Looking Forward -- Gun Choices - Page 2

Pep in CA · July 6, 2016, 07:13 PM

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Nathan.

And I do appreciate the comment by FrankenMauser. He seems to have a lot of experience, which I lack. That is why I started this thread in the first place ... for feedback like his.

I am not adverse to the idea of buying a used, pre-Remington 336 if it is in good condition. I heard Marlin's quality went down after Remington purchased the company, but not so vehemently as FrankenMauser stated. I would be wise to take his advice when I make my purchase decision.

Thanks again to all.

Art Eatman · July 7, 2016, 11:01 AM

Be aware that guns are only a part of the whole hunting shtick. All manner of things to consider: Learning how to walk quietly is one. Another is how to sit very still, imitating a rock or stump. The more time you can spend out in the boonies even without a gun is educational. Sitting and looking from various places in the first and last hours of daylight can teach about critter movement.

For deer, learn about travel paths between bedding areas and feeding areas.

Mid-day, walking hunting can be productive. Kick Bambi out of bed, look him over, and if you want him, be good at a running shot.

Pep in CA · July 8, 2016, 05:30 PM

Art, learning the whole hunting schtick to me is the fun part. Once I have my guns and learn how to shoot them well, hopefully I'll have plenty of time to learn the schtick. (The same goes for fishing, BTW. I don't know a darn thing about fishing, but that topic is inappropriate for a firearms forum).

Cheers.

bamaranger · July 9, 2016, 02:32 AM

I don't see that the 30-30 fills a broad enough role to justify its place in a limited 3 gun (4) battery. One might consider ditching the 30-30 and buying some type of centerfire varmint rig.....sometype of Savage bolt rifle in .223 would be my suggestion.

The .308 could be used on hogs, and the .223 could too in a pinch. About the only way I could rationalize the 30-30 lever (and I am not a basher) is where it's carbine like portability would be an asset, say use on horseback, or from an ATV, that sort of thing. Even then, a short .223 bolt (MVP) might fill the same role.

ArkansasHunter · July 9, 2016, 09:32 PM

Nice, You're at an amazing start with those 3! people will nit pick and say one little thing those 3 cant accomplish, I personally own all 3 that you listed except my savage 11 is in 300 WM but i wish it was .308.

30-30 kills more deer every year then ALL guns combined, its good out to 150 yds. maybe farther if your experienced.

Mossberg 835, very reliable gun and will serve as home defense,

savage 11 in 308 will kill anything in North America, i would personally prefer the model 10 in wood stock with accu trigger and nikon 3x9

30-30 and .308 ammo is every where and cheap.

FrankenMauser · July 10, 2016, 12:04 AM

Quote:

And I do appreciate the comment by FrankenMauser. He seems to have a lot of experience, which I lack. That is why I started this thread in the first place ... for feedback like his.

You're giving me too much credit.
My experience is a drop in the bucket, compared to some of the guys here.
But I do stand by my statements - current-production Marlin 336s are not a good buy. Find a used one. (Even .35 Remington, if you can. Ammo is a little harder to get, but it's a great cartridge.)

Dufus · July 10, 2016, 12:19 AM

FWIW, my choices were the Mossberg Patriot in 308W, the Mossberg shotgun and a slug barrel to go with the bird barrel, and instead of the Marlin 336, I got the Henry H009 in 30-30. All these were for the grandkids. I liked the Henry so much I got me one in 45-70 when they came out with the 22" barrel version.

drobs · July 10, 2016, 01:40 AM

Since you're moving to a free country (state), look into an AR15 once you get there. Flat shooting, light weight, little to no recoil, accurate, + inexpensive ammo.

I live in the Ozarks of Missouri (FYI - cheap land... $1k per acre of less) and it seems like everyone here, including old timer cattle ranchers, are now carrying AR15's for truck guns.

