Training for both red dot and iron sights?

Sriracha · May 19, 2023, 11:55 AM

Hi everyone,

I'm thinking of getting a red dot for a full size, home security pistol. However, I want to stick with iron sights for a convenient, pocket-carry .38 and .380.

My worry is that training to focus on the target with a red dot will un-train me from focusing on front iron sights. Does anybody have experience training with both? Or is it better to stick with one type?

Thanks,
- Sriracha

TunnelRat · May 19, 2023, 12:06 PM

I shot irons for many years, then transitioned to red dots a few years back. I can’t speak for everyone, but for myself my iron sight shooting has improved since using a red dot. I don’t find the skills mutually exclusive.

cslinger · May 19, 2023, 02:35 PM

How do you shoot today? I ask because I’ve always shot handguns both eyes open and fairly target focused (yes I do use front sight but still both eyes open).

I ask/say that because I’ve never had issue using a pistol optic or irons but I think the fact that I naturally run both eyes open and more target focused makes that a fairly easy transition for me.

If you are a one eye closed hard sight focus guy you might have a learning curve with optics but I think they will ultimately make you a better irons shooter. The optic will absolutely show you presentation and trigger press failings and help you correct them.

All in all I think folks think too much about this stuff. It’s just another tool/technique to learn. It won’t take away from other things you practice or know. It’s like learning to shoot DA/SA and Strikers. Contrary to popular belief one can actually learn to do both.

.

I actually just got back from the range where my purpose was to run my dot ….
Occluded
Off
Back up irons only
No sights just dot housing.

I ran the back up irons just as well as the dot so no worries you should be fine.

Pahoo · May 20, 2023, 01:18 PM

Quote:

I shot irons for many years, then transitioned to red dots a few years back. I can’t speak for everyone, but for myself my iron sight shooting has improved since using a red dot. I don’t find the skills mutually exclusive.

This has pretty much, been my experience. I actually find the RedDot experience, natural. Not much "training" involved; mostly, believing. Goes without saying that one will handicap themselves if you don't keep both eyes open. .......

Be Safe !!!

Mike38 · May 20, 2023, 05:28 PM

Don't focus on the target with a dot sight, focus on the dot just like you would with the front sight. Just last night I shot a practice 1800 .22LR only. 180 rounds of Bullseye (Precision Pistol) the first 90 with a pistol that has a dot sight, the second 90 with a pistol with iron sights. I shot a 822-15x with the dot sight and a 817-18x with the iron sights. Only 5 points difference between the two. I focus on the dot.

TunnelRat · May 20, 2023, 09:43 PM

The general advice with shooting a red dot on a pistol seems to be a target focus where you superimpose the dot on top of your point of aim. I find staring at the dot artificially slows me down. One of the advantages of using a red dot on a pistol from a defensive standpoint is it’s easier to maintain a target/threat focus. YMMV.

stephen426 · May 20, 2023, 10:18 PM

If your carry is a pocketable .380 or .38 revolver, you are most likely dealing with a fairly small handgun with crappy sights. A red dot negates the short sight radius of smaller guns. I am much more precise with my red dot that I am with iron sights, especailly at greater distances. I used to carry a Springfield Armory Hellcat with iron sights, but bought another one with the Hex Wasp optic. The red dot is a game changer for smaller guns. I can still shoot iron sights just fine with larger guns (longer sight radius), but I am way better with a red dot on my sub-compact carry gun.

Can you lose your skills with iron sights if you only practice red dot? I believe that you can. Just make sure to practice with your iron sighted guns as much as you practice with the red dot. If anything, shooting a red dot can improve your sight alignment with iron sights. You have to present the gun to your eye at eye level in order to see the dot. This may sound obvious, but with iron sights, you can look over the top of the sights and still be fairly accurate. Once you get used to presenting the gun so the red dot is on target, your irons will be dead on every time.

L. Boscoe · May 21, 2023, 07:38 PM

like an old mentor of mine said " it's just like catching the (veneral disease)
you gotta get exposed"
As a fairly serious bullseye shooter, I focus on either the front sight or the
dot, where they are is the target-you have to move to make the target change, just keep the dot or the front sight on whatever is the target.
It doesn't matter dot or iron as long as you do the above.

Sriracha · May 26, 2023, 08:03 AM

Thank you everyone for your insights!
Whether focusing on the dot or the target, it seems that many of you think there will be no problem adjusting to both sights so long as one practices.
I'll have to contemplate the possibility of getting another CCW that can take a red dot, but for now, the sheer convenience and simplicity of a compact pocket-carry J-frame or .380 are hard to beat.

- Sriracha

Pahoo · May 26, 2023, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Whether focusing on the dot or the target, it seems that many of you think there will be no problem adjusting to both sights so long as one practices.

Excuse my correction on some terms or thought but in use, there really is little or no "practicing" or "adjusting", to be made ......

Just super-impose the dot on you target and it's yours. Working together, your eye and mind will get the job done. It is important to keep both eyes open and trust the process. .....

Be Safe !!!

gwpercle · May 27, 2023, 02:23 PM

Not much training with a red dot sight . You put the dot on the target and squeeze trigger ... target is hit .
Iron sights need training ... you have to "see" the rear sight , front sight and the target ... things get real busy trying to "see" three things at once .

