Lee 223/5.56 Dies have me stumped. Help!

[GaryC4]

I'm stumped.

I have a Lee classic turret press that I use for 6 different handgun calibers with great success. I recently acquired an AR 15 chambered in 5.56, so naturally I figured I'd add .223 to my reloading bench.

I've got powder, brass, primers, bullets, and the Lee "Ultimate Dies" in 223 Remington. Here's my problem -

There's NO powder through expanding die in the set! It came with:

1. Full Length Sizing Die
2. Collet Neck Sizing Die
3. Bullet Seating Die
4. Factory Crimp Die

I can't believe that I have to decap, resize, and prime, then put each round in a tray to charge, then move back into the press to seat and crimp! Since this is the first rifle round I've ever reloaded I'm hoping I'm missing something. I checked Lee's website and I can't even find a 223 charging die.

What am I missing here?

[surveyor]

You need a rifle charge die if you want to charge with powder on the press
the autodisc will go into it, it won't expand the case mouth, but it will drop powder.
Not sure about the setup with a case operated drum measure.

When not using a powder measure, I have a funnel in the top of mine, and charge the case that way as well.

[Gadawg88]

Here is what you need. It will work with Auto Disk and new Auto Drom powder measure. You will also need the riser if you are using the safety prime on the LCT.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/792...ber-and-larger

And

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/114...-measure-riser

[Marco Califo]

Lee rifle dies do not use the "powder through expander die". Actually, I cannot think of any brand rifle dies that do.
Powder measures can, and often are, mounted directly to multi station presses.

There are adapters available for what you are looking for, I use this one with a Lee PPM:
http://store.gun-guides.com/The-Perf...ures_p_42.html

[Smoke & Recoil]

This is what you need....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/90194-Lee-Lo...QAAOSwYHxWQBks
The expander die is used for cast lead bullets.

[steve4102]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TCd9T_swZA

[GaryC4]

Thanks Everyone! I'm a real newbie when it comes to rifles and I really appreciate the advice.

Merry Christmas everyone!

[849ACSO]

The Lee rifle charging die is sold separately. the same die should do most rifle rounds. I can say I have not had much success with charging rifle rounds on the press. Just not accurate enough for me. I have off the press case prep to do after decapping anyway.

EDIT: When I say on the press, I mean by an auto powder drop. I use the powder thru die, but with a funnel on top to dump a hand weighed charge through.

AND............ Merry Christmas to you and yours.

[jetinteriorguy]

One thing I have found when using the rifle charging die. To help the bullets go in just use a reamer on the inside of the neck, give it a couple of quick twists and your good to go. For me anyway without doing this it seemed like the rifle charging die kind of squeezed the neck down ever so slightly causing the case to scrape a little copper off the bullet jacket when seating. I discovered this when seating cases that had been trimmed and reamed compared to untrimmed and unreamed cases. YMMV.

[Jim243]

This is what it looks like with the powder through rifle die and riser.


Stay safe.
Jim

[emcon5]

And unless you ever plan to get a .223 Bolt gun, you will never use the Collet Die. It is for neck sizing only, and shouldn't be used on a self-loading rifle.

[GaryC4]

Thanks Emcon5, that was my next question! I would normally install the dies (for handgun) in the following order -

1. Resize and decap;
2. Charge and flare mouth;
3. Bullet seating die.
4. Crimp die.

What I'm not understanding in the rifle round process is neck flare... the bullets don't come close to starting in the necks of the brass, so I'm thinking they need to be flared somewhere along the way... right? Where does this happen?

[emcon5]

I have been reloading since the late 80s, and have never flared a rifle case. It is a lot easier to seat boat-tailed bullets, but even flat base work fine without flare.

I also don't crimp, except when loading for my M1. With good neck tension, AR15 doesn't seem to need it. Bolt guns really don't.

[David R]

I use no flare for a rifle case, I chamfer inside and deburr the outside after trimming.

Dillon will charge a rifle case in the press.

[Smoke & Recoil]

@GaryC4,
No flare is necessary for jacketed bullets, just set the bullet on top
of the brass and guide the bullet up into the die while rising the ram,
but be careful not to catch you're finger in there...that hurts.

Bottle neck brass = no flare, accept when using cast bullets
Straight wall brass = slight flare with jacketed or cast bullets.

[sparkyv]

Lee does make a Universal Case Expanding Die as you will need to flare if are going to use cast bullets in your 223Rem.

http://leeprecision.com/universal-ca...nding-die.html

[m&p45acp10+1]

Gary are you loading for a bolt action/single shot, or for a pump action/semi auto?


If for a bolt action, or single shot then use the collet die for brass fired from that gun. Note after a few firing you will need to full length size the brass back down so it will still chamber. No lube is needed for the collet die. I love using it for my bolt action .223 Rem Savage Model 12. Not having to lube, or clean lube off of brass speeds things up a whole lot.

Now if you are loading for a pump action or semi auto then skip the collet die. It is not needed at all. You are going to have to lube the cases. Then full length resize/deprime them. Then prime, then the powder. If you are not going to use the powder through die just drop a powder funnel in the hole. When the round comes up through the hole then line the funnel up, and pour through the funnel. I do this for a couple of rifle rounds as the cavities on the auto disk are not big enough with even the double disk to charge them.

Next is going to be seating. If your seating die will crimp I advise to set it up to seat without crimping. In all the test I have done crimping either had no effect on accuracy, or had negative effects. Also skip the Factory Crimp Die. Not needed at all. If you plan on using cast bullets you will need the expander. If sticking with jacketed bullets then it is not needed, and a wasted expense.

[GaryC4]

Thank you everyone for all the great advice! I think you've answered all my questions, and I really appreciate the help.

Happy Holidays!