Consider it an addition to your listed guns.

jersurf101 · July 10, 2016, 09:50 AM

I own bolt action rifles from savage, Weatherby, remington, and Winchester. My savage 11 trophy xp in .308 is my most disappointing rifle. It is very particular with ammo. I would steer clear of this line from savage. I have an axis that will shooit circles around my xp. I bought mi,e 4 years ago for $430. I would not pay 550 plus for one. I would go HOWA/weatherby myself. They are the best shooters I have found for the money. the low to mix level savages cannot compare to Those two IMHO.

Pep in CA · July 10, 2016, 09:22 PM

The OP here again, and I hope I don't drag this conversation into the wrong direction, but so many repliers have encouraged me into the .223 AR platform. I have to ask why.

Sorry, but I don't see the .223 round as a practical varmint control round. Rimfire rounds and guns are practical for that purpose. And I don't see the .223 round as a practical hunting round either. Yeah, an AR rifle can be used for hunting, but let's face it, it's an anti-personel gun.

Only if I was a prepper would I consider buying an AR-15 rifle. Then again, maybe I should be thinking so, given the events happening these days, but that is a different story.

FrankenMauser · July 11, 2016, 01:34 AM

Quote:

The OP here again, and I hope I don't drag this conversation into the wrong direction, but so many repliers have encouraged me into the .223 AR platform. I have to ask why.

It's popular, cheap, and a lot of people fall in love with the "adult legos" aspect of the AR-15. (Nearly anything can be removed and/or installed with minimal problems, if any.)

So, they're just offering their thoughts on what might work for you, without actually knowing exactly how you define terms like 'varmint control'.

For example... my own perception of 'varmint control' insinuates mid to long range shots, generally on animals ranging from prairie dog size to coyotes or pigs, with the ability to run centerfire cartridges with few (if any) restrictions. Anything from .223 Rem to, say, .300 Win Mag is fair game.
But if the term is changed to 'pest control' then I start thinking rimfire, due to ricochet, noise, or penetration risks/problems.

If an AR, and/or .223 Rem is not what you want, or not what fits your needs... don't do it.

I have a variety of rimfires. I have a variety of ARs. I have a variety of .223s. And on, and on... They fit my needs, but I doubt this exact combination of rifles would fit anyone else's needs.

bamaranger · July 11, 2016, 07:25 AM

I see the .22lr not as a varmint rifle, but as a "pest" and small game gun. It's great for drilling stuff around the place at minimal noise and , and when you can find it realistically priced, still cheap to shoot for fun and practice. Doesn't tear up small game and so good for pot meat; rabbits, squirrels.

But a "varmint" rifle, to most of us, or me anyhow, means a rifle that will reach 300-400 or more yds with minimal drop, extreme accuracy, and moderate recoil. The .223 is at the lower end of this class of rifle/cartridge, with extreme numbers like the 22-250 and the old .220 Swift being the extreme speedsters. Some folks even like 6mm/.243 as a heavy varmint rig. I don't see a provision in your collection for this class of cartridge/rifle......maybe you are just not interested in that type of rig.

Long before the .222/5.56 became selected for the AR/m16 as a military cartridge, its cousin, the .222 Remington was winning benchrest matches and was the darling of many varmint hunters. The difference between the two is nearly negligible ballistically. BTW, your .308 started life as an "antipersonnel " cartridge as well, to replace its military cousin the .30-06, the predecseeor to the military 30-40,and the military 45-70.

I fear you may have stepped into a deep hole.

Pep in CA · July 12, 2016, 07:48 PM

I am sorry if I have offended any AR rifle owner, but I have to say I have trouble following the reasoning for owning an AR rifle. They are great guns, I have no doubt, but I question their purpose.

I am talking about hunting and folks are steering me towards AR-15s!

