Good Article on the Israeli Carry Method - Page 4

tipoc · May 6, 2019, 04:28 PM

Not so...

"Everything else" was the critical part. That the fella did not know how to use a Glock in a panic friendly atmosphere is just a part of a picture of lack of foresight and elementary awareness. That the piece was left in condition 3 is inside a backpack 5-10 yards away ain't exactly "minutia".

Your up to your elbows in blood and guts, in the bears kitchen, with no gun on you, extra bear spray in another back pack, and the gun in a separate backpack. The problem wasn't what condition the gun was in.

tipoc

Rangerrich99 · May 6, 2019, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tipoc

That the piece was left in condition 3 is inside a backpack 5-10 yards away ain't exactly "minutia".

Quote:

Originally Posted by tipoc

The problem wasn't what condition the gun was in.

tipoc

Ah, those are contradictory statements.

However that aside, you obviously are bent on believing what you want to believe, and I don't have a dog in this anyway, so have at it.

Double Naught Spy · May 6, 2019, 04:58 PM

But even not knowing anything more than he knew, had the gun NOT been in condition 3, it would have fired when he pulled the trigger to shoot the bear. So that was a very real problem that occurred at the time.

He pulled the trigger and it did not go BANG. It did not go BANG because it was in condition 3.

tipoc · May 6, 2019, 08:57 PM

As I said and the facts show, it did not matter what condition the gun was in. By the time they needed it, and the bowhunter got to it, a man was the walking dead. That was not due to the condition of the gun but to their lack of preparation for what they were doing and the dangers involved.

They made a decision not the have the gun ready at hand and with a round in the chamber, ready to shoot. But instead to leave it in a backpack 5-10 yards away. They made a decision that the only gun they had only one man was familiar with and not the man who grabbed it. That was a part of their errors.

A string of errors led to the death of a man. The condition of the gun was only a part of that, and a small part.

The official reports on the guides death mentioned some of this and other aspects of the tragedy.

That some don't get that...means something.

tipoc

TunnelRat · May 6, 2019, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tipoc

As I said and the facts show, it did not matter what condition the gun was in.

...

A string of errors led to the death of a man. The condition of the gun was only a part of that, and a small part.

So then it did matter. If it was a part of it then it did matter.

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tipoc · May 7, 2019, 10:43 AM

Ya got me, though I said it earlier that it was a part of it. But folks are splitting hairs. It did make a difference but not the main difference. It was down the line of a string of errors.

It made a bigger a difference that they had only one gun between them and it was a handgun, not a long gun, and it was kept in the backpack and the guide did not show the bowhunter how to use it.

It made more of a difference that they rang the dinner bell for the bears and did not prepare for them showing up.

To focus on condition 3 as the main reason for the death you have to ignore everything else which was actually more important. Folks don't see that I can't help.

tipoc

Glenn E. Meyer · May 7, 2019, 11:45 AM

Enough with bear, please.

Anything new to be said?

kozak6 · May 8, 2019, 03:49 AM

Honestly, no. These sorts of threads don't usually make it past 3-4 pages, which is exactly where we are.

The "two empty chambers in a revolver" was new to me. I've never seen that before.

agtman · May 8, 2019, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Honestly, no. These sorts of threads don't usually make it past 3-4 pages, which is exactly where we are.

Yes, hence the anagramic phrase, 'IBTL.'

Quote:

The "two empty chambers in a revolver" was new to me. I've never seen that before.

That's because no advocates for that carry-method who actually got into a gunfight survived.

They've long since been buried; however, rest assured that if they were so blessed as to get a 're-do' (ala 'Ground Hog Day'), they'd be carrying their wheelgun with ALL cylinders loaded.

DaleA · May 8, 2019, 04:48 PM

Quote:

The "two empty chambers in a revolver" was new to me. I've never seen that before.

Yeah. Me neither.

At that point why not just Barney Fife it and carry your one round in your left front shirt pocket. Maybe we could call that the "Mayberry Carry" and discuss it at length.

(I'm guessing this post will be enough to get this thread closed.)

Glenn E. Meyer · May 8, 2019, 04:50 PM

A winner !

Mayberry Carry.

Definition - law enforcement thinks you are too much of a klutz to have a loaded gun and more than one round.

A great place to close!!

May 6, 2019, 04:28 PM	#76
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	Not so... "Everything else" was the critical part. That the fella did not know how to use a Glock in a panic friendly atmosphere is just a part of a picture of lack of foresight and elementary awareness. That the piece was left in condition 3 is inside a backpack 5-10 yards away ain't exactly "minutia". Your up to your elbows in blood and guts, in the bears kitchen, with no gun on you, extra bear spray in another back pack, and the gun in a separate backpack. The problem wasn't what condition the gun was in. tipoc __________________ 1. All guns are always loaded. 2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to shoot. 4. Identify your target and know what is beyond it.

May 6, 2019, 04:58 PM	#78
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	But even not knowing anything more than he knew, had the gun NOT been in condition 3, it would have fired when he pulled the trigger to shoot the bear. So that was a very real problem that occurred at the time. He pulled the trigger and it did not go BANG. It did not go BANG because it was in condition 3. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

May 6, 2019, 08:57 PM	#79
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	As I said and the facts show, it did not matter what condition the gun was in. By the time they needed it, and the bowhunter got to it, a man was the walking dead. That was not due to the condition of the gun but to their lack of preparation for what they were doing and the dangers involved. They made a decision not the have the gun ready at hand and with a round in the chamber, ready to shoot. But instead to leave it in a backpack 5-10 yards away. They made a decision that the only gun they had only one man was familiar with and not the man who grabbed it. That was a part of their errors. A string of errors led to the death of a man. The condition of the gun was only a part of that, and a small part. The official reports on the guides death mentioned some of this and other aspects of the tragedy. That some don't get that...means something. tipoc __________________ 1. All guns are always loaded. 2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to shoot. 4. Identify your target and know what is beyond it.

May 7, 2019, 10:43 AM	#81
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	Ya got me, though I said it earlier that it was a part of it. But folks are splitting hairs. It did make a difference but not the main difference. It was down the line of a string of errors. It made a bigger a difference that they had only one gun between them and it was a handgun, not a long gun, and it was kept in the backpack and the guide did not show the bowhunter how to use it. It made more of a difference that they rang the dinner bell for the bears and did not prepare for them showing up. To focus on condition 3 as the main reason for the death you have to ignore everything else which was actually more important. Folks don't see that I can't help. tipoc __________________ 1. All guns are always loaded. 2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to shoot. 4. Identify your target and know what is beyond it.

May 7, 2019, 11:45 AM	#82
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Enough with bear, please. Anything new to be said? __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

May 8, 2019, 03:49 AM	#83
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	Honestly, no. These sorts of threads don't usually make it past 3-4 pages, which is exactly where we are. The "two empty chambers in a revolver" was new to me. I've never seen that before.

May 8, 2019, 04:50 PM	#86
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	A winner ! Mayberry Carry. Definition - law enforcement thinks you are too much of a klutz to have a loaded gun and more than one round. A great place to close!! __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens