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Old February 21, 2014, 12:14 AM   #1
tahoe2
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so I'm thinking I should cast some bullets

safety gear is my first priority, so where do I get it,? welding supply? thanks.
also what would be the recommended lead to tin ratio for gas checked rifle bullets @ 2300 fps for deer sized game (BHN 17-20?) does that sound about right?
I'll be loading .311-.312" @ 150 to 180 grains, depending on the mold. I'm loading for an Argentine mauser model 1909

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Old February 21, 2014, 01:23 AM   #2
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http://www.lasc.us/castbulletnotes.htm

Awesomest source of information I have seen to date.

BTW if you are just getting started, I would seriously consider powder coating instead of gas checks. Cheaper, less finicky, aesthetically beautiful. Not long ago I started, and after working out a few kinks, I don't think I will ever lube another bullet.

As I understand it, 2600fps is about where non gc powder coated starts having trouble. You still need to alloy, but you can alloy tensile strength at or *below* peak cartridge pressure with good results and no leading.

But I am far from an expert on the matter. I don't cast rifle bullets.
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Old February 21, 2014, 02:38 AM   #3
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2300 fps is do able, But not to easy for a novice caster.
I would recommend you get your feet wet in the 1700 fps range until you get your procedures and experience all figured out.

2400, RL-7, I4198 are good powders to start with.
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Old February 21, 2014, 12:53 PM   #4
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I don't overthink the safety aspect of melting lead/casting. I don't wear gloves as I don't like the lack of feel when manipulating tools and my mold handles don't get too hot, but some use leather work gloves. I always wear eye protection. Rx work/safety glasses have done me well for umpteen years. I wear closed shoes, good denim jeans, and keep a pan handy if a valve gets stuck. I like a fan to blow smoke away from my face especially when fluxing. Other than that plain old common sense is the best safety tool.

A very good source of info on casting, lubing, shooting lead bullets is Lyman's Cast Lead Handbook (a 3rd Edition if you can find one, but a 4th may be enough).
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Old February 21, 2014, 01:20 PM   #5
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Leather boots, a long sleeve shirt, and safety glasses.
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Old February 21, 2014, 01:22 PM   #6
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I cast outside, but I always wear gloves, closed shoes and eye protection.

And while I always wear eye protection (you'd be insane to skip that, if anything!), I do intend to get one of those clear face shields from HomeDepot or HarborFreight, because sometimes that stuff does splash a little when adding sprues or rejects back to a hot pot. It's amazing how hot a tiny ant-size dot of 740° lead feels on your skin!

It's blisterin' time!
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Old February 21, 2014, 05:47 PM   #7
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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Quote:
also what would be the recommended lead to tin ratio for gas checked rifle bullets @ 2300 fps for deer sized game (BHN 17-20?) does that sound about right?
What type of lead do you have there? {99.9% pure -wheel weight -salvaged- lino} does make a difference to know before hand?
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Old February 22, 2014, 01:33 AM   #8
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Beagle; I hear what you're saying, I already have a face shield and some truck drivers gloves(leather)

as for lead;

I was thinking rotometals, unless there is a cheaper source for ready made lead like Lyman #2, other than running all over town begging for lead, which I'm sure plenty of others have already done.

saw a you-tube video on "baked-on-enamel" bullets, but the missus would never let me in her kitchen to cook bullets

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Old February 22, 2014, 06:40 AM   #9
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Hard to argue with even Beagle there on the equipment. He has it down pretty tight.

Personally I have my pot sitting on the end of an old table we used back when we did woodworking. It is a bit lower than I would really like but hey it works. I usually wear some starched work pants when I pour as the lead slides right off of them. Just like if you were welding. I'm not saying you can pour it on your leg, but the little splatters like Beagle is referring to roll right off like buckshot.

I also wear leather topped boots. I don't like doing the Hokie Pokie period, much less when trying to shake a hot piece of lead off my foot.

I wear a pair of thick leather work gloves which are very pliable and soft. They give me pretty good feeling as to what I am doing and make it very easy to cut the sprues using my right hand. I will tell you this however, don't grab and hold onto the mold even with a gloved hand. The wooden handles are there for a reason use them. The heat soaks in....and when it does, you WILL get rid of everything you are holding onto as your shucking the gloves.

My biggest problem is that I spent a number of years fitting pipe and welding. As such the feeling in my hands is not quite as heat sensitive as most folks. Usually by the time I FEEL it things are well beyond where they should be. So I have to be careful with what I use and how I use it to avoid having issues later one.

As for the face shield, yep I have one and I DO use it when I am smelting more than any other time unless maybe while grinding something. When I dump my cutoffs I put one hand over the pot and dump from the far side so that any splatter is contained by the gloved hand and if it DOES splash it is usually away from me. After you get things going you will find what works for you the best. Just be careful as you go, and pay attention to common sense. If you think it will hurt, it probably will. If you want a simple demonstration, just go fry up a half pound of bacon in just your skivvy's, then figure that the lead will be about three times hotter, and if you slap it when it hits, it smears. Nuff Said.

When you start talking about alloy, well a LOT of different blends will work. You simply have to play with it to find what works best. Similar to the alloy I use for my HP's, a ton of folks use a pure lead to tin alloy. Mine starts off around a 1/3/96, and then I blend in some tin and some pure to bring the tin and antimony into check. I have found that with them being pretty much even, I get a good pouring alloy which has hardness that is needed but is also very pliable and tough. This allows it to expand rather than shatter. That said, I haven't got a clue as to how it will work out with my rifle bullets as I haven't started playing with them just yet. My goal is to start on them sometime this year, but my list of things to get done seems to be longer than the time I have to do them. I have two long range rifles I REALLY need to work up loads for before I get started on the cast loads.

