A fascinating set of "gun alternatives"

Jim March · June 22, 2010, 07:13 PM

This video is a must-see, if only to understand that some "gun alternatives" exist that in some ways rival the power of firearms:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=jOd6r2x-j7I

Even the worst of these (the Chinese pellet-shooting crossbow) is able to drive an 8mm steel ball about 12" into ballistic gel. And loading from an internal mag, it can be fired at a rate of about a shot every five to six seconds if you knew what you were doing. Some have firepower rates in advance of that if you moved...like that slingshot from hell.

A real eye-opener.

Glenn E. Meyer · June 22, 2010, 08:48 PM

That's really cool! Of course, we should ban those assault rubber bands!

That guy who cocked them, probably benches about 350 lbs.

SigP6Carry · June 22, 2010, 09:08 PM

I'm really curious about how it reacts with a couple layers of clothing in front of it. I'm sure it would be a very different story, then.

WvHiker · June 22, 2010, 09:15 PM

I don't know about clothing, but in a pinch that guy has better weapons than sticks and rocks. Much better. It does sort of remind me of "Mad Max" type movies. Pretty cool; thanks for posting that video!

rburch · June 22, 2010, 10:34 PM

Joerg is a good guy. If anyone else on here is a member of the Zombie Squad forums you'll he's a regular in the "other weapons" section showing off his newest invention.

I really like the one he's showing in the OP's link.

But it's downright scary what he can do with a broom stick and a box of condoms.

http://tinyurl.com/yz636f2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkej-peqQDY

BlueTrain · June 23, 2010, 07:38 AM

Those things existed 800 years ago, yet pretty much disappeared when good firearms became common. Even the Indians quit using bows and arrows when they could get their hands on a firearm.

TailGator · June 23, 2010, 07:55 AM

My bet is that concealed carry holsters and cover garments would be a bit of a problem. And of course we have to re-open the debate about carrying with an empty chamber.

Those look like fun toys, in all seriousness. That little "handgun crossbow" as he termed it was my favorite. Still wouldn't want to carry it chambered IWB, though.

Skans · June 23, 2010, 09:00 AM

A couple of things. 1) Was that genuine ballistic gel? How do we know thats what it is? 2) Why didn't the guy at least fire a 9mm or .38 special into that gelatin so that we could see the difference?

tkopp · June 23, 2010, 10:58 AM

It certainly looked like it, but the results can only be compared to one another as ballistic gel needs to be used at 39f and calibrated with a BB shot. He will get significantly better penetration at room temperature.

rburch · June 23, 2010, 11:57 AM

Quote:

A couple of things. 1) Was that genuine ballistic gel? How do we know thats what it is? 2) Why didn't the guy at least fire a 9mm or .38 special into that gelatin so that we could see the difference?

I can't say if it was real ballistic gel, but if he says it was it's at least the stuff you can buy and make from the kits. Not sure if that's real ballistic gel or not.

As to why he didn't shoot it with a pistol beforehand...

I know he isn't in the US, not sure where, but they have pretty strict laws on firearms (and other weapons for that matter, I know he's mentioned that slingshots with a forearm brace are not legal where he is) so I doubt he'd be able to shoot a pistol in his back yard if he can even own a pistol.

I think the main thing to take from Joerg is just how effective and dangerous something as simple as a slingshot can be.

Charles Ellis · June 23, 2010, 02:26 PM

When I was much younger,we had no problem taking rabbits and squirrls with sling shots made with surgical tubing.I think I'd be inclined to use deadly force aginst someone that was shooting at me with a similar weapon.

rburch · June 24, 2010, 10:54 AM

Quote:

When I was much younger,we had no problem taking rabbits and squirrls with sling shots made with surgical tubing.I think I'd be inclined to use deadly force aginst someone that was shooting at me with a similar weapon.

Add in a bunch of rattlesnakes, prairie dogs, skunks, and one really dumb coyote, and that sounds just like the stories my great grandfather used to tell me. Though the ones that really blow my mind are his tales of bird hunting with a slingshot.

