These markings are on the top of the barrel in two rows."

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/ind...c=15489.0;wap2

This post by Dr. Davis gives a phone number but I have not tried it:

http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/showth...ngton-Replicas

Wsh3marine · December 26, 2017, 08:46 PM

Thanks for all the information, I will be sure to send an email and see if he still replies. I checked the barrel on my revolver and it does not have markings on the top of the barrel.
Not sure what generation it is?
Hopefully I can find out.

Thank you

EphraimKibbey · December 26, 2017, 11:18 PM

Here is a post of Dr. Davis' with a different phone number:
http://1858remington.com/discuss/index.php?topic=3006.0

Here is another email:
[email protected]

Hawg · December 27, 2017, 10:13 AM

Dr. Davis is getting on up in years and had two heart attacks a year or so ago.

OzeanJaeger · December 27, 2017, 10:27 AM

I see why you like them!

February 12, 2016, 06:52 AM	#1
bprevolver Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 141	Witloe Precision Inc Remington Revolver It has been a couple of years since I last posted about the Witloe 'Grant" and "Lee" Models of the Remington New Model Army produced by Witloe Precision Inc. of Collingdale, PA. I am still interested in finding any of these either 1st or 2nd Generation. From these postings over the years I have found over thirty five of these and RPRCA has been able to add twelve to its collection. The "Grant" has a steel frame and the"Lee" is bronze. These are almost exact copies of the original Remington New Model Army except the the frame screws go in from the right side instead of the left. This was done deliberately to discourage counterfeiting an original. Over the last twenty years I seem to be the only person collecting these and the only person who is buying them. People contact me wanting me to buy one or evaluate it. Since I am the only person I know who has actually bought a few of these I have pretty much set the price. There is a misconception that because something is rare that it is valuable. The value of a collectable firearm is determined by Supply and Demand. The Supply of the Witloe revolvers is pretty much set as to number produced. I had one person contact me about a Lee Model that the owner wanted to auction. I knew of this revolver and had told the owner that I would Insure it for around $1500 but that I did not think that he could sell it at that time for more than $500-$700 if that much. The person who contacted me was merely trying to position himself between me and the owner before he acquired the gun himself. Long story short he bought the gun for $1300. Needless to say he still has it and cannot sell it for anywhere near that price. I mention this because even though I am interested in finding out where these revolvers are and how many still exist I am also interested in purchasing them if they are unusual. I have paid all the way from $395 to $750. The higher pice ones were cased and 2nd Generation. There were only around thirty five of these produced. I am particularly interested in purchasing the "Grant" Models at this time but want to get info, particularly the serial #, on as many as possible

April 19, 2016, 04:58 PM	#6
bprevolver Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 141	Witloe Thank you dmentzer for the info on the Witloe. It has been very beneficial to my research.

December 26, 2017, 11:18 PM	#13
EphraimKibbey Member Join Date: December 1, 2010 Posts: 23	Here is a post of Dr. Davis' with a different phone number: http://1858remington.com/discuss/index.php?topic=3006.0 Here is another email: [email protected] Last edited by EphraimKibbey; December 26, 2017 at 11:26 PM.

February 12, 2016, 11:10 PM	#2
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 566	I have read about these revolvers over the years, but have never even seen a photo of one. Any way you could post a photo of one bprevolver? PS, glad to see you back on the forums.

February 14, 2016, 12:36 PM	#4
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 566	Thank you for posting the pictures. Interesting with the target sight variations. The Witloes really look to be exact replicas of the original Remington, more so than any other makers pistols I have seen and handled, even down to the shape of the trigger guard. Really nice guns.

April 4, 2016, 12:37 PM	#5
dmentzer Junior Member Join Date: May 25, 2008 Location: PA Posts: 7	I just came across a Lee 44 at the auction house that I catalog guns for. Looks to be 1st generation with fixed sights, imitation plastic stag grips, and serial # 5. It's been used and in fair condition. Email me at [email protected] if you want more info.