With the link above and with all of the stickies posted on Castboolits there is enough reading there for several years of research, trust me I have been working on it for nearly three and haven't gotten to the bottom of the stack yet. Start out with learning how to check your rifles for fit and function first. Slugging your bore and such are all covered on CB's stickys.

Then research the molds folks have had the best luck with. While your reading through that take notes on the alloy they used as well. Stick with the simple stuff first and work from there. You will be miles ahead, and once you get started things will start to click into place. You will find yourself thinking, hey I need to check on this and be able to go straight to it. This is the benefit of doing the research first. Yes you can ASK about things, but if your not sure what your asking about you will get umteen different answers and none of them might be what your looking for.
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Old February 22, 2014, 02:51 PM   #10
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sureshot; I have nothing yet, going to p/u the Lyman Cast Handbook in a few minutes. I don't have any tools or supplies as of yet, just thought I would ask the guys (you guys) I trust, to point me in the right direction before I blow my money on stuff I really don't need. this adventure requires the voices of the experienced to guide the ignorant. I have been reloading conventional jacketed bullets for more than 25 years but never thought of casting my own till now.
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Old February 24, 2014, 08:25 PM   #11
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When casting I try to protect my eyes & skin. I wear a glove on my right hand. I like long sleeves unless it is hot then I just wear a tee shirt or short sleeve cotton shirt. I always wear long pants which cover my shoes. I've had several blisters but in 40 years only burnt seriously once in that time & that was a hot ingot.
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Old February 25, 2014, 12:06 PM   #12
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Just another hint, whenever you drop that first perfect bullet, no matter how excited you get, don't pick it up! BTDT!
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Old February 25, 2014, 06:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Just another hint, whenever you drop that first perfect bullet, no matter how excited you get, don't pick it up!
AMEN
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Old February 26, 2014, 05:49 AM   #14
Mike / Tx
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That doesn't just apply to the "PERFECT" bullets either, those ugly ones are the ones that get me in trouble.
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Old February 26, 2014, 10:00 AM   #15
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Well Mike that will get me off to a good start today, nothing like grinnin' in the morning.
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Old February 26, 2014, 12:53 PM   #16
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*If it were me* I would skip any "welding" gear. I weld- quite a lot a- and don't bother putting on any of my welding gear for the casting process. Spend the $ on a brinell hardness tester- hard to safely scavenge lead without being able to determine hardness. Especially (!!!) for rifle loading. Again, powder coating allows way softer alloys.

Smelting is where the danger is due to the volume you may deal with. It really doesn't take any kind of thickness to protect you. I've dumped on thin cotton and been fine. Also dumped on bare skin and that was no fun. Footwear is a different story since a puddle can form. I do NOT ever play with molten lead without eye protection and leather boots.

One thing you might consider if you are older like me is that you may know where the "old" shooting ranges are. I recently visited one of these where you used to be able to drive to it until drunken morons lit the forest on fire burning tires and trash. CDF closed the gate and shooters sought greener pastures than take a nice walk to go plinking.

I went out there after a good rain and picked up 26 pounds of range lead in less than half an hour. And to my delight, a significant amount was home cast with a high tin content.
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Old February 27, 2014, 08:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
I don't have any tools or supplies as of yet, just thought I would ask the guys (you guys) I trust, to point me in the right direction before I blow my money on stuff I really don't need
Well that sounds reasonable. Most anyone here can point the way. Out side of lead purchases your other biggest investments can be the furnace and or pot the mold/s & handle/s. Dipper isn't a necessity but it is one of those casting tools that just comes in handy every now and then just like a casting thermometer does also. Once you get over the hump of buying. Then comes the learning of how to go about casting right and safely. So on and so on till you have it down pat. At that point you'll be answering questions instead of asking questions here TFL. But until then I suggest you check into casting furnaces and casting pots for the time being and decide which one would fit your needs.
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Old February 28, 2014, 11:44 PM   #18
tahoe2
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figured I would start small, and see if I think it's worth the time, & patience needed to acquire some skills at it. some take to it, some don't, but I have to try!
picked up a copy of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook, it's some very good reading.
Hunting with cast; a flat (meplat) round point is better than a pointed spitzer, and less velocity is needed.
I have to learn a whole new concept relating to bullets, than what I already know. Cast & jacketed are two different animals this should be fun!!

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Old March 1, 2014, 06:34 AM   #19
Mike / Tx
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You may or may not already know about this, but if not, here is a great read that will help out greatly once you start in seriously working on your rifle boolits,
This is how I do a pound cast.

There is also a TON of info over there listed up in the various sticky's that will guide you down the right path to success, if you spend some time reading up and jotting down a few notes here and there. I don't have any idea how many doc's I have that are cut and pasted tidbits of knowledge that I have gleaned from there and the LASC site.

Hope that helps
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Old March 1, 2014, 07:20 PM   #20
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Tahoe, a while back one of the fellas here (Mike or Beegel, likely) pointed me to a site called "Cast Boolits". What I found was this http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
Its a free guide to casting with some great information. I'm new to casting also and the guy here have been great answering my questions. I do wear leather gloves, but not welders gloves, and eye protection. I never cast in sandals or shorts and wear long sleeved shirts. Did a lot of plumbing in my life, don't like lead burns. Hope this helps
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