To Crimp or not LSWC

[BondoBob]

I was able to find these LSWC. There is no cannelure. I see the Lyman manual says not to crimp bullets without a cannelure. However, it also says to crimp all revolver cartridges. Conflicted.

They do distinguish between a roll crimp and a taper crimp. The thing is, these don't have any taper. Should I just lightly crimp them to where I get the correct COL?

Since these are going to be low powered target loads, should I even crimp them at all?

[Carriertxv]

I shoot a lot of those and crimp just enough to take the bell out of the case.

[rodfac]

I shoot a lot of those and crimp just enough to take the bell out of the case.

This is good advice for this particular bullet. Hornady uses very soft, almost pure lead, in swagging this bullet, then impregnates it with some sort of dry lube that is very good. The combination, however, limits velocities to target levels...700-850 fps or so.

I've had no problems with leading and superb accuracy, up to ~850 fps using Bullseye, WST, Unique, & Win 231. I've used both .38/.357 swagged bullets as well as their offerings in .32 caliber. All have been very accurate if velocities are kept down.

As a general rule, with faster burning, target speed powders (Bullseye, Win 231, Accurate #5 etc.), I use the least amount of crimp necessary to keep the bullet from moving during recoil, or while feeding from the magazine in the case of autos. In effect, I'm merely straightening out the case mouth belling. The underlying thought, as I see it, is that crimp damages the bullet to some extent. Less crimp = less damage which helps accuracy.

With slower burning powders, and heavier loads, a heavier crimp is necessary...to keep the bullet from moving during recoil, but also to allow a bit of delay in releasing the bullet, thereby allowing better powder ignition.

HTH's Rod

[mikejonestkd]

Just to mirror the above posts:

The bullets are SOFT, so keep your velocity low. roughly 700 fps is a good speed for target loads
I crimp just enough to take the bell out of the case.

[pete2]

I bought some Hornady lead HPSWC bullets, planned to load max for my 642 revolvers. Bottom line, I crimp to the max. all the crimp my die will do, I still get bullets pulled from recoil. The are not a good match for the Airweight guns. BUT, they are very accurate in spite of the heavy crimp and bullet jump. I tried some in GI cases as they seem to be thicker. Shot 4 shots 3 times, a small amount of pullet pull on the 5th bullet on 1 round. Still don't think it's something I want to depend on. I may have another .38 die to try but I don't think the die is the problem.

[Jim Watson]

I have some ungrooved coated bullets that I put a faint taper crimp on for .38 Special.

Not directly related but just as trivia I had no properly grooved bullets on hand when I wanted to load some magnums but I found these bullets had such a long nose that seated to 1.59" in Magnum brass, I could roll crimp over the ogive without digging into the coating. I'll find out how they shoot today.

[gwpercle]

Very light roll crimp or you can use a taper crimp die from 9mm luger die set to taper crimp bullets with smooth sides . This is what I do ... seat in one step and taper crimp in a separate step . The soft bullet is easy to damage . Put a light taper crimp on the bullet , just enough to hold 5 shots in place but don't crush the soft bullet . Learning to adjust crimp dies is a do and see ...after you get the hang of it you will know ...experience is a great teacher !
Don't push them too hard ...850 fps maximum is what hornady recommends .
2.8 grains of Bullseye in a 38 special case @ 650 fps is a sweet shooting load .
There is also not a lot of lubricant on these so go easy .
Gary

[Nick_C_S]

If it were me, I'd taper crimp them - that's because I have 38/357 taper crimp dies (because I load a lot of plated bullets).

Otherwise, I'd seat them to where the case mouth just surpasses the shoulder, and apply a moderate roll crimp.

[m&p45acp10+1]

I ran 50 in my 686plus with a load of AA9. I crimp them the same as I would if there was a crimp grove. No leading, I also ran some to test the repair on my Colt Trooper MkIII with no leading. If you are running them in warm .357 loads it would be advisable to crimp enough they do not back out under recoil.

Also soft, scmoft. Fit determines how hard one can run a bullet. You will make a barrel look like a sewer pipe if your bullets are under sized with the hardest of bullets. Fit is king of the block. Some powders may require gas checks. Blue Dot, and Hi Skor 800X seem to give me leading where AA9 does not.

[BondoBob]

Well, I don't have a taper crimp die just the 357/38 factory crimp which I guess is a roll crimp. The load I'm using is 700 fps, so I'll go with the light roll crimp and see how it goes.