A parody on "How Not to Hunt":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbnz1rRE6sE

drobs · July 12, 2016, 11:12 PM

Here's some fellers that hunt with 223:
http://www.predatormastersforums.com...2288856&page=2

Quote:

53gr TSX with 24.5 gr of benchmark. Frontal shot above collar bone, exit on rh side behind shoulder .22 hole goin in.. 22 hole comin out. everything in between was J-E-L-L-O.
The cat dropped like a rock and never twitched.. 155 lb Montana tom shot last January.

http://www.montanaoutdoor.com/2013/0...porting-rifle/

You might also look into a 300 black or 6.8 upper. Plenty of folks killin large game with those calibers:

300 black:

http://shwat.com/TheStories/tabid/85...-Blackout.aspx

6.8:

http://forum.lwrci.com/viewtopic.php?p=94561

6.8 vs Grizzly

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/16..._.html&page=44

FrankenMauser · July 13, 2016, 12:22 AM

I don't think you've offended anyone. They were simply offering advice, in order to help ensure you'd been exposed to some of the more popular and/or cheaper options available.

But, try not to let your preconceived prejudice blind you. Not all AR-15s are created equal, and not all are running .223 Remington / 5.56x45mm.

Most 'non-223' ARs are running a cartridge somewhere between 25 caliber and 30 caliber. But there are some at the 'extreme' end of what can be shoe-horned into an AR-15 style rifle.

This one, for example, is chambered for .475 Tremor (.458 SOCOM necked up for a .475" bullet). It launches the pictured 275 gr bullet (Speer Deep Curl / Gold Dot) at 1,789 fps from a 14.5" barrel (with pinned and welded muzzle brake to meet legal length).
Even coming from a shorter barrel, that bullet carries 51% more energy and punches a hole two to four times larger than .223/5.56.

It's not a long-range firearm, and not really suitable for varmint control. But for my purposes - short range big game hunting - it's a sledgehammer.
When I'm in terrain where I'm likely to have just a second or two to identify and drop an Elk before it will disappear forever, nothing will keep up with the speed and power of the Tremor - not even my custom 'shorty' .444 Marlin (currently needing to have its rear sight reinstalled). The .444 Marlin is capable of notably more power, but it's also heavier, longer, and slower to operate. When it comes to rounds-on-target, the 444 is left eating the Tremor's dust.

(Bad photo...)

bamaranger · July 13, 2016, 02:46 AM

I'm not really offended, but when the term "antipersonnel" came up, the alarm bell sounded.

Lumping and labeling calibers and types of firearms into categories ( such as antipersonnel v. hunting) plays right into the hands of those who oppose our hobbies, pastimes, beliefs and lifestyle. It seems not a far step at all to consider military v. civilian, then appropriate v. unappropriate, then prohibited v. approved.

Perhaps it is the current social and political climate that has made me a bit touchy. My earlier post was intended too call attention to what I considered dangerous terminology and mindset. If I offended anybody, here is a public apology unsolicited and fully intended. All are certainly entitled to own and hunt, or choose not to, any legal firearm they choose.

Pep in CA · July 13, 2016, 06:36 PM

Again, as the OP, thanks for the replies to everyone. I will say this in closing:

I don't intend to buy an AR-15 for hunting purposes, but that is just my preference. Certainly, plenty of hunting tasks can be accomplished with an AR-15. I won't deny that.

However, I cannot shake that I just don't feel a gun with a 16" barrel and a 30 round magazine is a hunting weapon. For me it's a tactical weapon.

And I don't feel I'm prejudiced in that opinion. I would prefer to say I am old school (even though I'm new to the hunting sport).

Also, I don't wish to harm or diminish anyone's right to own an AR-15. I hope I didn't infer that. In that realm, I should be more careful in what words I choose when I state my cases or opinions. Noted.

Cheers, and thanks once more for the replies and advice.

FrankenMauser · July 14, 2016, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Also, I don't wish to harm or diminish anyone's right to own an AR-15. I hope I didn't infer that. In that realm, I should be more careful in what words I choose when I state my cases or opinions. Noted.

Understood.
I think we've all learned that lesson the hard way... one way or another.

And, to be honest, I was very much "anti-AR15" until about two years ago. I had no problem with anyone else owning one. I just didn't want one for myself. Something that 'poops where it eats' just isn't right...
But, then I started messing with them out of boredom. ...And now there's an entire assortment living in one of my safes.