December 26, 2017, 05:10 PM	#7
Wsh3marine Junior Member Join Date: December 26, 2017 Posts: 3	I have acquired what I believe to be a Witloe Lee model in box. I am looking to get some info on it. Found this thread. Anyone having information on these would be appreciated Thank you

December 26, 2017, 06:20 PM	#8
EphraimKibbey Member Join Date: December 1, 2010 Posts: 23	Hi Wsh3marine and welcome to TFL! There are many threads here and on other forums where Dr. Davis (aka bprevolver) asks for help researching the Witloes but actual information on them is pretty thin online. Dr. Davis was in the process of moving his massive collection and trying to find a new site for his web "Museum," http://rprca.tripod.com/ , as well as having health issues the last time he posted a reply to a thread. Somewhere I have contact information for him. When I find it, I will post it for you. The following are pictures of a Witloe Lee from GB a while back: pix497879243.jpg pix700060065.jpg pix716489651.jpg

December 26, 2017, 06:43 PM	#9
Wsh3marine Junior Member Join Date: December 26, 2017 Posts: 3	Thank you very much for the reply and the pictures. Mine looks like the pics you sent including the box. I was trying to find a serial number, but only found a number 26 on the bottom side of the barrel. Thanks again

December 26, 2017, 07:08 PM	#10
EphraimKibbey Member Join Date: December 1, 2010 Posts: 23	That IS the serial number as only about 35 were ever made!!! Sadly I do not have pictures of it but a Witloe Grant was sold on GunBroker # 469384975 by "dustyspurs" aka James Parker ([email protected]) and the auction was won by "skyflyer35" a while ago. Maybe Mr. Parker can put you in touch with skyflyer35. I emailed Dr. Davis about that Witloe Grant at [email protected] in Feb. of 2016 and he responded so maybe he can still be reached at that address. Let him know you have Witloe #26 boxed and where you acquired it. Good luck in your quest. Please post anything you learn on TFL so that it adds to our online body of research!

December 26, 2017, 07:39 PM	#11
EphraimKibbey Member Join Date: December 1, 2010 Posts: 23	Here is some information from a Cascity post by drjldavis: "They were only in business for a couple of years in late 1950's. Went out of business because they couldn't compete with Navy Arms at that time. Totally American made from scratch, no Italian parts. Made what was called a "Lee" and a "Grant" model. "Lee" had a Bronze, not Brass, frame and the "Grant" had a Steel frame. R. T. Lane bought up all the left over parts, etc. and produced a few in the mid 1960's. These later revolvers are known as 2nd Generation Witloes. Most were target models. I have been posting "want to buy" ads and posted on forums for over 12yrs and received only two replies. One was someone who knew someone, who knew someone who had one. Never found that person. The second was the actual person who bought it at Christy's in the 1980’s for $1500. He was one of the lead attorneys for the NRA. I bought it from him. It was a 2nd Generation target model in cased set. In 15yrs of research I have yet to see one of the 1st Generation Witloe "Lee" or "Grant". 1st Generation were marked: WITLOE PRECISION INC COLLINGDALE PENNA USA 2nd Generation were marked: WHITLOE COLLINGDALE PENNA USA These markings are on the top of the barrel in two rows." http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/ind...c=15489.0;wap2 This post by Dr. Davis gives a phone number but I have not tried it: http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/showth...ngton-Replicas

December 26, 2017, 08:46 PM	#12
Wsh3marine Junior Member Join Date: December 26, 2017 Posts: 3	Thanks for all the information, I will be sure to send an email and see if he still replies. I checked the barrel on my revolver and it does not have markings on the top of the barrel. Not sure what generation it is? Hopefully I can find out. Thank you

December 27, 2017, 10:13 AM	#14
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Dr. Davis is getting on up in years and had two heart attacks a year or so ago.

December 27, 2017, 10:27 AM	#15
OzeanJaeger Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2014 Posts: 301	I see why you like them!