I think I read one bad review on these on the Midway sight. It stated the diam was 356 not 358, so I'll mic them first and return them if they're undersized.


Thanks for all the feedback.

[44 AMP]

I was able to find these LSWC. There is no cannelure. I see the Lyman manual says not to crimp bullets without a cannelure. However, it also says to crimp all revolver cartridges. Conflicted.

You are conflicted only because you don't understand what they mean, yet...
First, the Lyman manual is, in this case, giving you general advice. And good general advice. There are, however, exceptions and "work arounds".

The advice not to crimp where there is no cannelure or crimp groove is sound, and based on the fact that if you try to bend (crimp) the case and it has nowhere to go (no groove) it will squeeze the bullet, and if its a jacketed bullet, resistance to that pressure can buckle the case.

Now, the specific bullets you show are SOFT. Swaged lead bullets are either pure lead or very close to that. IF NECESSARY, you could roll crimp those bullets and all that will happen is you'll crimp the case into the soft lead.

However, it is NOT necessary. If you need a crimp (and, you might) simply seat the bullet so you can roll crimp over the front edge of the full caliber bottom section.

They do distinguish between a roll crimp and a taper crimp. The thing is, these don't have any taper. Should I just lightly crimp them to where I get the correct COL?

The bullets don't "taper", taper and roll refer to the mechanical way the case is bent inwards "crimping" into the bullet. Taper crimp means the case is gradually squeezed against the bullet tapering over a short length. Roll crimp means the case mouth is "rolled" (bent sharply) into the bullet.

next point, "correct length"; correct length for a .38 Special is anything less than 1.550". If you're using .357 brass its anything less than 1.590"
As long as your COL is less than the listed max, it is correct.

The .38 Special is not a "grenade in waiting" like the .40S&W or a hot 9mm load might be. There is plenty of "extra room" in the case so that SMALL changes in the volume of the powder space are not dangerous with regular loads.

Since these are going to be low powered target loads, should I even crimp them at all?

This will depend on the gun you are using. Even with light target loads, recoil in a revolver tries to pull the bullet from the case. The lighter the gun being shot, the greater that pull. Shoot them out of a S&W N frame or a Ruger Redhawk and you might not need any crimp. Shoot them out of a J frame or Detective Special and you will.

The sure way to tell is to shoot some, uncrimped. Load a full cylinder, and shoot, all but one and see if the bullet moved. IF it did, you need some crimp. If you're shooting a really light gun, best check after each shot,

Do you have a fairly current Hornady manual? if not, get one. I just checked one (7th edition 2007) and they do list a COL for that specific bullet. It's 1.455"

Seat a trial round to this COL. See where the full caliber portion of the bullet is, in relation to the case mouth. If its flush, roll crimp lightly and you should be good to go. If not, roll crimp lightly and you should be good to go. Soft bullet, light recoil force, light crimp even if you are crimping where there's no groove, generally works.

[SHR970]

For these bulets you will find that Hornady has certain caveats in their manuals.

These are soft SWAGED lead bullets. Velocity is kept to 1000 fps or slower and for a good reason. Look at Hornady barrel length and velocity for the big picture.

Crimp: light taper is all that is needed since the powders used arenot hose that require a "heavy" crimp.

These work BEST @ 38 Special velocities: +P is as far as these go.

[44 AMP]

These work BEST @ 38 Special velocities: +P is as far as these go.

You don't even want to push these to +p speeds. My Hornady manual lists top end for these bullets in the 800=850fps velocity range, from a 4" revolver.

They are simply to soft to be driven faster without badly leading the bore.

And don't worry about them being slightly undersized (.356" etc) being so soft, they easily "bump up" from gas pressure filling the bore properly.

The are, essentially the 148gr swaged wadcutter, with a SWC nose profile and adding a little more weight.

[zxcvbob]

Mainly you just want to straighten out the bell at the case mouth. Maybe crimp just a little with your roll crimp die to just barely bite into the lead but not noticeably deform the bullet; they will chamber a little smoother and it *might* help a little with bullet jump (but it won't help much because the lead is so soft.) With copper plated bullets -- don't know if this is relevent -- I get the best accuracy when I crimp just enough to bite into the copper but not cut thru it.

As others have said, those are great bullets if you don't drive 'em too hard.