They're fun. They're cheap. They're easy to maintain. They're like 'adult legos' to modify or tinker with. And you don't have to run 30+ round magazines, if you don't want to.
The .475 Tremor is limited to 11 rounds, max (with a "30-round" magazine). But, like most of my other ARs, I typically use 10-rounders (which means 4 rounds in the Tremor).

Even so...
No AR is going to pull me away from my passion for more classic firearms - especially the Marlins.

riggins_83 · July 14, 2016, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Savage 11 Trophy Hunter XP Package in .308 Win

I do agree the Trophy Hunter XP package is a good value, I would recommend purchasing a better base/mount (or a 1 piece such as the DNZ game reaper). Package guns generally don't have well mounted scopes, a combination of cheap rings and no threadlock may ruin a good hunt.

979Texas · July 16, 2016, 06:38 AM

Well Pep, the AR is certainly a tactical rifle. But at least in my neck of the woods hog hunting can be a tactical game. We "engage multiple targets" some sounders around here can be close to 100 pigs but on average are around 12 to 25 pigs. So that 30 round clip has potential to get burnt up on one group.

I pretty much hog hunt on cattle ranches exclusively so it's really just pest control so we "take no prisoners" so the semi auto action is very necessary for when "we got a runner". If you shoot into a pack, they will run and split up so a manual action will just hinder me in my ability to "neutralize the threats" because I will need more than 1 shot if I come upon a group which I frequently do.

I shoot a .300 Blackout in my AR and I love hog hunting with the AR because it's very short and lightweight with excellent and comfortable ergonomics. Most of my hog hunting is done on foot on the move through all sorts of terrain that you can't even imagine so having that short, smooth, light, easy handling rifle offering 30 semi auto shots. You just can't beat that when it comes to hog hunting.

Also so much hog hunting is done at night so nightvision and gunmounted lights are a must. So the AR platform has more aftermarket nightvision, laser, mounts, rails, lights, illuminators, etc. than you can imagine and most of them are easy and quick to install and uninstall. Unlike other "non-tactical" guns that do not all offer this abundance of gear or ease to install it on.

So no offense taken. But hog hunting can be a "tactical" hunt, so why not use a "tactical" gun for the "tactical job". And they are great guns for much more hunting than just hogs. I've taken deer, coyotes, feral dogs, snakes, nutrias, and beavers with mine.

July 9, 2016, 02:32 AM	#29
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,312	but why..........? I don't see that the 30-30 fills a broad enough role to justify its place in a limited 3 gun (4) battery. One might consider ditching the 30-30 and buying some type of centerfire varmint rig.....sometype of Savage bolt rifle in .223 would be my suggestion. The .308 could be used on hogs, and the .223 could too in a pinch. About the only way I could rationalize the 30-30 lever (and I am not a basher) is where it's carbine like portability would be an asset, say use on horseback, or from an ATV, that sort of thing. Even then, a short .223 bolt (MVP) might fill the same role.

July 10, 2016, 01:40 AM	#33
drobs Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2015 Location: South Central MO / Africa Posts: 1,111	Since you're moving to a free country (state), look into an AR15 once you get there. Flat shooting, light weight, little to no recoil, accurate, + inexpensive ammo. I live in the Ozarks of Missouri (FYI - cheap land... $1k per acre of less) and it seems like everyone here, including old timer cattle ranchers, are now carrying AR15's for truck guns. Consider it an addition to your listed guns. __________________ NRA Life Member

July 10, 2016, 09:22 PM	#35
Pep in CA Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2016 Posts: 191	The OP here again, and I hope I don't drag this conversation into the wrong direction, but so many repliers have encouraged me into the .223 AR platform. I have to ask why. Sorry, but I don't see the .223 round as a practical varmint control round. Rimfire rounds and guns are practical for that purpose. And I don't see the .223 round as a practical hunting round either. Yeah, an AR rifle can be used for hunting, but let's face it, it's an anti-personel gun. Only if I was a prepper would I consider buying an AR-15 rifle. Then again, maybe I should be thinking so, given the events happening these days, but that is a different story. Last edited by Pep in CA; July 10, 2016 at 11:20 PM.