Warning during a "serious encounter" you will experience tunnel vision and your brain will zoom in on the "target" ...you won't really see the sights or very much outside that small tunnel of vision ... and don't be surprised by the slow motion ...things slow down to a crawl . Try your best to keep the sights in your vision ... A red dot is easy to see.
Gary

May 19, 2023, 11:55 AM	#1
Sriracha Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2005 Location: GA Posts: 310	Training for both red dot and iron sights? Hi everyone, I'm thinking of getting a red dot for a full size, home security pistol. However, I want to stick with iron sights for a convenient, pocket-carry .38 and .380. My worry is that training to focus on the target with a red dot will un-train me from focusing on front iron sights. Does anybody have experience training with both? Or is it better to stick with one type? Thanks, - Sriracha

May 19, 2023, 02:35 PM	#3
cslinger Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 2,040	How do you shoot today? I ask because I’ve always shot handguns both eyes open and fairly target focused (yes I do use front sight but still both eyes open). I ask/say that because I’ve never had issue using a pistol optic or irons but I think the fact that I naturally run both eyes open and more target focused makes that a fairly easy transition for me. If you are a one eye closed hard sight focus guy you might have a learning curve with optics but I think they will ultimately make you a better irons shooter. The optic will absolutely show you presentation and trigger press failings and help you correct them. All in all I think folks think too much about this stuff. It’s just another tool/technique to learn. It won’t take away from other things you practice or know. It’s like learning to shoot DA/SA and Strikers. Contrary to popular belief one can actually learn to do both. . I actually just got back from the range where my purpose was to run my dot …. Occluded Off Back up irons only No sights just dot housing. I ran the back up irons just as well as the dot so no worries you should be fine. __________________ "Is there anyway I can write my local gun store off on my taxes as dependents?"

May 20, 2023, 09:43 PM	#6
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,035	Training for both red dot and iron sights? The general advice with shooting a red dot on a pistol seems to be a target focus where you superimpose the dot on top of your point of aim. I find staring at the dot artificially slows me down. One of the advantages of using a red dot on a pistol from a defensive standpoint is it’s easier to maintain a target/threat focus. YMMV.

May 20, 2023, 10:18 PM	#7
stephen426 Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Posts: 3,828	If your carry is a pocketable .380 or .38 revolver, you are most likely dealing with a fairly small handgun with crappy sights. A red dot negates the short sight radius of smaller guns. I am much more precise with my red dot that I am with iron sights, especailly at greater distances. I used to carry a Springfield Armory Hellcat with iron sights, but bought another one with the Hex Wasp optic. The red dot is a game changer for smaller guns. I can still shoot iron sights just fine with larger guns (longer sight radius), but I am way better with a red dot on my sub-compact carry gun. Can you lose your skills with iron sights if you only practice red dot? I believe that you can. Just make sure to practice with your iron sighted guns as much as you practice with the red dot. If anything, shooting a red dot can improve your sight alignment with iron sights. You have to present the gun to your eye at eye level in order to see the dot. This may sound obvious, but with iron sights, you can look over the top of the sights and still be fairly accurate. Once you get used to presenting the gun so the red dot is on target, your irons will be dead on every time. __________________ The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!

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May 19, 2023, 12:06 PM	#2
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,035	I shot irons for many years, then transitioned to red dots a few years back. I can’t speak for everyone, but for myself my iron sight shooting has improved since using a red dot. I don’t find the skills mutually exclusive.

May 20, 2023, 05:28 PM	#5
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,663	Don't focus on the target with a dot sight, focus on the dot just like you would with the front sight. Just last night I shot a practice 1800 .22LR only. 180 rounds of Bullseye (Precision Pistol) the first 90 with a pistol that has a dot sight, the second 90 with a pistol with iron sights. I shot a 822-15x with the dot sight and a 817-18x with the iron sights. Only 5 points difference between the two. I focus on the dot.

May 21, 2023, 07:38 PM	#8
L. Boscoe Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2021 Posts: 240	like an old mentor of mine said " it's just like catching the (veneral disease) you gotta get exposed" As a fairly serious bullseye shooter, I focus on either the front sight or the dot, where they are is the target-you have to move to make the target change, just keep the dot or the front sight on whatever is the target. It doesn't matter dot or iron as long as you do the above.

May 26, 2023, 08:03 AM	#9
Sriracha Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2005 Location: GA Posts: 310	Thank you everyone for your insights! Whether focusing on the dot or the target, it seems that many of you think there will be no problem adjusting to both sights so long as one practices. I'll have to contemplate the possibility of getting another CCW that can take a red dot, but for now, the sheer convenience and simplicity of a compact pocket-carry J-frame or .380 are hard to beat. - Sriracha

May 27, 2023, 02:23 PM	#11
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,631	Not much training with a red dot sight . You put the dot on the target and squeeze trigger ... target is hit . Iron sights need training ... you have to "see" the rear sight , front sight and the target ... things get real busy trying to "see" three things at once . Warning during a "serious encounter" you will experience tunnel vision and your brain will zoom in on the "target" ...you won't really see the sights or very much outside that small tunnel of vision ... and don't be surprised by the slow motion ...things slow down to a crawl . Try your best to keep the sights in your vision ... A red dot is easy to see. Gary