I didn't get to shoot with him much (he lived in New Mexico, and i'm in Virginia) but even in his early 90's he could outshoot me.

Guess the main difference is he grew up using a slingshot to put food on the table (along with bows and firearms of course) and to me they are just a fun hobbie.

MikeGoob · June 24, 2010, 01:51 PM

Also, its not clear what distance he is shooting the block from. Is it 21' consistently?

June 22, 2010, 07:13 PM	#1
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	A fascinating set of "gun alternatives" This video is a must-see, if only to understand that some "gun alternatives" exist that in some ways rival the power of firearms: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=jOd6r2x-j7I Even the worst of these (the Chinese pellet-shooting crossbow) is able to drive an 8mm steel ball about 12" into ballistic gel. And loading from an internal mag, it can be fired at a rate of about a shot every five to six seconds if you knew what you were doing. Some have firepower rates in advance of that if you moved...like that slingshot from hell. A real eye-opener. __________________ Jim March

June 22, 2010, 08:48 PM	#2
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	That's really cool! Of course, we should ban those assault rubber bands! That guy who cocked them, probably benches about 350 lbs. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

June 22, 2010, 09:08 PM	#3
SigP6Carry Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2009 Posts: 1,086	I'm really curious about how it reacts with a couple layers of clothing in front of it. I'm sure it would be a very different story, then. __________________ -liberal gun nut = exception to the rule- -1.24274238 miles, because Russians don't need scopes- -Gun control was the Klan's favorite law, how can you advocate a set of laws designed to allow the denigration of a people?-

June 22, 2010, 10:34 PM	#5
rburch Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2007 Location: Blacksburg VA Posts: 750	Joerg is a good guy. If anyone else on here is a member of the Zombie Squad forums you'll he's a regular in the "other weapons" section showing off his newest invention. I really like the one he's showing in the OP's link. But it's downright scary what he can do with a broom stick and a box of condoms. http://tinyurl.com/yz636f2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkej-peqQDY __________________ I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

June 23, 2010, 07:38 AM	#6
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	Those things existed 800 years ago, yet pretty much disappeared when good firearms became common. Even the Indians quit using bows and arrows when they could get their hands on a firearm. __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

June 22, 2010, 09:15 PM	#4
WvHiker Junior member Join Date: March 19, 2010 Posts: 118	I don't know about clothing, but in a pinch that guy has better weapons than sticks and rocks. Much better. It does sort of remind me of "Mad Max" type movies. Pretty cool; thanks for posting that video!

June 23, 2010, 07:55 AM	#7
TailGator Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,787	My bet is that concealed carry holsters and cover garments would be a bit of a problem. And of course we have to re-open the debate about carrying with an empty chamber. Those look like fun toys, in all seriousness. That little "handgun crossbow" as he termed it was my favorite. Still wouldn't want to carry it chambered IWB, though.

June 23, 2010, 09:00 AM	#8
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	A couple of things. 1) Was that genuine ballistic gel? How do we know thats what it is? 2) Why didn't the guy at least fire a 9mm or .38 special into that gelatin so that we could see the difference?

June 23, 2010, 10:58 AM	#9
tkopp Junior Member Join Date: March 12, 2010 Posts: 7	It certainly looked like it, but the results can only be compared to one another as ballistic gel needs to be used at 39f and calibrated with a BB shot. He will get significantly better penetration at room temperature.

June 23, 2010, 02:26 PM	#11
Charles Ellis Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2010 Location: conroe,texas Posts: 200	When I was much younger,we had no problem taking rabbits and squirrls with sling shots made with surgical tubing.I think I'd be inclined to use deadly force aginst someone that was shooting at me with a similar weapon.

June 24, 2010, 01:51 PM	#13
MikeGoob Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2006 Posts: 876	Also, its not clear what distance he is shooting the block from. Is it 21' consistently?