July 11, 2016, 07:25 AM	#37
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,312	.22 lr v. .223 I see the .22lr not as a varmint rifle, but as a "pest" and small game gun. It's great for drilling stuff around the place at minimal noise and , and when you can find it realistically priced, still cheap to shoot for fun and practice. Doesn't tear up small game and so good for pot meat; rabbits, squirrels. But a "varmint" rifle, to most of us, or me anyhow, means a rifle that will reach 300-400 or more yds with minimal drop, extreme accuracy, and moderate recoil. The .223 is at the lower end of this class of rifle/cartridge, with extreme numbers like the 22-250 and the old .220 Swift being the extreme speedsters. Some folks even like 6mm/.243 as a heavy varmint rig. I don't see a provision in your collection for this class of cartridge/rifle......maybe you are just not interested in that type of rig. Long before the .222/5.56 became selected for the AR/m16 as a military cartridge, its cousin, the .222 Remington was winning benchrest matches and was the darling of many varmint hunters. The difference between the two is nearly negligible ballistically. BTW, your .308 started life as an "antipersonnel " cartridge as well, to replace its military cousin the .30-06, the predecseeor to the military 30-40,and the military 45-70. I fear you may have stepped into a deep hole.

July 12, 2016, 07:48 PM	#38
Pep in CA Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2016 Posts: 191	I am sorry if I have offended any AR rifle owner, but I have to say I have trouble following the reasoning for owning an AR rifle. They are great guns, I have no doubt, but I question their purpose. I am talking about hunting and folks are steering me towards AR-15s! A parody on "How Not to Hunt": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbnz1rRE6sE Last edited by Pep in CA; July 12, 2016 at 08:01 PM.

July 6, 2016, 07:13 PM	#26
Pep in CA Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2016 Posts: 191	Thanks for the vote of confidence, Nathan. And I do appreciate the comment by FrankenMauser. He seems to have a lot of experience, which I lack. That is why I started this thread in the first place ... for feedback like his. I am not adverse to the idea of buying a used, pre-Remington 336 if it is in good condition. I heard Marlin's quality went down after Remington purchased the company, but not so vehemently as FrankenMauser stated. I would be wise to take his advice when I make my purchase decision. Thanks again to all.

July 7, 2016, 11:01 AM	#27
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Be aware that guns are only a part of the whole hunting shtick. All manner of things to consider: Learning how to walk quietly is one. Another is how to sit very still, imitating a rock or stump. The more time you can spend out in the boonies even without a gun is educational. Sitting and looking from various places in the first and last hours of daylight can teach about critter movement. For deer, learn about travel paths between bedding areas and feeding areas. Mid-day, walking hunting can be productive. Kick Bambi out of bed, look him over, and if you want him, be good at a running shot.

July 8, 2016, 05:30 PM	#28
Pep in CA Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2016 Posts: 191	Art, learning the whole hunting schtick to me is the fun part. Once I have my guns and learn how to shoot them well, hopefully I'll have plenty of time to learn the schtick. (The same goes for fishing, BTW. I don't know a darn thing about fishing, but that topic is inappropriate for a firearms forum). Cheers.

July 9, 2016, 09:32 PM	#30
ArkansasHunter Member Join Date: April 1, 2016 Posts: 18	Nice, You're at an amazing start with those 3! people will nit pick and say one little thing those 3 cant accomplish, I personally own all 3 that you listed except my savage 11 is in 300 WM but i wish it was .308. 30-30 kills more deer every year then ALL guns combined, its good out to 150 yds. maybe farther if your experienced. Mossberg 835, very reliable gun and will serve as home defense, savage 11 in 308 will kill anything in North America, i would personally prefer the model 10 in wood stock with accu trigger and nikon 3x9 30-30 and .308 ammo is every where and cheap.

July 10, 2016, 12:19 AM	#32
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	FWIW, my choices were the Mossberg Patriot in 308W, the Mossberg shotgun and a slug barrel to go with the bird barrel, and instead of the Marlin 336, I got the Henry H009 in 30-30. All these were for the grandkids. I liked the Henry so much I got me one in 45-70 when they came out with the 22" barrel version.

July 10, 2016, 09:50 AM	#34
jersurf101 Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 553	I own bolt action rifles from savage, Weatherby, remington, and Winchester. My savage 11 trophy xp in .308 is my most disappointing rifle. It is very particular with ammo. I would steer clear of this line from savage. I have an axis that will shooit circles around my xp. I bought mi,e 4 years ago for $430. I would not pay 550 plus for one. I would go HOWA/weatherby myself. They are the best shooters I have found for the money. the low to mix level savages cannot compare to Those two IMHO.

July 13, 2016, 02:46 AM	#41
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,312	attention getter I'm not really offended, but when the term "antipersonnel" came up, the alarm bell sounded. Lumping and labeling calibers and types of firearms into categories ( such as antipersonnel v. hunting) plays right into the hands of those who oppose our hobbies, pastimes, beliefs and lifestyle. It seems not a far step at all to consider military v. civilian, then appropriate v. unappropriate, then prohibited v. approved. Perhaps it is the current social and political climate that has made me a bit touchy. My earlier post was intended too call attention to what I considered dangerous terminology and mindset. If I offended anybody, here is a public apology unsolicited and fully intended. All are certainly entitled to own and hunt, or choose not to, any legal firearm they choose.

July 13, 2016, 06:36 PM	#42
Pep in CA Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2016 Posts: 191	Again, as the OP, thanks for the replies to everyone. I will say this in closing: I don't intend to buy an AR-15 for hunting purposes, but that is just my preference. Certainly, plenty of hunting tasks can be accomplished with an AR-15. I won't deny that. However, I cannot shake that I just don't feel a gun with a 16" barrel and a 30 round magazine is a hunting weapon. For me it's a tactical weapon. And I don't feel I'm prejudiced in that opinion. I would prefer to say I am old school (even though I'm new to the hunting sport). Also, I don't wish to harm or diminish anyone's right to own an AR-15. I hope I didn't infer that. In that realm, I should be more careful in what words I choose when I state my cases or opinions. Noted. Cheers, and thanks once more for the replies and advice.

July 16, 2016, 06:38 AM	#45
979Texas Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2015 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 177	Well Pep, the AR is certainly a tactical rifle. But at least in my neck of the woods hog hunting can be a tactical game. We "engage multiple targets" some sounders around here can be close to 100 pigs but on average are around 12 to 25 pigs. So that 30 round clip has potential to get burnt up on one group. I pretty much hog hunt on cattle ranches exclusively so it's really just pest control so we "take no prisoners" so the semi auto action is very necessary for when "we got a runner". If you shoot into a pack, they will run and split up so a manual action will just hinder me in my ability to "neutralize the threats" because I will need more than 1 shot if I come upon a group which I frequently do. I shoot a .300 Blackout in my AR and I love hog hunting with the AR because it's very short and lightweight with excellent and comfortable ergonomics. Most of my hog hunting is done on foot on the move through all sorts of terrain that you can't even imagine so having that short, smooth, light, easy handling rifle offering 30 semi auto shots. You just can't beat that when it comes to hog hunting. Also so much hog hunting is done at night so nightvision and gunmounted lights are a must. So the AR platform has more aftermarket nightvision, laser, mounts, rails, lights, illuminators, etc. than you can imagine and most of them are easy and quick to install and uninstall. Unlike other "non-tactical" guns that do not all offer this abundance of gear or ease to install it on. So no offense taken. But hog hunting can be a "tactical" hunt, so why not use a "tactical" gun for the "tactical job". And they are great guns for much more hunting than just hogs. I've taken deer, coyotes, feral dogs, snakes, nutrias, and beavers with mine.